IRC log of social on 2014-11-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:48:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #social
17:48:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-social-irc
17:50:14 [tommorris]
tommorris has left #social
17:50:18 [tommorris]
tommorris has joined #social
17:50:19 [tommorris]
tommorris has left #social
17:55:53 [jasnell]
jasnell has joined #social
17:56:29 [Zakim]
T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has now started
17:56:36 [Zakim]
+jasnell
17:56:58 [Zakim]
+??P6
17:57:22 [jasnell]
hey elf.. I'm on, but I'm muted
17:57:30 [elf-pavlik]
ok :)
17:57:37 [caseorganic]
caseorganic has joined #social
17:57:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.314.777.aaaa
17:58:06 [AdamB]
zakim, aaaa is AdamB
17:58:06 [Zakim]
+AdamB; got it
17:58:17 [Zakim]
+??P8
17:58:22 [cwebber2]
that last one's me
17:58:56 [Zakim]
+??P9
17:59:06 [oshepherd]
Zakim: ??P9 is me
17:59:11 [oshepherd]
Zakim, ??P9 is me
17:59:11 [Zakim]
+oshepherd; got it
17:59:28 [Zakim]
+Ann
17:59:34 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:59:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jasnell, elf-pavlik, AdamB, cwebber2, oshepherd, Ann
18:00:14 [Zakim]
+[Mozilla]
18:00:16 [Arnaud]
Arnaud has joined #social
18:00:19 [hhalpin]
Zakim, what's the code?
18:00:19 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), hhalpin
18:00:23 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:00:24 [Zakim]
+aaronpk
18:00:25 [tantek]
Zakim, Tantek is in Mozilla
18:00:25 [Zakim]
+Tantek; got it
18:00:30 [wilkie]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
18:00:30 [Zakim]
+wilkie; got it
18:00:43 [Zakim]
+Wendy
18:00:47 [tantek]
trackbot, start meeting
18:00:49 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
18:00:51 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SOCL
18:00:51 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now
18:00:52 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
18:00:52 [trackbot]
Date: 18 November 2014
18:01:13 [cwebber2]
I could scribe
18:01:21 [dret]
dret has joined #social
18:01:24 [cwebber2]
np
18:01:32 [elf-pavlik]
scribenick: cwebber2
18:01:40 [tantek]
scribe: cwebber2
18:01:41 [cwebber2]
I kinda like scribing
18:01:44 [Zakim]
+Sandro
18:01:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.514.554.aabb
18:01:47 [cwebber2]
oops, shouldn't have said that ;)
18:01:51 [Loqi]
:D
18:02:03 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:02:10 [wseltzer]
zakim, aabb is evanp
18:02:10 [Zakim]
+evanp; got it
18:02:14 [hhalpin]
Zakim, IPcaller is hhalpin
18:02:14 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
18:02:20 [evanp]
Thanks wseltzer
18:02:44 [cwebber2]
tantek: so we have a scribe, first thing to do is to approve the minutes of last call
18:02:46 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-11-11-minutes
18:02:59 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:03:01 [cwebber2]
any objections?
18:03:04 [cwebber2]
any corrections?
18:03:12 [dret]
zakim, ipcaller is me
18:03:12 [Zakim]
+dret; got it
18:03:16 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: Approval of Minutes of 11 November 2014 Teleconf
18:03:27 [elf-pavlik]
cwebber2++
18:03:30 [Loqi]
cwebber2 has 5 karma
18:03:33 [evanp]
Thanks Chris
18:03:34 [hhalpin]
PROPOSAL: approved minutes of last telecon: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-11-11-minutes
18:03:36 [cwebber2]
tantek: hearing no objections on irc, I'm declaring the minutes approved, move on
18:03:38 [evanp]
+1
18:03:43 [elf-pavlik]
+1
18:03:43 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: approved minutes of last telecon: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-11-11-minutes
18:03:52 [cwebber2]
if anyone finds problems/typos, edit after the fact, it's a wiki
18:04:09 [cwebber2]
next week's teleconference is on as far as we know, we know it's thanksgiving in the US
18:04:28 [cwebber2]
so if you have regrets(?) if you can't show up to the wiki, that would be appreciated
18:04:37 [cwebber2]
add to the regrets section
18:04:38 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-11-25 - please add yourself to regrets if you can't make it
18:04:52 [Shane]
Shane has joined #social
18:05:03 [cwebber2]
next go through tracking of actions & issues
18:05:11 [cwebber2]
we have 8 open issues
18:05:30 [hhalpin]
At TPAC, we were moving to nouns
18:05:38 [cwebber2]
issue 3: open issue, don't see anything new on this, can we drop or continue asynchronously?
