IRC log of tt on 2014-11-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-tt-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:58:25 [trackbot]
Date: 20 November 2014
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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
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+ +1.720.897.aaaa
15:00:17 [glenn]
zakim, aaaa is me
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+glenn; got it
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+nigel
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+Thierry
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+pal
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Present: glenn, pal, thierry, nigel
15:03:02 [nigel]
chair: nigel
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Regrets: jdsmith, courtney
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+Mike
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Present+ Mike
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scribeNick: nigel
15:05:19 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
15:05:57 [nigel]
nigel: Next week is a public holiday in the US, so I'm wondering if we can proceed.
15:06:16 [nigel]
nigel, glenn, pal: We're available next week
15:06:25 [nigel]
Mike: Regrets for next week
15:07:16 [nigel]
tmichel: Regrets for next week
15:07:43 [nigel]
Regrets+ Frans
15:08:10 [nigel]
nigel: We'll proceed with a meeting next week, on the 27th.
15:08:49 [nigel]
nigel: AOB?
15:08:57 [nigel]
group: no AOB raised.
15:09:50 [nigel]
nigel: Looking ahead, I've cancelled 25th December and 1st Jan meetings, and we have 3 others in December,
15:10:11 [nigel]
... which I propose to make 1 hour unless the workload increases significantly.
15:10:30 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC 1 review comments
15:10:40 [nigel]
https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/doc/
15:11:37 [nigel]
nigel: I've sent a friendly reminder to Simon Hailes requesting a response.
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15:12:25 [nigel]
tmichel: The other comments from chaals and cyril aren't so urgent because we've met their comments.
15:12:36 [nigel]
nigel: What's the process re DoC for no-response-received?
15:12:55 [nigel]
tmichel: We can tell the Director that the commenter didn't respond but we've implemented their comments.
15:13:11 [nigel]
... It's an issue mainly when the comment has not been fully addressed.
15:13:30 [nigel]
... You can always remind chaals and cyril if you want, but we can proceed regardless.
15:13:52 [nigel]
... Yellow on Yellow on the DoC is not so good, but Green and Yellow is okay.
15:14:13 [nigel]
nigel: Does this block us from moving to CR?
15:14:31 [nigel]
tmichel: We can always request transition and then make the case to the Director.
15:14:44 [nigel]
glenn: We're not going to add TTML2 features to IMSC 1 anyway, so I think we should proceed regardless.
15:15:07 [nigel]
pal: In fact we have fully addressed Simon's comments but the group did not agree with the comment. We do have consensus in the group.
15:15:34 [nigel]
tmichel: If we think that we have fully agreed to his proposal...
15:16:17 [nigel]
pal: no, we fully addressed it, but we didn't agree with it. How long should we leave it for Simon to respond?
15:16:32 [nigel]
tmichel: The ending date is today, so I think in a couple of days we can request transition, and that actually gives us
15:16:56 [nigel]
... about another week. It's good that the chair has pinged Simon again, nicely, too. I can't see the Director objecting,
15:17:03 [nigel]
... since we cannot force the commenter to respond.
15:18:24 [nigel]
PROPOSAL: To request transition of IMSC 1 to CR.
15:18:54 [nigel]
RESOLUTION: We will request transition of IMSC 1 to CR.
15:19:35 [nigel]
nigel: What's the next stage now that we've agreed that?
15:19:55 [nigel]
tmichel: We have to organise a call with the Director and send the transition request. I can start drafting the TR.
15:20:09 [nigel]
ACTION: tmichel Draft Transition Request for CR
15:20:09 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-351 - Draft transition request for cr [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-11-27].
15:20:31 [nigel]
s/Request/Request for IMSC 1
15:21:34 [nigel]
ACTION: tmichel Organise a meeting with Plh, nigel, the Director and the Editor of IMSC 1
15:21:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-352 - Organise a meeting with plh, nigel, the director and the editor of imsc 1 [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-11-27].
15:22:24 [nigel]
tmichel: We also need the exit criteria ready for the CR.
15:22:45 [nigel]
nigel: I had an action to draft that following our TPAC meeting, I'll send to pal.
15:23:03 [nigel]
ACTION: pal Update IMSC 1 ED for CR with exit criteria wording
15:23:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-353 - Update imsc 1 ed for cr with exit criteria wording [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-11-27].
15:23:13 [nigel]
pal: This is for the discussion with the Director?
15:23:16 [nigel]
tmichel: Yes.
15:23:55 [nigel]
action-333?
15:23:55 [trackbot]
action-333 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Create a one pager to cover the plan for the director's meeting for taking imsc1 to cr. -- due 2014-10-27 -- OPEN
15:23:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/333
15:25:45 [nigel]
nigel: This is for my guidance during the meeting.
15:25:58 [nigel]
tmichel: action-351 is the formal request document.
15:26:26 [nigel]
pal: So action-333 is going to be input into that larger document? It was to demonstrate wide review etc.
