IRC log of social on 2015-04-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:01:22 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #social
17:01:22 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-irc
17:01:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:01:24 [trackbot_]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:01:24 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #social
17:01:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SOCL
17:01:26 [trackbot_]
Zakim, this will be SOCL
17:01:26 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now
17:01:26 [Arnaud]
if people like that, I'm happy to change our page to be more like that
17:01:27 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:01:27 [trackbot_]
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:01:27 [trackbot]
Date: 14 April 2015
17:01:27 [trackbot_]
Date: 14 April 2015
17:01:27 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot_; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now
17:01:33 [AnnB]
AnnB has joined #social
17:01:36 [ben_thatmustbeme]
woah
17:01:57 [tantek]
double the trackbots?
17:01:57 [wilkie]
double trackbot double the fun
17:02:05 [aaronpk]
rhiaro summoned the bots a little too well
17:02:20 [Arnaud]
trackbot_ bye
17:02:29 [Arnaud]
trackbot_, bye
17:02:35 [jasnell]
It's the Doublemint Trackbot Twins
17:02:41 [jperrault]
o/
17:02:59 [Arnaud]
hmm
17:03:04 [aaronpk]
Zakim, who is on the call?
17:03:04 [Zakim]
T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, aaronpk
17:03:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AnnB, Zakim, RRSAgent, jasnell, tantek, jperrault, trackbot_, cwebber2, wilkie, shepazu, oshepherd, nickstenn, Arnaud, KevinMarks, elf-pavlik, bret, kylewm, rhiaro,
17:03:05 [Zakim]
... JakeHart, bigbluehat, dwhly, Loqi, melvster, ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, mattl, ElijahLynn, Tsyesika, sandro, wseltzer, trackbot
17:03:05 [tantek]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
17:03:09 [Arnaud]
zakim, this is socl
17:03:09 [Zakim]
T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, tantek
17:03:09 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AnnB, Zakim, RRSAgent, jasnell, tantek, jperrault, trackbot_, cwebber2, wilkie, shepazu, oshepherd, nickstenn, Arnaud, KevinMarks, elf-pavlik, bret, kylewm, rhiaro,
17:03:09 [ben_thatmustbeme]
Zakim, mute me
17:03:10 [Zakim]
... JakeHart, bigbluehat, dwhly, Loqi, melvster, ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, mattl, ElijahLynn, Tsyesika, sandro, wseltzer, trackbot
17:03:10 [Zakim]
ok, Arnaud; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
17:03:10 [Zakim]
ben_thatmustbeme should now be muted
17:03:13 [cwebber2]
yeah zakim didn't report anyone on the phone
17:03:14 [cwebber2]
haha
17:03:17 [cwebber2]
did not yet start eh
17:03:17 [aaronpk]
Zakim, what time is it?
17:03:17 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, aaronpk.
17:03:20 [Arnaud]
Zakim, who is on the call?
17:03:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ann, cwebber2, +1.978.537.aaaa, aaronpk, Arnaud, ??P8, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), ??P10, [IPcaller]
17:03:25 [wilkie]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
17:03:25 [Zakim]
+wilkie; got it
17:03:26 [cwebber2]
there we go
17:03:35 [Zakim]
-??P10
17:03:39 [jperrault]
I am on the call, was invited by jasnell
17:03:45 [cwebber2]
Zakim, does anyone really know what time it is
17:03:45 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'does anyone really know what time it is', cwebber2
17:03:51 [tantek]
zakim, ??P8 is me
17:03:51 [Zakim]
+tantek; got it
17:03:52 [cwebber2]
nobody really cares clearly
17:03:53 [jasnell]
thanks for joining @jperrault
17:03:55 [tantek]
zakim, mute me
17:03:56 [Zakim]
tantek should now be muted
17:03:59 [jasnell]
I'll dial in in a few minutes
17:03:59 [aaronpk]
nice
17:04:01 [Zakim]
+??P7
17:04:02 [Zakim]
+Sandro
17:04:04 [tantek]
zakim, unmute me
17:04:06 [Zakim]
tantek should no longer be muted
17:04:35 [Arnaud]
zakim, aaaa is jperrault
17:04:35 [Zakim]
+jperrault; got it
17:04:37 [Zakim]
+??P12
17:04:42 [Tsyesika]
Zakim, ??P12 is me
17:04:42 [Zakim]
+Tsyesika; got it
17:04:46 [Tsyesika]
Zakim, mute me
17:04:46 [Zakim]
Tsyesika should now be muted
17:04:55 [Tsyesika]
Zakim, unmute me
17:04:55 [Zakim]
Tsyesika should no longer be muted
17:05:15 [Arnaud]
Zakim, who is on the call?