18:05:41 [jasnell]
continuing work on this piece
18:05:41 [evanp]
async
18:05:43 [wilkie]
cwebber2: make a new TOPIC section, you'll thank yourself later
18:05:44 [jasnell]
async
18:05:55 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: wilkie: ok :)
18:05:58 [evanp]
I don't think any of these issues have additional developments this week
18:06:03 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: discussing open issues
18:06:13 [elf-pavlik]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/open
18:06:16 [cwebber2]
issue 4, do we rely on property name or duck typing
18:06:41 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: who's speaking?
18:06:57 [cwebber2]
sandro: going through the tracker seems unusual
18:07:18 [cwebber2]
tantek: if nobody has objections, unless we have issues that require synchronous discussion, we'll just continue and address it asynchornously
18:07:24 [elf-pavlik]
open actions: http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/open
18:07:36 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: Coordination with IG
18:07:44 [cwebber2]
oh
18:07:45 [cwebber2]
sorry
18:07:54 [sandro]
action-4?
18:07:54 [trackbot]
action-4 -- Arnaud Le Hors to Add "what is the role of social wg, ig and cg?" as an faq to https://www.w3.org/wiki/socialwg#faq -- due 2014-09-23 -- OPEN
18:07:54 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/4
18:08:17 [Zakim]
+??P20
18:08:23 [cwebber2]
harry: I emailed brad fitzpatrick
18:08:26 [cwebber2]
don't know him well
18:08:35 [evanp]
q+
18:08:38 [cwebber2]
tantek: this is just pubsubhubbub, right?
18:08:46 [Jessica_Lily]
Zakim: +??P20 is me
18:08:47 [elf-pavlik]
i can ask on http://www.w3.org/community/pubsub/ list
18:08:48 [tantek]
ack evanp
18:08:52 [cwebber2]
could you add to the actions clarifying pubsubhubbub?
18:08:55 [cwebber2]
harry: yes
18:09:04 [Jessica_Lily]
hm did I do that right?
18:09:10 [cwebber2]
evanpro: I think clint (?) was managing PuSH stuff at Google
18:09:16 [evanp]
dewitt clinton
18:09:19 [tantek]
s/clint/dewitt clinton
18:09:21 [Jessica_Lily]
ah thanks!
18:09:25 [cwebber2]
evanp: dewitt clinton
18:09:27 [Jessica_Lily]
Zakim: ??P20 is me
18:09:38 [cwebber2]
tantek: can you coordinate and update action?
18:09:40 [cwebber2]
evanp: yes
18:09:42 [Jessica_Lily]
leave the ?'s off too? :P
18:09:46 [wilkie]
Jessica_Lily: comma, not colon
18:09:59 [Jessica_Lily]
Zakim, ??P20 is me
18:09:59 [Zakim]
+Jessica_Lily; got it
18:10:06 [Jessica_Lily]
super! thanks wilkie
18:10:08 [wseltzer]
action-6?
18:10:08 [trackbot]
action-6 -- Harry Halpin to Cycle with wendy and google on push licensing -- due 2014-11-04 -- OPEN
18:10:08 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/6
18:10:09 [wilkie]
np! :)
18:10:11 [tantek]
evan and harry to coordinate on http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/5
18:10:12 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: I'm not sure what the topic is on this one
18:10:13 [cwebber2]
oh
18:10:14 [tantek]
see http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/6
18:10:15 [cwebber2]
I see.
18:10:24 [hhalpin]
notes Action 5 and Action 6 are basically the same
18:10:43 [cwebber2]
tantek: let's just coordinate this week, if action 5 and 6 are the same, collapse it
18:11:01 [wseltzer]
trackbot, close action-6
18:11:02 [trackbot]
Closed action-6.
18:11:04 [cwebber2]
harry: I think they're the same
18:11:17 [hhalpin]
So I'm closing Issue 5 since the answer is "no"
18:11:17 [cwebber2]
tantek: will leave that to you harry, so evan can handle dewitt
18:11:23 [tantek]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/8
18:11:27 [hhalpin]
and I'll keep Issue 6 open.
18:11:30 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/8
18:11:31 [jasnell]
yes. one sec
18:11:39 [hhalpin]
And cc wendy on email to BradFitz and Evan, who can then forward that to Clinton DeWitt
18:11:49 [evanp]
Zakim, who's making noise?
18:11:53 [cwebber2]
tantek: our official liason kevin (?) is on the call
18:12:00 [Zakim]
evanp, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Mozilla] (19%), jasnell (80%), Jessica_Lily (59%)
18:12:02 [hhalpin]
s/kevin/Kevin Marks
18:12:03 [Jessica_Lily]
hm is mine not muted?
