W3C

Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

22 Jan 2015

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Addison, Richard, Mati, Somnath, David, JcK, Felix, Steve, Dennis, Koji
Regrets
Leandro
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Addison Phillips

Contents


<scribe> ACTION: addison: check Mati's presence on the distribution list, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-391 - Check mati's presence on the distribution list, etc. [on Addison Phillips - due 2015-01-29].

Agenda

Action Items

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-i18n-html-tech-char-20150127/Overview.html

<fsasaki> [nothing new on my action items and still in a different call]

action-365?

<trackbot> action-365 -- Richard Ishida to Create tombstone version of "authoring techniques for xhtml & html internationalizatoin: characters and encodings 1.0" as the end-of-life of this document -- due 2014-11-07 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/365

richard: serious change, but not much of it :-)

action-366?

<trackbot> action-366 -- Richard Ishida to Identify categories non-controversial for line-breaking to support i18n-issue-316 in css3-text -- due 2014-11-07 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/366

close action-389

<trackbot> Closed action-389.

action-390?

<trackbot> action-390 -- Richard Ishida to Forward issue-401 to indic list and shepherd response with appropriate elaboration as needed -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/390

issue-401?

<trackbot> issue-401 -- Clarify initial letter requirements and alignment points -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/401

close action-390

<trackbot> Closed action-390.

Info Share

<fsasaki> action-361?

<trackbot> action-361 -- Felix Sasaki to Check status of idns in ml data best practices -- due 2014-11-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/361

close action-361

<trackbot> Closed action-361.

DennisTan: raised an issue

issue-402?

<trackbot> issue-402 -- Broken copy/paste behavior with IRIs -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/402

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/review-instructions

richard: program cmte for MLWeb workshop is actively seeking speakers
... we highly recommend this conference :-)
... please review call for participation

<r12a> http://www.multilingualweb.eu/documents/2015-riga-workshop/2015-riga-cfp

felix: workshop is only one day this time
... please submit as soon as possible
... there are other events besides the workshop
... other events are related to language technology
... e.g. MT, search, etc.
... submit as soon as possible for MLWeb, tho

Review Radar

https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar

steve: will review LDPF this coming week

Project Radar

https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar

<scribe> ACTION: richard: follow up on lock-step publishing counter styles WG document to match CSS by checking on their status [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-392 - Follow up on lock-step publishing counter styles wg document to match css by checking on their status [on Richard Ishida - due 2015-01-29].

koji: we discuss form localization

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar#Local_Formats_and_Locales

<fsasaki> action-252?

<trackbot> action-252 -- Felix Sasaki to Ping dita folks about contacting html5 about ruby progress -- due 2013-09-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/252

<fsasaki> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2014Oct/0002.html

felix: pinged dita folks
... above link is the email with their response

close action-252

<trackbot> Closed action-252.

Indic Layout Requirements Comments

http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/67

richard: somnath has put in some edits suggested in tracker
... and added additional examples of non-Hindi/non-Devanagari initial letters
... want to discuss how best to make some changes
... perhaps I could edit and send to you?

<scribe> ACTION: richard: send somnath proposed updates to the indic layout requirements document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-393 - Send somnath proposed updates to the indic layout requirements document [on Richard Ishida - due 2015-01-29].

richard: dave cramer needs technical information about how layout are handled

somnath: have gathered information and need a little time to collate
... will send detailed requirements document

<scribe> ACTION: somnath: send richard detailed requirements for initial letters in various Indic scripts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-394 - Send richard detailed requirements for initial letters in various indic scripts [on Somnath Chandra - due 2015-01-29].

issue-407?

<trackbot> issue-407 -- Clarification of initial letter example ⓟ -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/407

richard: this issue is interesting because fixed already

addison: schedule item for review by wg and include note that not reviewed by WG yet

richard: somnath, working on two issues?

somnath: give me 4-5 days time

CSS Inline comments

issue-408?

<trackbot> issue-408 -- Centred value for intial-letter-align ⓟ -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/408

richard: went through a lot of newspapers in many scripts
... got examples
... many examples use an approach where they make a (colored) box
... with the drop cap or initial "letter" in that box
... alignment from edges of box
... not a scenario addressed by CSS
... way spec is currently written
... defines size of letter
... and the alignment with surrounding script

addison: any objection to removing the ⓟ for provisional

koji: different from ideograph?

richard: yes, because additional space around character

<r12a> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/15650930393/in/set-72157650248400402

<r12a> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/16246010056/in/set-72157650248400402

addison: illuminated cap

<r12a> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/15652027313/in/set-72157650248400402

<r12a> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/16084392688/in/set-72157650248400402/

JcK: looks like medieval illumination style in latin script

addison: maybe forward to css?

<scribe> ACTION: richard: forward issue-408 to CSS as non-provisional comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-395 - Forward issue-408 to css as non-provisional comment [on Richard Ishida - due 2015-01-29].

UTR51 Comments

http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/66

issue-397?

<trackbot> issue-397 -- Interaction of variation selectors and proposed emoji modifiers ⓟ -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/397

issue-405?

<trackbot> issue-405 -- clarify embedded image vs. character (editorial) ⓟ -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/405

richard: no objections to these

addison: any other comments, please expedite

tombstone of authoring techniques

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-i18n-html-tech-char-20150127/Overview.html

<JcK> Re the CSS issue, and at the risk of channeling Muriel Cooper (or maybe Norbert Weiner) it seems to me that there is a meta-issue here as to when style-based page formatting ends and graphical pay layout art begins, i.e., where does one stop? Again, the medieval Latin manuscript example may be helpful as a way to think about this -- there were some very specific conventions there, but...

<JcK> ...they differ by scribal school and over time and still allowed for illustrator discretion. The mind boggles about what would happen if we tried to devise an formalized typology and encoding for them. Perhaps Korean pages are is a lot more standardized in that regard, but the examples and discussion are not persuasive about that.

<DennisTan> I have to drop off. Thank you. Bye

<r12a> t is important to consider character encoding when producing documents, and to understand how to choose and declare encodings, how and when to use character escapes, etc.

richard: have blessing to continue and publish next tuesday

David: yes

addison: yes

<matial> yes

<r12a> yes

<David> +1

<JcK> +1

<koji> +1

<Steve_Atkin> Steve +1

<scribe> chair: resolved to publish this as a tombstone

chinese layout progress

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Chinese_layout_prep

richard: put together above after long call with beihang today
... main action will start in March
... tomorrow will talk with them about Han document
... getting FPWD ASAP
... charter is done
... mailing lists are done
... remainder in progress
... home pages soon

addison: that's awesome

AOB?

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: addison: check Mati's presence on the distribution list, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: follow up on lock-step publishing counter styles WG document to match CSS by checking on their status [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: forward issue-408 to CSS as non-provisional comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: send somnath proposed updates to the indic layout requirements document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: somnath: send richard detailed requirements for initial letters in various Indic scripts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
 
[End of minutes]

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