17:05:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ann, cwebber2, jperrault, aaronpk, Arnaud, tantek, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), wilkie, rhiaro (muted), Sandro, Tsyesika
17:05:24 [Tsyesika]
Zakim, mute me
17:05:24 [Zakim]
Tsyesika should now be muted
17:05:42 [Zakim]
+jasnell
17:06:09 [ben_thatmustbeme]
jperrault++ I hear you are working on the test framework
17:06:11 [Loqi]
jperrault has 1 karma
17:06:18 [Zakim]
+eprodrom
17:06:24 [wilkie]
I can scribe
17:06:34 [wilkie]
:)
17:06:42 [tantek]
scribenick wilkie
17:06:50 [AnnB]
if you're planning to be at F2F in Paris, but haven't put your name on the list... please do so: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-04
17:07:01 [rhiaro]
scribe: wilkie
17:07:02 [ben_thatmustbeme]
scribenick: wilkie
17:07:04 [jasnell]
consistency!
17:07:16 [cwebber2]
vs mixedCase :)
17:07:39 [tantek]
zakim, who is on the call
17:07:39 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the call', tantek
17:07:45 [ben_thatmustbeme]
Zakim, who is on the call?
17:07:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ann, cwebber2, jperrault, aaronpk, Arnaud, tantek, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), wilkie, rhiaro (muted), Sandro, Tsyesika (muted), jasnell, eprodrom
17:07:53 [cwebber2]
looks like everyone's ID
17:07:54 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek, case sensative too
17:07:54 [cwebber2]
'ed
17:08:00 [aaronpk]
methinks Zakim needs a little work
17:08:00 [wilkie]
TOPIC: approval of the minutes
17:08:09 [jasnell]
no objections
17:08:10 [rhiaro]
oh also the march 10th ones are up now too
17:08:13 [wilkie]
tantek: does anybody have objections, fixes, etc to the minutes?
17:08:15 [rhiaro]
they aren't approved yet?
17:08:38 [wilkie]
tantek: let's go ahead and approval the minutes
17:08:53 [rhiaro]
yup
17:09:06 [aaronpk]
\o/
17:09:09 [wilkie]
tantek: let's put the march minutes for next week. rhiaro, can you go ahead and put that for the next week for people to review them.
17:09:21 [wilkie]
tantek: next meeting is next tuesday, Arnaud will chair.
17:09:25 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I cannot actually
17:09:37 [wilkie]
tantek: is evan available?
17:09:50 [wilkie]
evan: I can
17:10:03 [wilkie]
tantek: ok. evan will chair next week and I will be backup
17:10:11 [wilkie]
tantek: that takes us to the next f2f which is Paris
17:10:46 [wilkie]
tantek: AnnB was noting that we are requesting people sign up and looks like there are 13 participants, 1 pending visas and 2 questionable on funding. that looks like a healthy size of a meeting
17:10:55 [wilkie]
tantek: any other questions about the f2f?
17:11:25 [wilkie]
AnnB: john can't come, a grad student is coming and is interested in vocabularities.
17:11:34 [wilkie]
tantek: if you could add him to the regrets page that would be helpful
17:11:51 [wilkie]
AnnB: ok. he just joined, not sure to which group, but I will add him to the regrets page.
17:12:03 [aaronpk]
b 20
17:12:16 [wilkie]
tantek: he is listed as a remote participant though.
17:12:26 [wilkie]
AnnB: if he says he is dialing in, then he is dialing in.
17:12:37 [aaronpk]
s/b 20//
17:12:38 [wilkie]
tantek: any other questions?
17:12:58 [wilkie]
tantek: I'll be in paris, but I have a conflict and won't be able to even remotely participate
17:13:03 [tantek]
q?
17:13:07 [wilkie]
tantek: that's it for the f2f... didn't see anything else come up
17:13:40 [wilkie]
tantek: next is tracking actions and issues
17:13:51 [jasnell]
q+
17:13:59 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek, in order to not take up too much of jperrault's time can we skip tracking of issues until after he gives his demo
17:14:09 [tantek]
issue-18
17:14:09 [trackbot]
issue-18 -- We need to know if there are any other products in this space and if there are any dependencies between ldp and opensocial planned in the future? -- raised
17:14:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/18
17:14:09 [trackbot_]
issue-18 -- We need to know if there are any other products in this space and if there are any dependencies between ldp and opensocial planned in the future? -- raised
17:14:09 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/18
17:14:20 [tantek]
bye trackbot_
17:14:22 [wilkie]
TOPIC: Actions and Issues
17:14:42 [aaronpk]
gtfo trackbot_
17:14:50 [wilkie]
tantek: who raised this issue?
17:14:50 [Zakim]
-cwebber2
17:15:05 [wilkie]
tantek: harry are you on?
17:15:09 [wilkie]
AnnB: he has the flu
17:15:18 [cwebber2]
sorry, got disconnected
17:15:21 [cwebber2]
reconnecting in a sedc
17:15:27 [jasnell]
+1 to closing
17:15:30 [wilkie]
tantek: I'm going to propose summary closure of this issue unless somebody has a good reason to keep it
17:15:36 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1 to reject
17:15:36 [AnnB]
(helpful to read email for last minute statuses :-)
17:15:44 [wilkie]
tantek: looks like a personal todo list item
17:15:49 [wilkie]
tantek: let's go ahead and close it
17:15:55 [tantek]
issue-19
17:15:55 [trackbot]
issue-19 -- WG communication channel explosion -- raised
17:15:55 [trackbot_]
issue-19 -- WG communication channel explosion -- raised
17:15:55 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/19
17:15:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/19
17:16:07 [ben_thatmustbeme]
we are avoiding the issue
17:16:30 [wilkie]
tantek: (laughs) is this part of the communication problem that we can't communicate on this issue
17:17:07 [jasnell]
happy with letting the chairs figure this issue out
17:17:10 [wilkie]
evan: my feeling on this issue is that IRC and email and wiki are our canonical communication channels and if there are dropped balls we handled them as needed
17:17:19 [jasnell]
don't think it's worth opening the issue
17:17:30 [wilkie]
evan: for example, concern that not everybody was reading the mailing list which is fixed by bringing up things in the wiki.
