19:56:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webfonts
19:56:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webfonts-irc
19:56:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:56:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webfonts
19:56:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
19:56:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
19:56:14 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
19:56:14 <trackbot> Date: 22 April 2015
20:00:16 <jfkthame> jfkthame has joined #webfonts
20:00:17 <Vlad> zakim, this is 3668
20:00:17 <Zakim> ok, Vlad; that matches IA_Fonts()4:00PM
20:00:25 <Zakim> +jfkthame
20:00:27 <RSheeter> RSheeter has joined #webfonts
20:00:27 <Vlad> zakim, who is here?
20:00:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1, Vlad, jfkthame
20:00:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see RSheeter, jfkthame, Zakim, RRSAgent, Vlad, trackbot
20:00:47 <kuettel> kuettel has joined #webfonts
20:01:24 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #webfonts
20:01:34 <KhaledHosny> KhaledHosny has joined #webfonts
20:02:21 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:02:33 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
20:02:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webfonts-irc#T20-02-33
20:03:43 <Zakim> -ChrisL
20:03:58 <RSheeter> if I scribe I fear you will hear my typing given how I setup hangouts
20:05:31 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:06:39 <ChrisL> scribenick: ChrisL
20:07:19 <ChrisL> chair: Vlad
20:07:50 <ChrisL> Vlad: we have a couple of comments following the publication
20:08:02 <ChrisL> ... one was typo, now fixed
20:08:36 <ChrisL> ... second was impl and how it handles a condition, not a spec issue
20:08:44 <ChrisL> ... resolved as no change
20:09:16 <ChrisL> Vlad: who updates the Google implementation?
20:09:26 <ChrisL> RSheeter: me, then I delegate depending
20:10:39 <ChrisL> topic: conformance test suite
20:11:22 <ChrisL> Vlad: reviewed test plan, added all the new conformance items that were related to font collections and also the glyf and loca stuff
20:11:27 <ChrisL> https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-Format
20:11:44 <ChrisL> https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-AuthoringTool
20:11:56 <ChrisL> https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent
20:13:21 <ChrisL> ChrisL: prefer we adopt the ednote suggestion for http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF2/spec/#conform-mustSpecifyGlyfTableSize
20:13:58 <ChrisL> ChrisL: it should say "this is the size in the original font" and make not promises abot how big the reconstruction ends up
20:14:09 <ChrisL> Vlad: and then no test needed
20:14:31 <ChrisL> ChrisL: it would become an authoring tool test
20:15:17 <ChrisL> Vlad: straw poll - remove test on size of reconstructed glyph table? not practical to test
20:15:34 <ChrisL> RSheeter: remove it
20:16:06 <ChrisL> action: vlad to remove the #conform-mustSpecifyGlyfTableSize requirement and ed note
20:16:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-173 - Remove the #conform-mustspecifyglyftablesize requirement and ed note [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2015-04-29].
20:16:17 <ChrisL> kuettel: agree
20:16:48 <RSheeter> I think that was me and Khaled not Kuettel
20:17:01 <ChrisL> ChrisL: easy as an authoring tool test. MUST be same
20:17:18 <ChrisL> Vlad: but then why not for all the other tables
20:17:46 <ChrisL> ok never mind then, no conformance on that
20:17:50 <j_hudson> j_hudson has joined #webfonts
20:18:03 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
20:18:03 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webfonts-irc#T20-18-03
20:18:30 <Zakim> + +1.250.668.aaaa
20:19:00 <ChrisL> RRSAgent, aaaa is j_hudson
20:19:00 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'aaaa is j_hudson', ChrisL.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
20:19:11 <ChrisL> zakim, aaaa is j_hudson
20:19:11 <Zakim> +j_hudson; got it
20:19:42 <ChrisL> Vlad: wanted to prepare this for f2f meeting, go through the plans and see what we can do with the new ones
20:20:04 <ChrisL> I changed a few things on https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent today
20:22:00 <ChrisL> Vlad: extraneous-reject was similar in WOFF1, we had well defined padding requirements for tables, no overlap etc
20:22:08 <ChrisL> ... much more complex in woff2
20:22:40 <ChrisL> ... all variable length portions, cant see where they end without parsing. so needs a series of tests
20:23:07 <ChrisL> ... flagged as needing more work in the test plan
20:23:36 <ChrisL> (no suggestions)
20:23:57 <ChrisL> "For each place where extraneous data could occur, make a test."
20:24:18 <ChrisL> Vlad: that is a lot of places. hard to find where those places are
20:24:38 <ChrisL> ... would need to be doctored by hand
20:25:07 <ChrisL> RSheeter: make explicit tests for major and obvious ones?
20:25:37 <ChrisL> Vlad: easy between main and meta, meta and private
20:26:05 <ChrisL> j_hudson: is it that we have no clear prioritization of what to test?
