IRC log of xproc on 2015-04-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:47 [RRSAgent]
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13:59:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/01-xproc-irc
13:59:50 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xproc
13:59:50 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:51 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
13:59:51 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
13:59:51 [Norm]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/04/01-agenda
13:59:51 [Norm]
Date: 1 April 2015
13:59:52 [Norm]
Meeting: 268
13:59:53 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
13:59:55 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
13:59:59 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
14:00:54 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
14:01:02 [Zakim]
+Loren_Cahlander
14:01:06 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:02:06 [Norm]
zakim, passcode?
14:02:06 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Norm
14:03:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.761.aaaa
14:03:46 [Norm]
zakim, aaaa is me
14:03:46 [Zakim]
+Norm; got it
14:06:05 [Zakim]
+ +226256aabb
14:06:15 [Norm]
zakim, aabb is Murray
14:06:15 [Zakim]
+Murray; got it
14:08:24 [Norm]
zakim, who's here?
14:08:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Loren_Cahlander, [IPcaller], Norm, Murray
14:08:26 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, lcahlander, Norm, jfuller, liam
14:08:29 [Norm]
Regrets: Henry
14:08:37 [Norm]
zakim, [IPcaller is jfuller
14:08:37 [Zakim]
+jfuller; got it
14:08:40 [Zakim]
-Murray
14:08:44 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Jim, Loren, Murray
14:09:01 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
14:09:01 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/04/01-agenda
14:09:01 [Zakim]
+Murray
14:09:10 [Norm]
Accepted.
14:09:27 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
14:09:27 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/03/25-minutes
14:09:29 [Norm]
Accepted.
14:09:34 [Norm]
Proposed: 8 April 2015 does anyone have to give regrets?
14:09:56 [Norm]
No regrets heard.
14:10:36 [Zakim]
-Norm
14:10:36 [jfuller]
+1
14:11:39 [Zakim]
+Norm
14:12:00 [Norm]
Reminder: We have a face-to-face scheduled for Edinburgh in June.
14:12:34 [Norm]
Topic: Semantics of p:cast-content-type, issue 116? (Continued from last week, review minutes.)
14:12:42 [Norm]
-> https://github.com/xproc/specification/issues/116
14:13:05 [Norm]
Norm attempts to summarize
14:14:14 [Norm]
Norm: I think there are two interpretations: it should just change the type without doing anything else.
14:14:26 [Norm]
...or it should (sometimes) do some sort of transformation on the actual data.
14:14:37 [Norm]
Norm: I don't see how the former interpretation can be implemented.
14:15:50 [Norm]
Norm explains that he doesn't understand how changing from a non-xml content type to an xml content type can work without at least parsing the content!
14:16:30 [Norm]
Jim: Is it equivalent to just changing the content type property (document properties)?
14:16:34 [Norm]
Norm: Yes and that's forbiddne.
14:16:38 [Norm]
s/ddne/dden/
14:17:50 [Norm]
Murray: This is the distinction between casting and coersion, isn't it?
14:17:53 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, basically.
14:18:52 [Norm]
Jim: We could allow the former interpretation by letting the user change the type.
14:20:26 [Norm]
Some review of the current prose in p:cast-content-type
14:20:36 [Norm]
Norm wonders if we should just say it's a binary and it's implementation dependent.
14:20:45 [Norm]
Jim: I think that sounds like an improvement.
14:21:32 [Norm]
Norm: How about I take an action to attempt to improve it and see if we get agreeemtn.
14:21:34 [Norm]
s/eee/ee/
14:22:36 [Norm]
ACTION A-268-01: Norm to attempt to clarify p:cast-content-type
14:23:07 [Norm]
Jim: It follows that if we say this step can set the content-type document property, are we going to allow it elsewhere?
14:26:00 [Norm]
Jim: I think we need the step, I'm convinced we don't need to loosen up setting the property independently.
14:26:28 [Norm]
Murray: Inside this cast step, if there has to be something done, then the cast step has to have knowledge of how to do that.
14:27:21 [Norm]
Norm: It has to be something the step knows how to do.
14:27:45 [Norm]
Murray: So that's why you need a coercion step inside a cast step.
14:27:54 [Norm]
Norm: I think the cast step just has to know how to do the coercion.
14:29:42 [Norm]
Topic: Clarify p:load, issue #145; see proposed changes to p:document, p:load, and p:http-request.
14:29:49 [Norm]
-> https://github.com/xproc/specification/issues/145
14:31:10 [Norm]
Norm attempts to summarize his drafts.
14:33:12 [Norm]
Jim: I think these are good changes.
14:34:00 [Norm]
Jim: I looked for a spec for filename globbing and didn't find it.
14:34:21 [Norm]
Jim: Should we add an option to p:load to allow recursing through nested directories
14:34:25 [Norm]
s/ies/ies?/
14:35:02 [Norm]
Norm: We could, it feels to me like recursing directories is on the "other side of the line"
14:35:48 [Norm]
Jim: I think it's a simple thing to add
14:37:39 [Norm]
Murray: Being able to list just the files that I want would also be useful.
14:38:54 [Norm]
ACTION A-268-02: Jim to create an issue for recursion in p:load with a note of the question about enumerating a list of files
14:40:06 [Norm]
Topic: Norm's proposal for filtering inputs, see p:filter.
14:40:12 [Norm]
Norm attempts to summarize
14:40:46 [Norm]
https://ndw.github.io/specification/langspec/input-filter/head/xproc20/diff.html#p.filter
14:43:36 [Norm]
Norm: Like filtering in things like ant and gradle, it just simplifies things.
14:43:53 [Norm]
Jim: I think the idea is spot on, but I have some questions about why it's a child of p:input.
14:44:16 [Norm]
...The idea of having multiple p:filters...what does ordering do?
14:45:26 [Norm]
Norm: I removed the interleave problem.
14:46:05 [Norm]
Jim: How about a top-level definition of the filter that you can reuse?
14:46:46 [Norm]
Norm: I sort of thought that the filters were likely to be unique.
14:47:01 [Norm]
Jim: If you can't nest, then it makes sense to have them as children.
14:47:29 [Norm]
...as opposed to having them as an attribute on p:input
14:48:09 [Norm]
Norm: I thought having multiple children would be easier
14:48:45 [Norm]
Jim: I think my resistance as elements is that it makes things three levels deep.
14:49:21 [Norm]
...I think it would be nicer for users if it could be done with less nesting.
14:49:54 [Norm]
...In this example, for example, if you had a pipe attribute on p:input, you wouldn't have to have the children.
14:50:22 [Norm]
Norm: I confess, I'd forgotten about the syntactic shortcut of allowing more attributes on p:input
14:51:00 [Norm]
Norm: Maybe we should allow that
14:51:33 [Norm]
Norm: How about p:filter has only a select attribute, only does positive selection, and can be on p:input as a filter attribute as a syntactic shortcut.
14:52:16 [Norm]
Jim: I like that.
14:52:26 [Norm]
Norm: Ok, I'll redraft the proposal that way.
14:53:00 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
14:53:08 [Norm]
None heard, we're adjourned.
14:53:20 [Zakim]
-Loren_Cahlander
14:53:21 [Zakim]
-Norm
14:53:21 [Zakim]
-Murray
14:53:28 [Zakim]
-jfuller
14:53:29 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
14:53:29 [Zakim]
Attendees were Loren_Cahlander, [IPcaller], +1.512.761.aaaa, Norm, +226256aabb, Murray, jfuller
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