17:17:30 [ben_thatmustbeme]
I second jasnell on that one
17:17:33 [AnnB]
+1
17:18:20 [tantek]
Proposal: IRC and email and wiki are our canonical communication channels and if there are dropped balls we handled them as needed. For example, concern that not everybody was reading the mailing list which is fixed by bringing up things in the wiki.
17:18:42 [tantek]
+1
17:18:45 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
17:18:47 [aaronpk]
+1
17:18:47 [wilkie]
+1
17:18:49 [rhiaro]
+1
17:18:50 [jasnell]
+1
17:19:02 [wilkie]
evan: +1
17:19:31 [tantek]
RESOLVED: IRC and email and wiki are our canonical communication channels and if there are dropped balls we handled them as needed. For example, concern that not everybody was reading the mailing list which is fixed by bringing up things in the wiki.
17:19:48 [AdamB]
AdamB has joined #social
17:19:51 [tantek]
issue-20
17:19:51 [trackbot]
issue-20 -- Represent Collections using JSON Text Sequences (RFC 7464) -- raised
17:19:51 [trackbot_]
issue-20 -- Represent Collections using JSON Text Sequences (RFC 7464) -- raised
17:19:51 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/20
17:19:51 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/20
17:20:02 [Loqi]
Rhiaro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-04-21]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83609&oldid=0
17:20:09 [wseltzer]
trackbot_, bye
17:20:14 [wilkie]
tantek: ok. issue 20. I feel like we already talked about this but didn't open it or something. raised by erik
17:20:36 [wilkie]
jasnell: this came up in the github tracker as well
17:20:38 [Zakim]
+cwebber2
17:20:48 [wilkie]
tantek: we don't have to resolve it. just whether or not to keep it
17:21:20 [wilkie]
jasnell: there are no current implementations that use json text sequences. unless we have actual implementations we shouldn't open it.
17:21:25 [Zakim]
+AdamB
17:21:31 [wilkie]
tantek: so we should reject this issue because there are no implementations?
17:21:42 [wilkie]
jasnell: yes. if an implementation comes along later, we can revisit
17:21:46 [tantek]
PROPOSAL: Reject issue due to no actual implementation using JSON text sequences.
17:21:57 [jasnell]
+1
17:22:00 [wilkie]
tantek: any +1 0 -1?
17:22:03 [jasnell]
:-D
17:22:05 [tantek]
+1
17:22:08 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
17:22:09 [aaronpk]
+1
17:22:10 [wilkie]
+1
17:22:13 [rhiaro]
+1
17:22:15 [Tsyesika]
+1
17:22:21 [wilkie]
evan: +1
17:22:29 [AnnB]
abstain ... deferring to geeks
17:22:33 [tantek]
RESOLVED: Reject issue 20 due to no actual implementation using JSON text sequences.
17:22:47 [tantek]
issue-25
17:22:47 [trackbot_]
issue-25 -- What syntax is (syntaxes are) to be used in the social api (eg microformats vs json-ld; form-encoding vs json-ld) -- raised
17:22:47 [trackbot]
issue-25 -- What syntax is (syntaxes are) to be used in the social api (eg microformats vs json-ld; form-encoding vs json-ld) -- raised
17:22:47 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/25
17:22:47 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/25
17:22:50 [cwebber2]
+0, seems fine
17:22:54 [wilkie]
tantek: the last raised issue: 25.
17:23:25 [wilkie]
tantek: great question. don't really know until we see proposals. seems like something the social api will have to answer.
17:23:36 [jasnell]
+1 to open
17:23:50 [wilkie]
tantek: though elf isn't here, seems like one that is reasonable to open as it is a question we need to answer for the social api
17:23:51 [tantek]
PROPOSAL: Open issue as something that Social API proposals should answer.
17:23:56 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1 to open
17:23:57 [wilkie]
+1
17:23:58 [aaronpk]
+1
17:24:08 [Tsyesika]
+1 to open also
17:24:13 [rhiaro]
+1
17:24:22 [tantek]
RESOLVED: Open issue 25 as something that Social API proposals should answer.
17:24:28 [tantek]
trackbot, open issue-25
17:24:28 [trackbot_]
Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, open issue-25'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
17:24:28 [trackbot]
Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, open issue-25'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
17:24:36 [jasnell]
q?
17:24:56 [tantek]
q?
17:25:00 [tantek]
ack jasnell
17:25:10 [jasnell]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/29
17:25:17 [Zakim]
-eprodrom
17:25:20 [wilkie]
jasnell: I have three items that I marked as pending review.