15:26:51 [nigel]
tmichel: I will start drafting, and if there are points I need extra information for then you can help me edit, or if there are points that are not 100% accurate.
15:28:20 [nigel]
nigel: I think the meeting details will be richer than the transition doc. I would like Pierre to review Thierry's draft first,
15:28:26 [nigel]
... and then I'll send it.
15:28:34 [nigel]
tmichel: I'll send it tomorrow.
15:28:43 [nigel]
action-348?
15:28:43 [trackbot]
action-348 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Thank dvb for input re lc-2983 -- due 2014-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
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http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/348
15:28:52 [nigel]
close action-348
15:28:52 [trackbot]
Closed action-348.
15:28:55 [nigel]
action-350?
15:28:55 [trackbot]
action-350 -- Nigel Megitt to Set the status of the imsc 1 review comments -- due 2014-11-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:28:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/350
15:29:06 [nigel]
close action-350
15:29:06 [trackbot]
Closed action-350.
15:30:09 [nigel]
Mike: I haven't seen the DECE response to W3C go anywhere.
15:31:26 [nigel]
nigel: I couldn't do anything it directly because it requests non-posting.
15:31:54 [nigel]
Mike: I was expecting someone with access to the file space to pull the files from the link and put them on a W3C space
15:32:11 [nigel]
... and then post a shortened form of the response excluding the link.
15:32:43 [nigel]
nigel: Where should the files go? We didn't conclude on use of github or Mercurial for the test files.
15:33:29 [nigel]
pal: I think we'll transition to github at some point but for the time being I suggest keeping them in Mercurial.
15:33:48 [nigel]
... I'm happy to make a directory under IMSC under Mercurial and upload all those files. When we switch to github we'll
15:33:54 [nigel]
... transition everything together.
15:34:20 [nigel]
nigel: I'll send pal the email with the link so he can do that.
15:36:11 [nigel]
Mike: I'll deal with this with Pierre and redact the email and post to the appropriate mailing list.
15:37:21 [nigel]
... for now I'll send the edited liaison to member-tt
15:37:46 [nigel]
Topic: Action Items
15:39:03 [nigel]
nigel: There's no progress to discuss on any of the overdue open action items.
15:39:23 [nigel]
Topic: Issues
15:39:49 [nigel]
nigel: We have 4 raised issues:
15:39:53 [nigel]
issue-354?
15:39:53 [trackbot]
issue-354 -- Add support for letter spacing style semantics -- raised
15:39:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/354
15:40:38 [nigel]
glenn: This and the marquee style came from looking at ARIB-TT. The text emphasis and tate-chu-yoko came
15:40:47 [nigel]
... from seeing other omissions.
15:41:01 [nigel]
pal: How is Issue-354 related to Issue-236?
15:41:03 [nigel]
issue-236?
15:41:03 [trackbot]
issue-236 -- Character spacing, i.e. letter-spacing -- open
15:41:03 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/236
15:41:41 [nigel]
issue-354: [TTWG meeting] This may be a duplicate of issue-236
15:41:41 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-354 Add support for letter spacing style semantics.
15:41:53 [nigel]
reopen issue-354
15:41:53 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-354.
15:42:09 [nigel]
issue-355?
15:42:09 [trackbot]
issue-355 -- Add support for marquee style semantics -- raised
15:42:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/355
15:42:21 [nigel]
reopen issue-355
15:42:21 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-355.
15:42:39 [nigel]
glenn: That's a shorthand version for doing a specific kind of animation like a ticker marquee text animation.
15:43:02 [nigel]
... I need to review if that can be related to the TTML2 animate element - if it can we may not need to add any features.
15:43:21 [nigel]
... At the worst case I want to document how the marquee style can be mapped to some TTML2 feature set.
15:44:06 [nigel]
Mike: We've had a couple of helpful private contacts but no official contact with ARIB.
15:44:23 [nigel]
... I wonder if it would be helpful to communicate with ARIB themselves to understand what they're doing?
15:44:31 [nigel]
pal: Test vectors would be helpful too.
15:45:15 [nigel]
pal: We would want to avoid implementing something in TTML2 that doesn't actually meet the ARIB requirements so
15:45:18 [nigel]
... the more detail the better.
15:46:00 [nigel]
Mike: I will investigate who the formal contact is at ARIB
15:46:13 [nigel]
Action: mdolan Investigate formal contact at ARIB
15:46:14 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-354 - Investigate formal contact at arib [on Mike Dolan - due 2014-11-27].
15:46:23 [nigel]
issue-356?
15:46:23 [trackbot]
issue-356 -- Add support for text emphasis semantics -- raised
15:46:23 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/356
15:46:33 [nigel]
reopen issue-356
15:46:33 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-356.
15:46:59 [nigel]
glenn: The Japanese subtitling system lambda-cap commonly uses emphasis marks, a bit like the Japanese way of doing
15:47:31 [nigel]
... italics. They put some mark over or under or right or left of the text to be emphasised.