18:12:08 [Jessica_Lily]
oh thanks
18:12:13 [Jessica_Lily]
I muted myself in ekiga
18:12:14 [cwebber2]
james: there's been no further progress, the annotation working group is working on getting the next model out
18:12:31 [cwebber2]
looking at vocabulary looking at defining vocabulary or equivalencies
18:12:34 [cwebber2]
the ball is in their court
18:12:35 [evanp]
q+
18:12:36 [cwebber2]
they are aware
18:12:52 [Jessica_Lily]
elf-pavlik: okay cool thanks
18:13:05 [cwebber2]
tantek: my question is are there any other groups working on annotations overlap
18:13:23 [cwebber2]
if any future groups are working on it, please coordinate
18:13:26 [cwebber2]
eg with HTML
18:13:35 [cwebber2]
that's my suspicion, thinking architecturally
18:13:49 [cwebber2]
high level working groups at W3C are working on concept of "share"
18:13:56 [cwebber2]
james: yep
18:14:00 [evanp]
q-
18:14:06 [elf-pavlik]
also https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Sharing/API
18:14:07 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/9 Need candidates for federation protocol
18:14:13 [tantek]
www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/9
18:14:21 [cwebber2]
james: it's in progress, evan's posted thoughts on this
18:14:28 [cwebber2]
I've posted thoughts yesterday to evolve this schema
18:14:31 [cwebber2]
see how they fit best
18:14:38 [cwebber2]
it's def a work in progress, not quite there yet
18:14:43 [evanp]
q+
18:14:53 [cwebber2]
tantek: does this relate to the work you and I did on adapting (??) to activitystreams 2.0 docs?
18:14:58 [cwebber2]
microformats
18:15:04 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Microformats_Mapping
18:15:12 [Zakim]
-elf-pavlik
18:15:18 [cwebber2]
james: yes, I'm working on modeling the mapping in the json-ld and the AS examples
18:15:23 [cwebber2]
will see by the end of the week
18:15:28 [cwebber2]
tantek: can you get it into the existing draft?
18:15:38 [cwebber2]
james: Yes, hoping to get an appendix discussing HTML rendering
18:15:45 [cwebber2]
don't want to confuse it with too many serializations
18:15:51 [Zakim]
+??P6
18:15:57 [cwebber2]
as for inline examples, you can click to view with json-ld
18:16:05 [cwebber2]
becoming fairly common in a number of diff drafts
18:16:06 [rhiaro]
+1 tabs for inline examples
18:16:23 [cwebber2]
tantek: great, would love to see the demo incorporated into the editor's draft as you see fit, at least have a HTML rendering
18:16:28 [cwebber2]
as we get more and more adoption
18:16:36 [cwebber2]
our job is to document interop
18:16:41 [cwebber2]
that concludes the actions
18:16:55 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: Social API
18:17:05 [cwebber2]
tantek: there's multiple iterations, the social API candidates and patterns
18:17:22 [tantek]
q?
18:17:28 [tantek]
ack evanp
18:17:31 [elf-pavlik]
q+ re: Gathering feedback on various Socialwg/Social API candidates
18:17:46 [cwebber2]
evanp: yeah, I'm on the queue from before re: AS, but the main thing is I edited this
18:18:05 [tantek]
five step procedure: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API
18:18:08 [cwebber2]
elf put himself on the queue, so I want to jump in here to say there's a 5-step procedure to identify patterns to use/inform our social API understanding
18:18:13 [cwebber2]
second to do analysis of existing APIs
18:18:21 [cwebber2]
third to generate requirements of things we can do
18:18:32 [cwebber2]
or at least must haves/like to have/don't need
18:18:38 [cwebber2]
and then start looking at / evaluating candidates
18:18:52 [cwebber2]
took some time this week to start breaking down existing patterns / APIs we have on our patterns list
18:18:57 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/API_requirements
18:19:07 [cwebber2]
if we have 3-5 minutes, would love to go over twitter api and break things down
18:19:12 [cwebber2]
which could help us break down other APIs
18:19:23 [cwebber2]
tantek: let's put that at the end of the agenda, is that ok?
18:19:26 [cwebber2]
evanp: sounds great
18:19:50 [cwebber2]
my main point is that we're nowhere near evaluating candidates
18:19:56 [cwebber2]
we still have much to do before we get there
18:20:00 [Shane]
That list is missing webmention, is that intentional?
18:20:02 [cwebber2]
tantek: that's at step 2 and 3?
18:20:07 [cwebber2]
evanp: yes
18:20:13 [cwebber2]
tantek: okay, that's good to know where we are
18:20:15 [tantek]
q?