17:25:40 [wilkie]
jasnell: I assumed they would be covered under tracking actions/issues
17:25:46 [tantek]
issue-29
17:25:46 [trackbot]
issue-29 -- Removing Activity Types not used by User Stories -- pending review
17:25:46 [trackbot_]
issue-29 -- Removing Activity Types not used by User Stories -- pending review
17:25:46 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/29
17:25:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/29
17:25:50 [tantek]
issue-30
17:25:50 [trackbot_]
issue-30 -- Deprecate "actor" in favor of "attributedTo" -- pending review
17:25:50 [trackbot]
issue-30 -- Deprecate "actor" in favor of "attributedTo" -- pending review
17:25:50 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/30
17:25:50 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/30
17:25:52 [tantek]
issue-35
17:25:52 [trackbot]
issue-35 -- Simplify the Actor Types -- pending review
17:25:52 [trackbot_]
issue-35 -- Simplify the Actor Types -- pending review
17:25:52 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/35
17:25:52 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/35
17:26:15 [tantek]
PROPOSAL: withdraw issue 30 without action.
17:26:20 [wilkie]
jasnell: for issue 30 my solution is to simply withdraw it
17:26:41 [wilkie]
jasnell: this was to deprecate actor for attributeTo and folks didn't seem to like this.
17:26:55 [wilkie]
+1
17:26:55 [tantek]
any objections?
17:27:07 [tantek]
RESOLVED: close issue 30 without action.
17:27:31 [wilkie]
tantek: did you want to give the group (wrt 29, 35) some time for review
17:27:53 [wilkie]
tantek: is one week enough time?
17:27:58 [Arnaud]
trackbot_, bye
17:28:35 [tantek]
ACTION ALL, please review issue 29, issue 35, and respective pull requests by 2015-04-21.
17:28:35 [trackbot_]
Error finding 'ALL,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
17:28:35 [trackbot]
Error finding 'ALL,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
17:28:37 [wilkie]
jasnell: yep. pull requests are on github. the links are right.
17:28:44 [wilkie]
tantek: you can add the links to the pull requests to the issues
17:28:51 [wilkie]
jasnell: a week should be long enough
17:29:02 [wilkie]
tantek: Does anybody want to claim success on actions/issues?
17:29:08 [eprodrom]
eprodrom has joined #social
17:29:11 [eprodrom]
Hello!
17:29:15 [wilkie]
tantek: that takes us to activity streams 2.0 in the agenda
17:29:27 [wilkie]
TOPIC: Activity Streams 2.0
17:29:28 [jasnell]
q+
17:29:30 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-04-14#Activity_Streams_2.0
17:29:34 [aaronpk]
q+ to resolve action-55 thanks to rhiaro
17:29:43 [wilkie]
tantek: first thing is the test harness demonstration
17:29:51 [tantek]
Test Harness Demonstration (James Snell and JP Perrault, IBM)
17:29:59 [wilkie]
jasnell: jperrault has not participating in the WG before but joined the call today
17:30:03 [Loqi]
Alehors made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83611&oldid=83606
17:30:04 [Loqi]
Rhiaro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-14]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83612&oldid=83598
17:30:18 [wilkie]
jasnell: week before last jperrault started working on a basic testing harness that does basic validation of an AS document
17:30:29 [wilkie]
jasnell: I can hand it over to him
17:30:48 [jperrault]
https://as-test-harness.mybluemix.net/#
17:31:34 [wilkie]
jperrault: if you go to the link, what we have here is a node-based service similar to the w3 validator except it validates against the AS2.0 spec
17:32:08 [dret]
dret has joined #social
17:32:11 [wilkie]
jperrault: intent was 3-fold: to validate the json that comes back from a uri you provide, to validate json format, and validate terms from the spec
17:32:38 [wilkie]
jperrault: it gives you links that give back valid/invalid json and you can click on them and it will returns errors
17:33:09 [wilkie]
tantek: javascript is required for the links?
17:33:31 [wilkie]
jperrault: yes, you should enable javascript. you can type the iri in and I can paste some links in irc.
17:33:38 [Zakim]
+eprodrom
17:33:49 [eprodrom]
Thanks, sorry about that
17:34:07 [jperrault]
https://as-test-harness.mybluemix.net/as20/displayname1
17:34:35 [wilkie]
jperrault: the results at the moment also depend on javascript. I will correct that in the next sprint.
17:34:39 [eprodrom]
q+
17:34:55 [wilkie]
jperrault: not much to say except the intent would be to modularize the test to test each of the terms and test specific use cases in the spec
17:35:00 [tantek]
q?
17:35:03 [tantek]
ack jasnell
17:35:04 [wilkie]
tantek: thank you for the demo, can we go to the queue for q/a
17:35:10 [tantek]
ack aaronpk
17:35:10 [Zakim]
aaronpk, you wanted to resolve action-55 thanks to rhiaro
17:35:19 [tantek]
ack eprodrom
17:35:20 [wilkie]
aaronpk: this is unrelated I can wait.
