See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 31 March 2015
<scribe> agenda: this
<joanie> scribe: joanie
<clown> action-1590?
<trackbot> action-1590 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Confirm that the AXAPI mapping of aria-owns is AXOwns array -- due 2015-02-27 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1590
JS: I noticed there was an error
in the mappings for aria-owns.
... I asked James and he got back to me yesterday to confirm
that it is AXOwns and not AXLinkedUIElements.
... Therefore, I have closed this action.
RS: Apple has an AXOwns?
JS: I came across it awhile back.
I'm not sure how long it's been there.
... This prompted my question about the mapping for aria-owns
on the Apple.
<clown> action-1279?
<trackbot> action-1279 -- Shane McCarron to Talk to mobile manufacturers about how to include their apis -- due 2013-10-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1279
JS: I brought this up on list
yesterday. Rich has already replied.
... There's an old action about asking mobile manufacturers
about incuding their mappings in our specs.
RS: We couldn't get it in time
for ARIA 1.0.
... Interfaces in some cases add some further complication for
mapping.
... For instance, how do you get the header information?
... I also sent a note to Dominic regarding what Google
does.
JD: Apple now has an open means via which developers and testers can build and examine WebKit/Safari for iOS via simulator.
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0247.html
JS: Dominic has already applied
(link above)
... (Reads from above message from Dominic)
JD: Here is the link I mentioned https://www.webkit.org/blog/3457/building-webkit-for-ios-simulator/
RS and JS: We need to know if we can do this in the 1.1 timeframe
RS: I will ask.
JS: We can do the Microsoft
mappings in time for 1.1: Just use UIA.
... What does Firefox do on the Android?
JD: They also have Firefox OS. I know they're actively working on that, but I don't know any details.
JS: Should this still belong to Shane?
RS: I don't know how it got
assigned to Shane.
... Assign it to me for now.
JD: Someone perhaps should ping Mozilla about the Firefox OS mappings.
JS: I'll ping Yura.
<clown> scribenick: clown
<joanie> JS: This is something Joanie wanted me to add to the agenda.
JD: Thanks to all the work I'm
doing on new table roles, I think it would be good to
face-to-face.
... Specifically the user agent issues.
... We'd want gecko developers theres.
... We'd want Cynthis to rep. Microsoft.
... And, we'd want James.
... And Joseph, since he's the editor.
... A lot of the people would already be in Toronto around that
time.
... It would be good if Chris, Cynthia, and James could
come.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
<clown> JD: We could do work on harmonziing the mappings across platforms.
CS: I might be able to come. But I'm not yet sure.
JS: My take on the meeting is to
get consistency across platforms in mapping.
... I'm not yet sure if I'll be able to attend.
(Group discusses other possibilities for having a face-to-face. No current, potentiall-viable candidates.)
<clown> action-1373?
<trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2015-03-24 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
JS: This one was delayed last week until today.
CS: I haven't had a chance yet. Leave it overdue.
JS: This is progress on the how to map rowgroup.
<clown> issue-700?
<trackbot> issue-700 -- Discuss rowgroup, tbody, and thead in aapis -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700
JS: What happened was Rich sent
email to Alex and the list last week.
... Alex and I engaged in a discussion about it.
... What we suggested that if rowgroup doesn't have a name and
isn't focusable, it shouldn't be exposed.
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0215.html
JS: Alex said that if it has a
role, it should be exposed and he doesn't want to have to check
if it's focusable or has a name, etc.
... In other words, Alex says if it has role="rowgroup" it
should still be exposed via the accessibility API.
CS: We don't do that, though I can understand why.
JS: Alex says it's more efficient
to just put it in.
... If you have a bare thead or tbody, they don't map it.
CS: It seems like they should be
the same.
... And they don't map every single element.
JD: There are also implications for the new non-interactive table roles (e.g. thead)
CS: We already have conditional code for role mapping.
JS: To clarify, he did say they don't do that for role="presentation".
CS: I question whether the performance impact is that big a deal.
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: If the rowgroup is focusable, then it is in the tree. We agreed on that.
CS: Anything that is focusable is in the tree.
JD: Right, but that means Orca
already has to be ready to handle a focusable rowgroup.
... Given that, the code is there, and if Orca has to deal with
a meaningless rowgroup, it can.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
JS: Last week we agreed if
rowgroup is present, but not focusable and doesn't have an
attribute, it doesn't get mapped.
... And we emailed him our conclusions.
RS: The problem is nobody else is mapping it, right?
JS: Apple isn't and I don't think
Microsoft isn't.
... And Joanie doesn't want to.
RS: I'd like to be consistent across the platforms.
JS: The impression I get is that Alex is not totally opposed to it, but he'd prefer not to have to special case this.
<clown> issue-708?
<trackbot> issue-708 -- The phrase "If not already excluded from the accessibility tree per the rules above" implies that the listed conditions do not override. Is that correct? -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708
JS: I started looking at the
rules about when to include things in the tree.
... I found there's there's "if" clause that I don't
like.
... (Reads from spec)
CS: There were some special cases
where we excluded things.
... What are the listed exclusions?
JS: (Reads from Section 5.1.1)
CS: We probably can re-open this
discussion.
... There was a lot of discussion in the past between PF and
HTML about this.
<clown> Exclusion rules: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#exclude_elements2
<clown> Inclusion rules: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#include_elements
CS: We should bring this up at the taskforce and get input from Steve and others.
<clown> ACTION: Cynthia to bring up issue-708 with the html-a11y taskforce. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1608 - Bring up issue-708 with the html-a11y taskforce. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-04-07].
<clown> action-1608?
<trackbot> action-1608 -- Cynthia Shelly to Bring up issue-708 with the html-a11y taskforce. -- due 2015-04-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1608
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/the "excluded" part/Section 5.1.1/ Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Found ScribeNick: clown Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Found ScribeNick: clown Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie ScribeNicks: clown, joanie Present: Cynthia_Shelly Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Rich_Schwerdtfeger Bryan_Garaventa Found Date: 31 Mar 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: cynthia WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]