15:47:52 [nigel]
... We need it to support that Japanese requirement. The CSS 3 Text decoration module defines it, so I intend to use those
15:47:59 [nigel]
... semantics when drafting a new style property.
15:48:32 [nigel]
glenn: This comes out of industry requirements not ARIB-TT. I'm working with some people on supporting features in the
15:48:42 [nigel]
... deployed Japanese subtitling market.
15:48:55 [nigel]
pal: Can you point us to an example or add them to the issue?
15:49:15 [nigel]
glenn: Yes, I'll add some description.
15:49:36 [nigel]
issue-357?
15:49:36 [trackbot]
issue-357 -- Add support for horizontal in vertical (tate-chu-yoko). -- raised
15:49:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/357
15:50:18 [nigel]
Glenn: this is basically a text orientation option that we don't yet support.
15:50:39 [nigel]
... If you have vertical lines with a couple of small horizontal characters like digits or Latin characters then they will
15:51:02 [nigel]
... often be laid out horizontally if the em-squares of the horizontal pieces can add up to the horizontal width of the vertical line.
15:51:16 [nigel]
... We'd be borrowing it from the CSS 3 module.
15:51:21 [nigel]
pal: How does it relate to issue-229?
15:51:24 [nigel]
issue-229?
15:51:24 [trackbot]
issue-229 -- Mixed vertical-horizontal progression direction -- open
15:51:24 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/229
15:51:59 [nigel]
pal: It's encouraging that there's alignment between the SMPTE requests and the Japanese features.
15:52:10 [nigel]
issue-357: This may be a duplicate of issue-229
15:52:11 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-357 Add support for horizontal in vertical (tate-chu-yoko)..
15:53:04 [nigel]
issue-273?
15:53:04 [trackbot]
issue-273 -- Map fontFamily to external font file resources -- open
15:53:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/273
15:53:16 [nigel]
nigel: I suggest we park this for now since we've been discussing on the reflector successfully.
15:53:46 [nigel]
glenn: I've been working on this lately and 3 other issues, and will post soon - embedded data, content including fonts, images and audio will be addressed.
15:54:14 [nigel]
pal: I'm happy to follow up on the reflector because I'm confused as to what's broken in the current font face provision in TTML.
15:54:27 [nigel]
glenn: There's nothing broken, but we have no way to specify author-supplied fonts.
15:54:43 [nigel]
pal: But an author can specify any font name, including referring to a font file accompanying the TTML file.
15:55:14 [nigel]
glenn: There's no explicit linkage defined like you've just suggested for associating a font family name in a TTML file
15:55:20 [nigel]
... with a specific font resource.
15:55:46 [nigel]
glenn: Going back to "afxp" we had a requirement to support downloadable fonts. We did not allow external references
15:56:13 [nigel]
... before but now that we're going to it's not much change.
15:56:29 [nigel]
pal: I'll take this up on the reflector. We need to be clear what we're trying to achieve.
15:56:49 [nigel]
issue-305?
15:56:49 [trackbot]
issue-305 -- Registry of TTML profiles and short names -- pending review
15:56:49 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/305
15:57:30 [nigel]
Mike: I don't think we're expecting more comms to/from MPEG except for a completed registry.
15:57:34 [nigel]
close issue-305
15:57:34 [trackbot]
Closed issue-305.
15:57:45 [nigel]
Topic: TTML versions
15:57:53 [nigel]
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/5ee90ec0d897/ttml-status/index.html
15:58:19 [nigel]
nigel: We now have a product on tracker for this document. It'd be good if everyone could review it.
15:58:51 [nigel]
Topic: TTML2
15:59:32 [nigel]
nigel: We have 6 open CPs priority 1 to close before TTML2 FPWD - are the priorities correct?
15:59:56 [nigel]
glenn: I think the priorities are correct and am now back 'on point' and should make good progress soon.
16:00:13 [nigel]
... We should be as complete as possible for FPWD because that's when the IPR process starts.
16:00:44 [nigel]
nigel: We need a revised timeline - glenn can we work offline to put one together?
16:00:51 [nigel]
glenn: I'm happy to do that.
16:00:59 [Zakim]
-Mike
16:00:59 [nigel]
Mike: Have a good thanksgiving all
16:01:35 [Zakim]
-glenn
16:01:36 [Zakim]
-pal
16:01:44 [Zakim]
-nigel
16:02:16 [nigel]
nigel: We're out of time so I'll adjourn. We will meet next week, but for those celebrating Thanksgiving, have a good one.
16:02:23 [nigel]
[adjourns meeting]
16:02:30 [nigel]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:02:36 [nigel]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:02:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:08:49 [nigel]
s/anything it/anything with it
16:09:31 [nigel]
s/so he can do that./so he can do that. [Update: done during meeting]
16:13:07 [nigel]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:13:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:15:32 [nigel]
ScribeOptions: -noEmbedDiagnostics -final
16:15:33 [nigel]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:15:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:02:08 [Zakim]
-Thierry
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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were +1.720.897.aaaa, glenn, nigel, Thierry, pal, Mike
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