17:35:56 [wilkie]
eprodrom: this is interesting. couple questions. one of the things we want to do is test implementations and this seems testing available data, which I guess we could use to test output from libraries or tools we have.
17:36:13 [wilkie]
eprodrom: how does this fit if we wanted to test the javascript implementations jasnell has done
17:36:45 [wilkie]
jasnell: this is a start that uses that implementation underneath. the intent is to give us something to start with expecting it would need to evolve with api discussions and use cases
17:36:53 [AdamB]
q+
17:36:57 [wilkie]
jasnell: this at least gets us a path to a way of testing at least a AS document
17:37:24 [cwebber2]
eprodrom: I think you might be dropping in and out
17:37:30 [wilkie]
eprodrom: one way to see this is if I were to take an implementation and put it so it could be checked with this framework and see the output is valid
17:37:43 [eprodrom]
Thanks
17:37:43 [Loqi]
yay!
17:38:06 [wilkie]
jasnell: if you have an endpoint up that publishes AS at a public url, you could give that url and at least see the format is correct
17:38:25 [wilkie]
jasnell: to check behaviors we would have to change it quite a bit. we could do it. this only checks the format, right now.
17:38:49 [wilkie]
jasnell: the intent is to throw this up on github and make the tests modular so we can add tests as we move along.
17:38:58 [tantek]
q+ to note that if the validator could have direct <a href> links to the test examples, then a consuming application could use those as test cases
17:39:06 [tantek]
ack AdamB
17:39:17 [tantek]
like a textarea?
17:39:27 [wilkie]
AdamB: what if I don't have a public url to give you. can I run this myself?
17:39:33 [aaronpk]
could you paste in a chunk of json in a text area?
17:39:42 [wilkie]
jperrault: right now it is a node server. you could pull it down and serve it locally.
17:39:45 [Arnaud]
another option would be to allow for a file upload
17:39:47 [aaronpk]
example microformats parser that supports both: http://pin13.net/mf2/
17:40:02 [Loqi]
Alehors made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83613&oldid=83611
17:40:06 [wilkie]
jasnell: the github url doesn't exist yet. we don't have the space under the w3 area. we could throw it on our personal space for now.
17:40:08 [Arnaud]
that's what the w3c validator does
17:40:12 [wilkie]
tantek: don't wait for process. just ship it.
17:40:18 [aaronpk]
is there an issue publishing it under a personal account?
17:40:24 [wilkie]
jperrault: we do have an IBM space. we have to go through process.
17:40:31 [wilkie]
AnnB: harry has to do something?
17:40:45 [wilkie]
jasnell: not sure. our internal process should be good and we can get it out this week.
17:40:56 [AnnB]
s/harry has to do something?/does it have to be harry that does that?/
17:41:06 [wilkie]
jasnell: very simple vanilla node app. installing it locally should be straightforward
17:41:40 [wilkie]
tantek: comment by aaronpk if you could add a textarea for pasting json
17:41:45 [wilkie]
jperrault: of course
17:41:53 [ben_thatmustbeme]
jperrault++ thank you
17:41:55 [tantek]
q/
17:41:55 [Loqi]
jperrault has 2 karma
17:41:56 [wilkie]
tantek: that could help private json validation without a url.
17:41:57 [tantek]
Q?
17:42:01 [tantek]
ack tantek
17:42:01 [Zakim]
tantek, you wanted to note that if the validator could have direct <a href> links to the test examples, then a consuming application could use those as test cases
17:42:04 [jasnell]
jperrault++
17:42:06 [cwebber2]
thank you jperrault !
17:42:06 [Loqi]
jperrault has 3 karma
17:42:09 [cwebber2]
jperrault++
17:42:11 [Loqi]
jperrault has 4 karma
17:42:28 [eprodrom]
Thanks jperrault !
17:42:41 [wilkie]
tantek: how do we use this to test consuming applications. if all the links you have could just be a-hrefs you could just use those for consuming applications as well
17:42:55 [tantek]
q?
17:42:56 [wilkie]
jperrault: I was having too much fun with jQuery
17:42:59 [ben_thatmustbeme]
i think we can save feature requests for the github repo :)
17:43:01 [wilkie]
tantek: always a dangerous thing
17:43:07 [wilkie]
tantek: any more questions about jperrault's validator?
17:43:25 [wilkie]
tantek: great work. looking forward to seeing it on github. let's go to the next item.
17:43:32 [jperrault]
diconnecting - thank you all.
17:43:50 [wilkie]
tantek: open pull requests. jasnell... all these are from you? these need the group's approval?
17:44:07 [Zakim]
-jperrault
17:44:08 [tantek]
https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/96
17:44:10 [wilkie]
tantek: these were in the agenda for a while for people to review?
17:44:12 [tantek]
https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/95
17:44:14 [tantek]
https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/92
17:44:47 [wilkie]
tantek: I think we talked about this last week. unless objections, we should just say you move forward on these.