20:26:42 <ChrisL> Vlad: ambiguously defined. and also, variable length parts with no separation
20:27:01 <ChrisL> ... so hard to find where to insert space
20:28:17 <ChrisL> ChrisL: need to reassess value of preventing ppl hiding data in odd places like between tables
20:28:46 <ChrisL> Vlad: yes with per-table compression there were clear interstices that could be exploited. here it is all one compressed blob
20:30:11 <ChrisL> ChrisL: suggest just testing in a few places
20:30:22 <ChrisL> KhaledHosny: we already test those places
20:31:39 <ChrisL> Vlad: in reality these three sections are contiguous. need to parse header to see where the joins between sections are
20:32:15 <ChrisL> Vlad: and its harder to insert extra data, compared to woff1
20:32:44 <ChrisL> ... wonder if the test is too complicated for little gain
20:32:58 <ChrisL> j_hudson: ask the w3c security folks?
20:33:19 <ChrisL> ... if there are security concerns they would know and we could flag it
20:33:50 <ChrisL> action: ChrisL ask webappsec to review woff2
20:33:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-174 - Ask webappsec to review woff2 [on Chris Lilley - due 2015-04-29].
20:34:19 <ChrisL> j_hudson: maybe the person who commented on woff1 in last call would comment here
20:35:25 <ChrisL> Vlad: even with some number of tests we can't test all possible insertion points. want to avoid a false sense of security too
20:36:25 <ChrisL> ChrisL: fuzzing makes more sense on a per-implementation basis
20:36:43 <ChrisL> RSheeter: restrict it to the ones we already test like in woff1
20:36:48 <ChrisL> Vlad: yes
20:37:13 <ChrisL> (we will limit the test plan to the basic file structure insertion points)
20:37:40 <ChrisL> (agreement)
20:38:46 <ChrisL> Vlad: we now have specific descriptions on bounding box calculations, loca tables, etc
20:38:56 <ChrisL> ... esp for font collection support
20:39:42 <ChrisL> Vlad: description best done by whoever makes the tests
20:40:02 <ChrisL> Vlad: KhaledHosny any ideas on those?
20:41:17 <ChrisL> KhaledHosny: I can edit the descriptions for these
20:41:19 <ChrisL> https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent#mustCalculateBBox
20:41:26 <ChrisL> (and on from there)
20:41:59 <ChrisL> KhaledHosny: I have started looking at these already
20:43:17 <ChrisL> Vlad: authoring tool also changed because of the collections stuff
20:43:18 <ChrisL> https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-AuthoringTool
20:43:52 <ChrisL> Vlad: often related to UA tests esp glyf and loca
20:44:49 <ChrisL> Vlad: KhaledHosny if you could share your notes we can verify against test plan
20:45:18 <ChrisL> ... then ready for f2f meeting, when we are all in smae room things move fast
20:45:28 <ChrisL> topic: next meeting
20:45:45 <ChrisL> Vlad: so who is coming to f2f meeting? chris responded
20:47:30 <ChrisL> Vlad: suggested dates are june 9-11 but we probably don't need 3 days
20:47:48 <ChrisL> j_hudson: could call in, will not be there
20:48:05 <ChrisL> Vlad: probably hosted at monotype office, if not somewhere in boston
20:48:44 <ChrisL> kuettel: we wanted to be sure khaled could join somehow, travel is problematic so remote access is important
20:49:05 <ChrisL> ... today was first succesful trial, joining via hangouts and today was the first time that worked
20:49:22 <ChrisL> ... otherwise we were reluctant to have the meeting
20:49:56 <ChrisL> KhaledHosny: all the suggested days are okay
20:50:13 <ChrisL> ... can manage for attending most of each day
20:50:47 <ChrisL> Vlad: certainly June 9, maybe spill over to June 10, don't see more than two days
20:51:41 <RSheeter> Rod & David K can make it :D
20:52:08 <ChrisL> Vlad: jfkthame could you make it?
20:52:41 <ChrisL> jfkthame: not in person
20:52:58 <ChrisL> ... maybe connect for part of the meeting, if needed.
20:53:26 <ChrisL> Vlad: we can plan for an early start to ease remote participation
20:54:08 <ChrisL> Resolved: Meeting 9 and 10 June, Boston, 3 remote participants and 5 on-site
20:54:40 <ChrisL> kuettel: google has an office in cambridge if needed. hangouts already setup. lets discuss offline
20:55:05 <ChrisL> Vlad: monotype has good connectivity in conference rooms too
20:55:13 <ChrisL> ... and hotel next door
20:55:57 <ChrisL> ... (marriott courtyard)
20:56:45 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
20:56:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Vlad, jfkthame, ChrisL, +1.250.668.aaaa, j_hudson
20:57:15 <ChrisL> zakim, aaa holds RSheeter, kuettel, KhaledHosny
20:57:15 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisL, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
20:57:34 <ChrisL> present+ RSheeter, kuettel, KhaledHosny
20:57:38 <RSheeter> https://github.com/w3c/woff2-tests
20:57:47 <ChrisL> RSheeter: also look at the test repo on github
20:57:57 <ChrisL> topic: aob
20:58:05 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
20:58:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
20:58:31 <Zakim> -ChrisL
20:58:33 <Zakim> -j_hudson
20:58:36 <Zakim> -jfkthame
20:58:38 <Zakim> -Vlad
20:58:41 <Zakim> -??P1
20:58:42 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended
20:58:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Vlad, jfkthame, ChrisL, +1.250.668.aaaa, j_hudson