18:20:20 [tantek]
ack elf-pavlik
18:20:20 [Zakim]
elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss Gathering feedback on various Socialwg/Social API candidates
18:20:22 [elf-pavlik]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API_candidates
18:20:39 [cwebber2]
elf-pavlik: I just created sections for each candidate on the wiki
18:20:40 [evanp]
Shane: I think Webmention is a server-to-server protocol rather than a client-to-server API
18:20:52 [cwebber2]
we want to look at other APIs, but many of us look at it anyhow that we should take notes
18:21:06 [cwebber2]
for example, with micropub, it has (???) nest resources
18:21:16 [cwebber2]
so once I noticed that I started collecting feedback
18:21:28 [Zakim]
-wilkie
18:21:32 [cwebber2]
we don't have to rush, but I'm trying to create space and encouraging people to take notes
18:21:34 [Shane]
evanp: Ah yes, I see. Been following along on IRC (due to circumstances re audio) so didn't quite realise we're talking just client-to-server now :)
18:21:43 [evanp]
NP
18:22:05 [cwebber2]
tantek: that's right, I think we're not at the point we can eval candidates w/ respect to each other, but I think i'll echo elf-pavlik that we should all look and add nodes if we find issues and what implications of the social api are
18:22:07 [evanp]
It's not 100% clear that maintaining a distinction between those two is necessary
18:22:14 [cwebber2]
that way we can async gather feedback on candidates
18:22:19 [cwebber2]
does anyone object?
18:22:41 [elf-pavlik]
roger!
18:22:43 [cwebber2]
evanp: no objection, I think we should understand where we are in the process
18:22:45 [tantek]
q?
18:22:47 [cwebber2]
tantek: agreed, grat
18:22:48 [cwebber2]
great
18:23:04 [cwebber2]
nobody else is on the speaker queue, anyone else have anything to add re: social API?
18:23:34 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: go over twitter api in particular
18:23:48 [evanp]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Twitter_API
18:23:53 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: elf-pavlik: yeah trying to, sorry
18:23:55 [cwebber2]
it's new to me
18:24:14 [cwebber2]
evanp: here's link to the twitter api, how it does, how it works, identifying functional parts of that API, what you can do, how they work
18:24:21 [cwebber2]
the twitter API is a relatively big API
18:24:28 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:24:30 [wilkie]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
18:24:30 [Zakim]
+wilkie; got it
18:24:36 [cwebber2]
has single method with oauth api A?
18:25:03 [cwebber2]
which is specifically for twitter model: monolithic model for following, posting a "tweet" short message, which hits timeline of all followers.
18:25:08 [cwebber2]
standard pattern for social entworks
18:25:12 [reedstrm]
reedstrm has joined #social
18:25:15 [cwebber2]
in twitter API, uses custom json encoding
18:25:38 [cwebber2]
a few important entities: user represents account holder. Tweets have content of message, but also creation date, author info, geolocation data, etc
18:25:48 [Shane]
Should we take the old Twitter API into consideration as well? The new (OAuth) one has caused limitations for some developers, which we of course need to avoid
18:25:48 [cwebber2]
separate data type for direct (1:1) messages between users
18:25:57 [cwebber2]
I broke down the entities
18:26:10 [tantek]
this is great analysis evanp: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Twitter_API
18:26:15 [cwebber2]
in particular, a collection entity for catching multiple messages
18:26:24 [tantek]
Shane, can you q+ to ask your question?
18:26:27 [cwebber2]
bunched up endpoints into a few functional groups
18:26:34 [AdamB]
very nice work evanp
18:26:40 [cwebber2]
most important for twitter is CRUD (create read update delete)
18:26:50 [cwebber2]
you can get in various formats: either in native format or OEmbed
18:26:52 [Shane]
tantek: I can but have no audio so will have to just ask on irc
18:26:54 [Shane]
q+
18:27:01 [cwebber2]
every user has an "outbox", a stream of tweets they created which is readable
18:27:07 [reedstrm]
Zakim, SOCL
18:27:07 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'SOCL', reedstrm
18:27:10 [cwebber2]
as well as a stream of tweets by people they follow, their "inbox"
18:27:17 [cwebber2]
there's also a stream of tweets sent directly to that user
18:27:20 [oshepherd]
Shane: I'm not sure how OAuth has caused limitations for anyone
18:27:47 [aaronpk]
the crypto part of OAuth 1 was a hurdle for many developers, both on the provider side and consumer side
18:27:47 [cwebber2]
if you haven't looked at this API, it's confusing, there's a direct message, but ther's also "mentions", which are when people brought you into the conversation but it's a public conversation
18:27:58 [cwebber2]
there's stuff for handling inbox/outbox as well as CRUD for messages
18:28:02 [cwebber2]
it's a one-way follow mechanism
18:28:06 [aaronpk]
this is well documented, and was much of the motivation for designing OAuth 2 to not include the crypto requirement
18:28:08 [cwebber2]
you can create and update that ofllow mechanism
18:28:18 [cwebber2]
typically does not require approval, though possible for it to do so
18:28:25 [cwebber2]
cluster of API endpoints for managing your accounts
18:28:32 [cwebber2]
eg, change profile info, name, location, etc
18:28:44 [cwebber2]
twitter users have homepage and can manage their homepage design
18:28:54 [cwebber2]
there's a cluster of API endpoints for blocking users, muting, etc
18:29:02 [cwebber2]
blocking prevents another person from contacting you at all
18:29:08 [cwebber2]
mute just makes them not show up
18:29:15 [cwebber2]
similar, but different in implementation
18:29:20 [Zakim]
-oshepherd
18:29:22 [cwebber2]
there's a cluster of content search apis
18:29:31 [cwebber2]
there's a user search api cluster
18:29:39 [Zakim]
+??P9
18:29:47 [tantek]
who just joined?
