See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: fsasaki
yves: timeline for delivery of
its module
... felix noted, we don't have much time to finish things
... we need to finish both spec + implementations by end of
December
... looking at what we need to do that is very hard
... there may be three options
... 1) postpone release
... 2) not put ITS in that release
... 3) have only parts of ITS in that module
david: we should have a concrete
spec by Christmas
... implementations can come later
... during February
... if you start public reviews in January, you have at least
60 days to provide implementations
yves: our schedule is based on a single review?
david: yes
... if we need more than one review it will automatically
postpone anyway
yves: a really hard schedule
david: I will have now more time and transfer categories, lot of this is putting attributes in module
yves: there are data categories that we have not even discussed yet
david: right
... one is the note, but that is done, right?
... it is not on the wiki, but I made a draft based on
1.2
... there might be roadblocks, but I should manage to transfer
stuff by christmas
... postponing module for next release is not really an option,
this is the main feature for xliff 2.1
... can work on this during christmas break
... we can still send spec for review during january
felix: if you need help with any editing please let me know (no need to be an editor)
david: good to know that you are
ready to help, need to see myself if there is stuff to give to
you etc.
... work on docbook template is straightforward
next call 8 december, we need to make progress via mail, then status check on 8 december
<scribe> ACTION: david to make status check on 8 december call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> 'david' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dfilip, dlewis6).
<scribe> ACTION: dfilip to make status check on 8 december call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-55 - Make status check on 8 december call [on David Filip - due 2014-11-17].
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0020.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0013.html
yves: we will use a single
namespace for the module
... the URI is made from the other (xliff) modules
... the question is arising for the detault prefix for that
namespace
... by convention we use the prefix for the same
identifier
... david things we should use ITS, I think we should use
something else because ITS is taken
<dF> urn:oasis:names:tc:xliff:its:2.1
david: good summary
... above is URI that is on the draft
... argument to use something else than ITS is not to confuse
things
... prefix appears on a few places
<dF> its:
david: can also appear in values as an authorative namespace
<dF> its:
<dF> mtc:
david: we can have values from various modules
<dF> msft:
<dF> subState
david: all occurences should use
the same short cut
... question is: is ITS taken because it is used by w3c
rec?
... or is it ok to use it in xliff?
... not sure if it matters - what is the danger?
... your extractor needs to follow the mapping anyway
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0023.html
felix: see above mail for technical reaons where prefix matters
http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/verbatim.xsl
yves: ITS is default prefix for
ITS in general
... we should respect the convention
... there is nothing that prevents us for using a different
namespace
david: xits has a private
connotation
... the other namespaces are not based on a w3c namespace
... itsm is a good idea, it indicates "its module"
felix: how to move forward with discussion?
david: yves copied xliff TC on
discussion, they will decide before next call
... xslt example is probably the most convincing
... as yves said there are many options, main are: the same
"its" or something else, something short like itsm - for some
reasons itsx or xits are not good
... I could live with its + s.t. else
<dF> itsm
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0000.html
<dF> meaning its module
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0016.html
http://okapi.opentag.com/snapshots/okapi-xliffLib_all-platforms_1.1-SNAPSHOT.zip
felix: any open questions related to the output?
yves: need to define the line
break type + encoding
... having the same one would be useful
... need to start producing the output
... what we need to produce to make progress:
... 1) ITS rules for the mapping
... 2) write algorithm that felix, fredrick etc. talked about,
how to convert an original file to work with ITS proceccing,
e.g. deleting markers etc.
... 3) after that it is matter of processing things
<scribe> ACTION: felix to do write up of processing ITS+XLIFF files [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-56 - Do write up of processing its+xliff files [on Felix Sasaki - due 2014-11-17].
david: need to define generic
rules file, and 2) the algorithm
... the generic file that would go for all generic ITS
processors
... makes sense to have rules file associated with an XLIFF
file that does not have the module
yves: annotators reference - we
could have them for all data categories
... in some case they are mandatory
... should we put them if they are existing, in addition to
data category info?
felix: if avail., should put them in the output
yves: should we just put information for that data category
felix: +1
yves: and shows that the tool know inheritance etc.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/0039.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/0045.html
felix: looking in the archive I was not sure if there is a clear outcome of the discussion
yves: latest was: two additional
attributes - that are part of the ITS module
... its:space and its:lang
felix: itsm:space or itsm:lang ?
yves: yes, if we use that prefix
david: pretty much clear and
resolved for space
... the lang topic: I have not done a draft yet for this
one
... there are two options: say it is not possible to express
inline in xliff
... or to introduce itsm: attribute
... if we use itsm: prefix
... the main use case of xliff is bilingual - source and
target
... is this strictly analogical to preserve space or
different?
yves: you could have a sentence
with a citation
... spell checking could help if language information is
inline
david: it would be non
translatable with translation one language > other
... trying to thing about use cases
discussion on citations
yves: you don't make
segementation based on lang info
... but if you have s.t. quoted in a language you don't segment
it
... I am trying to say: language information is independent of
segmentration, translate etc.
... useful e.g. for spell checker - we should try to provide
it
david: technically it can be done
like space
... fine to handle it the same way as space
... enough info for doing the editing in the spec
felix: great
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/0034.html
yves: looking at ITS provenance,
wondering how that relates to change tracking
... some if the info is not the same
... there is an action on dave lewis to look into that
... I tried to look at it - I don't use change tracking
currently
david: owner in xliff tc is
ryan
... dave + ryan would be best team to move this forward
... change tracking addresses only a specific use case
... you can record provenance also on things that have not been
changed
... we should look into mapping between them - there should be
information from change tracking mapped via ITS rules into ITS
provenance
felix: not sure if it is feasible to always do that mapping
david: there will be some 1:1 relationships between attributes
action-9?
<trackbot> action-9 -- David Lewis to Look at the XLIFF 2.0 change tracking module for provenance -- due 2014-05-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/its/ig/track/actions/9
felix: will check with dave
david: we can be at locworld with
feisgillt again, in berlin, will be week of june 1st, feisgillt
then june 2-3
... reserve the dates asap
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/0033.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/att-0033/ITSInXLIFFtests.zip
yves: will update the example
with invalid files as well, so that people can test their
validation
... any additioal examples are welcome
<yves_> bye
next call 8 december, let's progress via mail before
adjourned
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/short/short like itsm/ Succeeded: s/topic: ITS preserve space and language information// Succeeded: s/provide/provide it/ Found Scribe: fsasaki Inferring ScribeNick: fsasaki Present: dF Yves philr felix Ankit Regrets: Christian Jörg Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0020.html Got date from IRC log name: 10 Nov 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-minutes.html People with action items: david dfilip felix[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]