17:44:58 [tantek]
PROPOSAL accept pull requests 96, 95, 92
17:45:05 [tantek]
+1
17:45:19 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
17:45:21 [jasnell]
+1
17:45:22 [wilkie]
+1
17:45:25 [rhiaro]
+1
17:45:28 [cwebber2]
+1
17:45:28 [Zakim]
-AdamB
17:45:32 [eprodrom]
-1
17:45:41 [eprodrom]
Yes
17:45:47 [eprodrom]
30 se
17:45:49 [eprodrom]
30 seconds
17:45:50 [cwebber2]
haha
17:45:50 [wilkie]
tantek: eprodrom, you want more time to review?
17:45:59 [eprodrom]
+1
17:46:01 [eprodrom]
Thanks
17:46:04 [cwebber2]
oh thre we go
17:46:06 [eprodrom]
+1
17:46:16 [eprodrom]
Sorry, I just wanted to make sure we were doing the ones I though
17:46:18 [eprodrom]
thought
17:46:19 [wilkie]
tantek: alright, we can declare this resolved (laughs)
17:46:24 [eprodrom]
+1 for all three proposals
17:46:27 [tantek]
RESOLVED: accept pull requests 96, 95, 92
17:46:33 [eprodrom]
+1 for all three pulls I mean
17:46:49 [wilkie]
tantek: next item: open issues from the editor. that's you again jasnell
17:46:49 [tantek]
now Open Issues from the Editor:
17:46:55 [tantek]
issue-26
17:46:55 [trackbot]
issue-26 -- Representing profiles in Activity Streams 2.0 -- open
17:46:55 [trackbot_]
issue-26 -- Representing profiles in Activity Streams 2.0 -- open
17:46:55 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/26
17:46:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/26
17:47:01 [tantek]
issue-27
17:47:01 [trackbot_]
issue-27 -- How do we represent changes to a profile in an activity -- open
17:47:01 [trackbot]
issue-27 -- How do we represent changes to a profile in an activity -- open
17:47:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/27
17:47:01 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/27
17:47:07 [wilkie]
jasnell: we need a resolution. do we want to add a 'profile' object to the core vocabulary or not
17:47:13 [eprodrom]
q+
17:47:18 [tantek]
ack eprodrom
17:47:18 [wilkie]
jasnell: we already have 'person' in the vocab. do we need a 'profile'
17:47:22 [wilkie]
tantek: evan?
17:48:02 [wilkie]
eprodrom: I feel like the Person is enough to justify a Profile, or if there are other kinds of profile, we could use other objects. such as Corporation etc having profiles for.
17:48:18 [wilkie]
eprodrom: the biggest issue that a Person having a Profile that people may have other aspects or personalities
17:48:32 [rhiaro]
a person can have multiple profiles, but maybe persons and profiles don't need to be modelled separately in the vocab (unsure)
17:48:36 [wilkie]
eprodrom: for instance, my interest in baseball or poker may have different personalities facing different social areas
17:48:48 [wilkie]
eprodrom: I feel like it is a complicated and fine-tuned type of concept that can be mapped on multiple accounts
17:49:05 [jasnell]
q+
17:49:10 [wilkie]
eprodrom: my feeling is that requiring that all users have multiple profiles is unnecessarily complex for the general case
17:49:18 [wilkie]
tantek: do you have a specific proposal to help resolve the issue
17:49:29 [tantek]
q?
17:49:31 [jasnell]
q-
17:49:33 [eprodrom]
Person class is profile class
17:49:47 [wilkie]
eprodrom: my proposal would be to use Person as profile object
17:50:03 [tantek]
PROPOSAL: Use Person as profile object to address issues 26 27
17:50:05 [jasnell]
+1
17:50:16 [eprodrom]
+1
17:50:16 [wilkie]
+1
17:50:41 [rhiaro]
-0 not sure :/
17:50:52 [eprodrom]
rhiaro: let's discuss now!
17:50:53 [rhiaro]
yep
17:50:57 [eprodrom]
OK, that's good too
17:51:00 [cwebber2]
-0 not really sure either, the thing I'm concerned about
17:51:08 [rhiaro]
I'll come up with a counterproposal
17:51:10 [cwebber2]
is the "multiple personas" type thing that rhiaro brought up on-list
17:51:15 [rhiaro]
cwebber2: maybe you can help :)
17:51:16 [eprodrom]
cwebber2: could you bring it up now?
17:51:18 [jasnell]
q+
17:51:34 [wilkie]
eprodrom: I would encourage discussion
17:51:47 [cwebber2]
I'm *not* -1 btw :)
17:51:52 [wilkie]
jasnell: the multiple personas thing needs to be considered but gets complex
17:52:20 [wilkie]
jasnell: lots of different ways to resolve this issue and it is not clear to me that there needs to be one way to resolve this issue
17:52:20 [tantek]
Updated PROPOSAL: Use Person as profile object to address issues 26 27. Ok to re-open with new information when available, still open to multiple personas e.g. via extension.
17:52:23 [cwebber2]
I don't have a specific proposal right now.
17:52:26 [cwebber2]
but
17:52:31 [cwebber2]
I would like to talk with rhiaro
17:52:37 [rhiaro]
yep
17:52:37 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
17:52:38 [cwebber2]
and find out if we could put one together
17:52:40 [cwebber2]
yes tantek
17:52:41 [cwebber2]
thank you
17:52:43 [rhiaro]
thanks
17:52:45 [jasnell]
+1
17:52:52 [tantek]
RESOLVED: Use Person as profile object to address issues 26 27. Ok to re-open with new information when available, still open to multiple personas e.g. via extension.