18:29:47 [cwebber2]
as well as a cluster of apis for suggestions of who to follow
18:29:55 [cwebber2]
ther'es a cluster for favorites
18:30:09 [cwebber2]
there's a contact list cluster, which is a complex mechanism in the api
18:30:15 [cwebber2]
can create lists of users, can share with others
18:30:24 [cwebber2]
can follow your lists
18:30:29 [cwebber2]
eg you can make "heads of state in the EU"
18:30:31 [elf-pavlik]
q+ re: Some accounts can be posted to by multiple authenticated users.
18:30:33 [cwebber2]
it's a way to curate streams
18:30:35 [cwebber2]
within twitter
18:30:55 [cwebber2]
because twitter uses its own geographical vocab, there's a cluster of API endpoints for managing those places
18:31:07 [cwebber2]
as well as cluster of API endpoints for trends
18:31:15 [cwebber2]
a measure of popularity
18:31:36 [cwebber2]
cluster of enpoints for managing users??
18:31:44 [cwebber2]
mechanism to report spam
18:31:58 [cwebber2]
so, this is a remarkably broad api
18:32:02 [richlitt]
richlitt has joined #social
18:32:12 [hhalpin]
q+ Twitter Cards
18:32:15 [cwebber2]
but the objects for person/tweets, has a lot of properties
18:32:17 [hhalpin]
q- Twitter
18:32:20 [hhalpin]
q- Cards
18:32:24 [hhalpin]
q+ hhalpin
18:32:29 [cwebber2]
there's a lot that's not here, especially because there's no way to track activities
18:32:39 [cwebber2]
they don't have something like the activitystream model
18:32:45 [cwebber2]
tantek: thanks, that's a great overview evanp
18:33:03 [tantek]
http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Features
18:33:05 [cwebber2]
I went ahead and added some stuff to the features side to the bottom of the page with the features list
18:33:06 [evanp]
Fantastic
18:33:06 [Zakim]
+??P22
18:33:12 [cwebber2]
in case you want to compare what the API allows
18:33:19 [cwebber2]
as you can tell, there are gaps in their API
18:33:25 [Shane]
Yes, thank you evanp (and cwebber2), very useful
18:33:28 [cwebber2]
you see some kind of activitystream in their UI, but
18:33:34 [tantek]
q?
18:33:35 [cwebber2]
those arn't all visible in the api as far as I can tell
18:33:42 [tantek]
ack Shane
18:33:44 [cwebber2]
let me go to the queue
18:33:55 [tantek]
go ahead Shane
18:33:55 [cwebber2]
I think I remember Shane saying he's only on IRC
18:34:03 [Shane]
My question was "Should we take the old Twitter API into consideration as well? The new (OAuth) one has caused limitations for some developers, which we of course need to avoid"
18:34:17 [Shane]
But I think the issues were OAuth and rate limiting, rather than actual API issues
18:34:21 [cwebber2]
tantek: I think that's a reasonable question
18:34:38 [cwebber2]
instead of just what the api could do, maybe what the api has dropped
18:34:44 [evanp]
q+
18:34:49 [cwebber2]
evanp: I can respond to that
18:35:03 [cwebber2]
I think that the big differences between previous versions and current versions surrounded representations
18:35:13 [cwebber2]
previously XML, ATOM, etc
18:35:18 [cwebber2]
those have been slimmed down
18:35:34 [cwebber2]
yes, there was HTTP Basic, methods for mechanisms to go around the OAuth system
18:35:40 [cwebber2]
but OAuth is mandatory as of a few years ago
18:35:50 [cwebber2]
maybe what we can do is note that on the analysis
18:35:57 [cwebber2]
tantek: that would be great
18:36:01 [tantek]
q?
18:36:03 [cwebber2]
it's useful also to see experiences of other parties
18:36:08 [tantek]
ack elf-pavlik
18:36:08 [Zakim]
elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss Some accounts can be posted to by multiple authenticated users.
18:36:22 [cwebber2]
elf-pavlik: I wanted to ask about accounts posted by multiple users(?)
18:36:36 [cwebber2]
I know many people were criticizing ostatus/diaspora/etc for having no group functionality
18:36:41 [cwebber2]
how do groups work?
18:36:46 [cwebber2]
evanp: I can respond to this
18:36:54 [cwebber2]
this is not a group mechanism like an interest group
18:37:01 [cwebber2]
it's a way to do brand management on twitter
18:37:25 [elf-pavlik]
ok, thanks!
18:37:28 [cwebber2]
if you are GM or Orange brand managers, they can all post as if they're BP, Orange, GM
18:37:34 [cwebber2]
so mainly a brand management system
18:37:45 [oshepherd]
(This is one area where my suggested Agent/Person deliniation comes in)
18:37:47 [cwebber2]
tantek: I believe that feature exists but is not public?
18:37:54 [cwebber2]
evanp: yes, I believe it exists but is not public
18:38:13 [AnnBassetti]
q+
18:38:15 [cwebber2]
tantek: okay, so this is something you can take on to document
18:38:18 [cwebber2]
evanp: will do
18:38:22 [tantek]
ack hhalpin
18:38:40 [cwebber2]
harry: I wonder about relationship to twitter cards
18:38:46 [hhalpin]
https://dev.twitter.com/cards/overview
18:38:51 [cwebber2]
this is a fancy way of saying rich media in our twitter feed
18:39:07 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: (for notes: harry is hhalpin, my bad)
18:39:12 [hhalpin]
http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/08/its-time-for-an-open-standard-for-cards/
18:39:21 [tantek]
see analysis on cards here as well: http://indiewebcamp.com/card
18:39:25 [hhalpin]
anything genuinely new here?
18:39:27 [cwebber2]
hhalpin: I wonder if anyone is aiming to rebrand rich media stuff as cards
18:39:27 [elf-pavlik]
s/harry/hhalpin/
18:39:29 [Shane]
I really like the way cards work
18:39:30 [AnnBassetti]
that was an interesting article .. glad you brought it up
18:39:38 [cwebber2]
tantek: I think that's related to what they consume as links
18:39:45 [cwebber2]
as opposed to what you consume as endpoints
18:40:10 [cwebber2]
what do you think evanp? should we document scope of what twitter calls out to, as well as what you can call twitter with?
18:40:14 [AnnBassetti]
is that card concept only in Twitter?
18:40:19 [cwebber2]
evanp: yes, I think that's interesting, I'm not familliar with twitter cards
18:40:22 [Shane]
From that article "Whoever defines the standard, the W3C is where it should live, just like HTML, logically belongs."
18:40:28 [cwebber2]
I seem to remember there's some oembed usage here
18:40:28 [tantek]
see some analysis on Twitter Cards here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter_Cards
18:40:53 [cwebber2]
for people who aren't familiar, with certain links posted to a tweet, if it's to a well known domain like youtube.com, twitter will display some rich content inline
18:41:01 [elf-pavlik]
i think they use OEmbed
18:41:02 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #social
18:41:04 [cwebber2]
so you don't have to click through to youtube, it will show an embedded video
18:41:12 [evanp]
http://www.oembed.com/
18:41:12 [cwebber2]
I think they use oembed, but I'm not sure
18:41:19 [cwebber2]
so worth taking a look at
18:41:30 [cwebber2]
tantek: proposed action is to make a subsection on twitter api analysis
18:41:37 [cwebber2]
here's what twitter 3ecalls out to
18:41:43 [cwebber2]
(-3e)
18:41:55 [cwebber2]
here's a link to indiewebcamp of what twitter cards do
18:41:56 [tantek]
http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview
18:42:09 [cwebber2]
oembed is one mechanism to the more general UI of link preview
18:42:14 [cwebber2]
we can document this
18:42:21 [tantek]
q?
18:42:26 [cwebber2]
card sharing seems one example to us
18:42:45 [cwebber2]
hhalpin: just trying to figure out if it's a rebranding of rich media
18:42:54 [hhalpin]
anyone know Nova Spivack?
18:42:59 [cwebber2]
tantek: feel free to invite people working on cards, I think that's in scope
18:43:03 [hhalpin]
he should be pinged over this WG
18:43:10 [AnnBassetti]
good idea
18:43:10 [tantek]
q?
18:43:15 [tantek]
ack evanp
18:43:39 [cwebber2]
evanp: I think the reason I put myself on the queue that this analysis is obv on the wiki, anyone can manage or edit it
18:43:49 [cwebber2]
I just ask that since the intent of the document is to understand clusters of functionality
18:43:52 [cwebber2]
we maintain those clusters
18:43:56 [cwebber2]
don't edit out the clusters
18:44:14 [cwebber2]
the other thing is we have 6 proprietary apis and 7 open apis
18:44:23 [sandro]
q+
18:44:26 [cwebber2]
so that's 10-12 apis that could stand this level of analysis
18:44:37 [cwebber2]
I'd like members to stepward and do this
18:44:45 [cwebber2]
it took a few hours to do for twitter
18:44:52 [cwebber2]
could people please help do analysis on others?
18:44:57 [cwebber2]
tantek: yes, esp if you like one of those patterns
18:45:03 [cwebber2]
please help document it
18:45:09 [cwebber2]
that will help us with comparison/analysis stages
18:45:14 [cwebber2]
thx evanp
18:45:16 [tantek]
q?