17:53:01 [tantek]
issue-28
17:53:01 [trackbot]
issue-28 -- Remodel "Connect" and "FriendRequest" or Remove them? -- open
17:53:01 [trackbot_]
issue-28 -- Remodel "Connect" and "FriendRequest" or Remove them? -- open
17:53:01 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/28
17:53:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/28
17:53:08 [wilkie]
tantek: next issue is 28
17:53:49 [cwebber2]
Arnaud: :)
17:54:13 [cwebber2]
Arnaud: probably true, in the long run
17:54:15 [AnnB]
yes, Arnaud
17:54:35 [cwebber2]
let's not press tantek into extending this call though :)
17:54:36 [rhiaro]
facebook still does that, twitter does with following too
17:54:37 [eprodrom]
q+
17:54:37 [wilkie]
tantek: I have seen connections/friendship/etc as permalinks on things like facebook and seen them on timelines
17:55:01 [cwebber2]
AnnB: ;)
17:55:04 [wilkie]
jasnell: the way it is currently modeled is that friend-request is the verb, which doesn't make much sense. as opposed to creating a connection between me and somebody else.
17:55:08 [wilkie]
tantek: there is 'followed'
17:55:34 [wilkie]
jasnell: there is a subtle difference and worth exploring. my recommendation is to change them from activity types to object types. instead of friend-request, they'd be a friendship object.
17:55:39 [eprodrom]
q?
17:55:42 [tantek]
PROPOSAL: Remodel "Connect" and "FriendRequest" as object types
17:55:42 [wilkie]
tantek: seems like a reasonable improvement
17:55:48 [tantek]
q?
17:55:52 [tantek]
ack jasnell
17:55:54 [tantek]
ack eprodrom
17:56:24 [cwebber2]
hm interesting
17:56:34 [rhiaro]
+1 to connect object I think
17:56:35 [wilkie]
eprodrom: the main thing I like about this proposal is that that relationship object can have a whole CRUD lifecycle. it can be created/updated/deleted and that's a nice part of that connection.
17:56:37 [cwebber2]
having a CRUD lifecycle to an object would be nice
17:56:39 [cwebber2]
er
17:56:40 [cwebber2]
to a connection
17:56:41 [cwebber2]
jeez
17:56:47 [cwebber2]
AnnB: I agree
17:56:51 [wilkie]
eprodrom: it can even have properties that are represented. work-relationship, wife, father, etc.
17:56:56 [cwebber2]
fwiw I think this meeting is going pretty well
17:57:19 [tantek]
eprodrom +1 agreeing with CRUD aspects of relationships as object types
17:57:24 [cwebber2]
and I know I've been complain'y about us dragging on communicating about communicating in meetings, I think this one has been hitting important points :)
17:57:31 [wilkie]
eprodrom: the only problem I would have is that in general a lot of the semantics of AS is in the activity types / verbs, and would we be losing some part of the social software by doing this.
17:57:47 [wilkie]
eprodrom: I think the up-sides outweigh the down-sides.
17:57:47 [eprodrom]
+1
17:57:49 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
17:57:50 [rhiaro]
+1
17:57:52 [jasnell]
+1
17:57:55 [wilkie]
tantek: I'll take that as a +1. the proposal still stands. no objections?
17:57:56 [wilkie]
+1
17:57:56 [cwebber2]
+1
17:58:02 [Tsyesika]
+1
17:58:06 [tantek]
RESOLVED: Remodel "Connect" and "FriendRequest" as object types per issue 28
17:58:24 [cwebber2]
I'll like the reshare of the connect object :)
17:58:30 [tantek]
issue-32
17:58:30 [trackbot]
issue-32 -- Deprecate "generator" and "provider" -- open
17:58:30 [trackbot_]
issue-32 -- Deprecate "generator" and "provider" -- open
17:58:30 [trackbot_]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/32
17:58:30 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/32
17:59:08 [eprodrom]
q+
17:59:09 [tantek]
PROPOSAL Deprecate "generator" and "provider" in AS2
17:59:10 [wilkie]
jasnell: I've only seen [generator/provider] used for metadata. I want to simplify and move these down. deprecate them. want to see what people think.
17:59:15 [tantek]
ack eprodrom
17:59:46 [aaronpk]
q+
17:59:58 [wilkie]
eprodrom: I think the big thing about generator/provider.. I'm less concerned about provider.. the generator one plays the same role as an application generator in a facebook stream does. helps identify the application that generated the activity.
18:00:11 [jasnell]
so maybe just deprecate provider?
18:00:12 [wilkie]
eprodrom: super helpful for the app. if you are farmville, then this is important to you.
18:00:28 [wilkie]
eprodrom: would be ok with dropping provider, not generator. wonder why jasnell think's it is not important.
18:00:36 [cwebber2]
could se way this is something that could be an extension?
18:00:52 [cwebber2]
we say
18:00:53 [cwebber2]
not se way
18:00:57 [tantek]
q?