18:45:19 [jasnell]
It's also likely worth looking at the use cases documented here: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Expanded_Vocabulary
18:45:20 [tantek]
ack AnnBassetti
18:45:23 [Shane]
Flickr should probably go on the list, should I add it?
18:45:29 [evanp]
Shane: sure
18:45:33 [cwebber2]
AnnBassetti: hi, back on the twitter api bit that had to do with brand management
18:45:53 [cwebber2]
I didn't quite understand it other than brand management, but tantek, if we set up a twitter account for the w3c advisory board
18:45:58 [sandro]
evanp, is your list of 10-12 APIs written down somewhere?
18:46:04 [cwebber2]
those of us who were on it could post to that
18:46:06 [cwebber2]
is that similar?
18:46:20 [evanp]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Patterns
18:46:25 [cwebber2]
tantek: similar, I just shared the password with all management members
18:46:28 [cwebber2]
that's a low-tech version
18:46:49 [cwebber2]
what twitter's groups/brand feature is doing differently, it enables a brand/group of accounts, say ACME corp
18:46:56 [cwebber2]
to somehow be upgraded to be a group
18:47:08 [cwebber2]
so other people can tweet on behalf of it
18:47:10 [hhalpin]
BTW, who runs the Social Web WG?
18:47:15 [hhalpin]
Maybe we should run it this way :)
18:47:16 [cwebber2]
so what happens in the UI is you'll see a tweet from the brand
18:47:24 [cwebber2]
and it'll say "tweeted by:" @username
18:47:27 [hhalpin]
Right now the owner of the Social Web WG Twitter account is a mystery
18:47:31 [elf-pavlik]
https://twitter.com/SocialWebWG
18:47:33 [cwebber2]
so users can pick from a special menu
18:47:37 [cwebber2]
so they can tweet as a brand
18:47:41 [hhalpin]
Anyone know who that is?
18:47:47 [cwebber2]
no need to log in as a separate user
18:47:49 [cwebber2]
you can switch back
18:48:10 [tantek]
q?
18:48:14 [tantek]
ack sandro
18:48:19 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: btw, I think that's a cool feature, though I wonder how much the API we're designing needs that, seems like an application by application thing
18:48:22 [cwebber2]
other than documenting "sent by"
18:48:27 [elf-pavlik]
evanp++
18:48:28 [Loqi]
evanp has 1 karma
18:48:31 [AnnBassetti]
+1
18:48:33 [cwebber2]
sandro: thanks for organizing this, very helpful
18:48:38 [AdamB]
+1
18:48:55 [evanp]
q+
18:49:03 [cwebber2]
I'm very curious what other peoples' experience replicating CRUD a bunch of times rather than having CRUD on a bunch of different types
18:49:08 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: sandro: I agree
18:49:15 [oshepherd]
cwebber2: With the concept of "Actors" in the AS2 spec, then it would be a pretty trivial thing
18:49:27 [tantek]
q?
18:49:28 [oshepherd]
sandro: Twitter's API wasn't designed, it evolved
18:49:30 [cwebber2]
sandro: seems you should be able to have a few apis and then use that to do different types
18:49:39 [cwebber2]
why is that? is it historical reasons, or do programmers like to do it
18:49:40 [tantek]
ack evanp
18:49:48 [elf-pavlik]
q+ tantek
18:49:51 [elf-pavlik]
q+
18:50:08 [cwebber2]
evanp: tantek may be able to speak better than I can, and if we could get Lane Cook (?) to speak on it but the origin of the API is nearly accidental
18:50:17 [cwebber2]
was originally implemented in Ruby on Rails, and if you don't turn it off
18:50:21 [aaronpk]
s/Lane/Blaine/
18:50:28 [cwebber2]
these representations are available for different APIs by default
18:50:53 [cwebber2]
so the original API was kind of leaked because 3rd party APIs started to discover and use
18:51:10 [cwebber2]
obv that implementation is still in place, twitter api has been through several clean-room rewrites, but that's the origin of that style
18:51:16 [evanp]
cwebber2: Blaine Cook
18:51:17 [cwebber2]
tantek: that's pretty accurate
18:51:29 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: evanp: aaronpk: got it
18:51:41 [cwebber2]
tantek: simplest thing that could work rather than formally design it
18:51:45 [cwebber2]
but it's mostly historical
18:51:48 [cwebber2]
not really designed at all
18:51:56 [cwebber2]
eg, using ruby dates format instead of ISO format
18:52:04 [cwebber2]
I don't recommend copying any aspects of this API per se
18:52:20 [cwebber2]
because I think it's accidental ~architecture (but really architected)
18:52:28 [cwebber2]
but I think the analysis evanp has done is right
18:52:36 [cwebber2]
if we figure out "here's what the API is trying to do"
18:52:58 [cwebber2]
if we can find what took Twitter 101+ endpoints in a few, that would be great
18:53:06 [sandro]
q?
18:53:14 [tantek]
ack tantek
18:53:18 [cwebber2]
twitter got started as a startup, ship early, 3rd party applications big part of that history
18:53:19 [tantek]
ack elf-pavlik
18:53:40 [cwebber2]
elf-pavlik: I just want to emphasize that we see three entities, and like 100 endpoints
18:53:52 [cwebber2]
twitter has many more entities, what do their endpoints look like?
18:54:02 [cwebber2]
consider machine readable APIs, etc
18:54:13 [cwebber2]
tantek: elf-pavlik, could you look at facebook APIs?
18:54:16 [evanp]
elf-pavlik++
18:54:17 [cwebber2]
elf-pavlik: will try
18:54:18 [Loqi]
elf-pavlik has 1 karma
18:54:20 [tantek]
q?
18:54:26 [wilkie]
elf-pavlik++
18:54:29 [Loqi]
elf-pavlik has 2 karma
18:54:31 [cwebber2]
tantek: ok, have 5 minutes left
18:54:39 [cwebber2]
any questions about social API or stuff?
18:54:51 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: last minute questions
18:54:58 [cwebber2]
cwebber2: who is this?
18:55:02 [elf-pavlik]
+1 work out in the open!
18:55:22 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API_patterns
18:55:27 [cwebber2]
hhalpin: I think we should work out in the open
18:55:29 [cwebber2]
tantek: yes, if you start analyzing an api
18:55:33 [cwebber2]
start with social api pages
18:55:36 [cwebber2]
start editing incrementaly
18:55:37 [danbri]
danbri has joined #social
18:55:41 [cwebber2]
that way anyone who looks at it can see
18:55:53 [cwebber2]
you can collaborate rather than work for a week and find out
18:56:00 [cwebber2]
any incremental work is appreciated
18:56:08 [cwebber2]
keep wiki up to date, we can all collaborate together
18:56:11 [cwebber2]
email/irc also helpful
18:56:15 [tantek]
q?
18:56:25 [cwebber2]
any other new business?
18:56:30 [cwebber2]
TOPIC: new business?
18:56:41 [cwebber2]
tantek: hearing no other new business, I'll adjourn it
18:56:45 [cwebber2]
you all get 3 free minutes
18:56:47 [cwebber2]
enjoy them
18:56:48 [evanp]
I will spend my 3 minutes well
18:56:49 [elf-pavlik]
thanks all!
18:56:50 [wilkie]
thanks!
18:56:50 [Zakim]
-Ann
18:56:50 [cwebber2]
see you next week
18:56:51 [evanp]
Thanks tantek
18:56:52 [Zakim]
-AdamB
18:56:54 [Zakim]
-jasnell
18:56:54 [dret]
thanks everybody!
18:56:54 [Zakim]
-Wendy
18:56:56 [Zakim]
-[Mozilla]
18:56:58 [Zakim]
-elf-pavlik
18:56:59 [Zakim]
-aaronpk
18:56:59 [Zakim]
-rhiaro.a
18:57:00 [wilkie]
cwebber2++
18:57:01 [Zakim]
-??P9
18:57:01 [Zakim]
-Sandro
18:57:02 [Loqi]
cwebber2 has 6 karma
18:57:04 [Zakim]
-wilkie
18:57:06 [Zakim]
-dret
18:57:06 [Zakim]
-Jessica_Lily
18:57:09 [tantek]
thank you cwebber2 for scribing!
18:57:09 [Zakim]
-cwebber2
18:57:12 [cwebber2]
np :)
18:57:20 [rhiaro]
Oh I forgot, any word on scheduling the next f2f?
18:57:23 [cwebber2]
now I gotta remember the conversion process. It's in my notes.
18:57:26 [cwebber2]
rhiaro: ah right
18:57:37 [cwebber2]
should we discuss that on the ML?
18:57:43 [rhiaro]
There was a doodle
18:57:48 [tantek]
rhiaro - oops good point. add it to next week's agenda? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-11-25
18:57:48 [rhiaro]
I think most people filled it in
18:57:53 [rhiaro]
Okay tantek
18:57:57 [tantek]
thank you rhiaro
18:58:09 [cwebber2]
rssagent, make minutes
18:58:17 [elf-pavlik]
link to next f2f pool: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Face_to_face_Meetings
18:58:30 [Zakim]
-evanp
18:58:33 [tantek]
reminder: please fill out the doodle to for the next f2f: http://doodle.com/3cfvrfqr6n9cgdzs
18:58:44 [tantek]
trackbot, end meeting
18:58:44 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
18:58:44 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been jasnell, elf-pavlik, +1.314.777.aaaa, AdamB, cwebber2, oshepherd, Ann, [Mozilla], aaronpk, Tantek, wilkie, Wendy, rhiaro, Sandro,
18:58:47 [Zakim]
... +1.514.554.aabb, evanp, hhalpin, dret, Jessica_Lily
18:58:52 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:58:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:58:53 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
18:58:53 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items