18:00:58 [wilkie]
jasnell: I just haven't seen it used in implementations. I've fine if your experience is different. provider is largely redundant.
18:00:59 [tantek]
ack aaronpk
18:01:13 [tantek]
updated PROPOSAL keep Generator, deprecate Provider from AS2
18:01:22 [aaronpk]
http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/04/09/1/pdxcarpet-pdx
18:01:27 [ben_thatmustbeme]
i think its a pretty useful item, certainly something we see examples of (facebook does with "via" links)
18:01:33 [rhiaro]
yeah, I'm going to add crediting applications to my posts, too
18:01:36 [wilkie]
aaronpk: I agree with eprodrom on this. the generator is useful to credit the application that was used. I use this to credit applications on my own streams. think it is useful to keep it.
18:01:36 [bengo]
bengo has joined #social
18:01:43 [AnnB]
cool, aaronpk
18:01:45 [jasnell]
+1
18:01:47 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
18:01:48 [aaronpk]
+1
18:01:48 [wilkie]
+1
18:01:50 [rhiaro]
+1
18:01:51 [eprodrom]
+q
18:01:54 [eprodrom]
Sorry
18:01:55 [eprodrom]
+1
18:01:57 [eprodrom]
q-
18:01:57 [cwebber2]
+1 sure why not :)
18:01:58 [Tsyesika]
+1
18:02:06 [eprodrom]
Finger slippage
18:02:14 [tantek]
RESOLVED: keep Generator, deprecate Provider from AS2 per issue 32
18:03:07 [Tsyesika]
i agree
18:03:08 [wilkie]
tantek: we have one remaining issue we will move to next week. we have an open issue from elf, but he isn't here. so I say this is a reasonable progress for the hour. we should go for an hour next week as well
18:03:09 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
18:03:12 [jasnell]
+1
18:03:12 [wilkie]
tantek: if no objections
18:03:12 [eprodrom]
+1
18:03:14 [wilkie]
+1
18:03:17 [cwebber2]
+0 :)
18:03:22 [eprodrom]
Great! Thanks wilkie and tantek
18:03:26 [wilkie]
tantek: great. with that, the call will be closed.
18:03:31 [Zakim]
-eprodrom
18:03:32 [wilkie]
tantek: (some vague praise for wilkie)
18:03:33 [Zakim]
-Tsyesika
18:03:34 [cwebber2]
great meeting everyone, thanks for chairing tantek
18:03:37 [cwebber2]
and thanks for scribing wilkie
18:03:38 [eprodrom]
Thanks all
18:03:38 [Zakim]
-aaronpk
18:03:40 [AnnB]
could you guys look at https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr/issues ... make your comments to help resolve objections?
18:03:41 [Zakim]
-Arnaud
18:03:44 [Zakim]
-jasnell
18:03:46 [cwebber2]
tantek++
18:03:49 [Loqi]
tantek has 180 karma
18:03:49 [cwebber2]
wilkie++
18:03:49 [Zakim]
-tantek
18:03:52 [Loqi]
wilkie has 8 karma
18:03:55 [Zakim]
-rhiaro
18:03:57 [AnnB]
thanks a lot tantek .. good chairing
18:04:03 [AnnB]
wilkie++
18:04:06 [Loqi]
wilkie has 9 karma
18:04:10 [Zakim]
-cwebber2
18:04:12 [Zakim]
-wilkie
18:04:16 [Zakim]
-Ann
18:04:25 [Zakim]
-ben_thatmustbeme
18:04:52 [Arnaud]
trackbot, end meeting
18:04:52 [trackbot_]
Zakim, list attendees
18:04:52 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
18:04:52 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Ann, cwebber2, +1.978.537.aaaa, aaronpk, Arnaud, ben_thatmustbeme, wilkie, tantek, Sandro, rhiaro, jperrault, Tsyesika, jasnell, eprodrom,
18:04:56 [Zakim]
... AdamB
18:04:56 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Ann, cwebber2, +1.978.537.aaaa, aaronpk, Arnaud, ben_thatmustbeme, wilkie, tantek, Sandro, rhiaro, jperrault, Tsyesika, jasnell, eprodrom,
18:04:56 [Zakim]
... AdamB
18:05:00 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:05:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:05:00 [trackbot_]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:05:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-minutes.html trackbot_
18:05:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
18:05:01 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
18:05:01 [trackbot_]
RRSAgent, bye
18:05:01 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
18:05:46 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #social
18:05:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-irc
18:05:57 [Arnaud]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:05:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-minutes.html Arnaud
18:06:08 [Arnaud]
damn
18:06:16 [Arnaud]
two bots and that didn't even work
18:06:48 [Arnaud]
RRSAgent, make log public
18:07:01 [tantek]
Arnaud, that URL looks reasonable
18:07:01 [Arnaud]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
18:07:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-minutes.html Arnaud
18:07:05 [tantek]
yeah that one
18:07:17 [Arnaud]
ah! that worked
18:07:31 [Arnaud]
ok, we're set
18:07:41 [Arnaud]
RRSAgent, bye
18:07:41 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items