See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 07 October 2014
F2F information for Oct 30-31: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-10-Agenda
<bevans> +q
<scribe> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Oct/0013.html
<scribe> scribenick: paulc
See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Oct/0007.html for Paul's plan to meet Fri AM Oct 31
See also https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-10-Agenda#Day_2
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26776#c8
MediaCapture have the same problem as we do.
Can we get a volunteer to work with them on this topic.
Their proposal is "I suggest we combine forces and ask for a (long or DOMString) secondaryArgument on DOMException at least as a stopgap solution "
Jerry will take on this coordination and will use the IE participants on MediaCapture to make the connection.
Mark: This would work for us but
not sure if the DOM people will like this.
... We need to engage people like Anne to see if there is any
chance this would be acceptable.
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25966#c4
David: I reopened this and it will be fixed after the Respec editing is done.
Mark: There is an IDL facility for this.
David: That is why I re-opened this bug.
<joesteele> +q
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25923
Discussion thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Oct/0002.html (modified proposal)
David; This solves the original Mozilla bug and is okay with other developers.
scribe: same axis as used by Web
MIDI
... also solving other issue on capabilities not supported by a
list of strings
... you provide a list of items supported and you are returned
the first one supported
... still some outstanding questions
... questions will become clearer as spec text is written
David: I am looking for feedback
but the proposal solves not only the original bug but other
problems
... will go in this direction without more feedback
... will be implemented before the F2F but after the Respec
editorial work
Joe: Will there a list of video capabilities?
David: Same as in isTypeSupported.
Joe: Not constrained and that is what I wanted to know.
<joesteele> thanks
Jerry: Why did you split into audio and video systems?
David: Genernally wanted to
permit different protections. Proposal referenced a former
bug.
... May be someone wants greater protection for 24-bit
audio.
... Did this for flexability
<joesteele> examples would be Dolby, DTS -- both are concerned more about audio protection
skipping this item for now
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26372
Discussion thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Sep/0023.htm
David: Trying to figure out how
to report all errors
... eg keys not be usable or not available
<joesteele> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Sep/0023.html
David: how do we want to provide
the status
... how do we do this in ECMAScript
... Current direction seems to be map-like as in new
WebIDL
... or object.observe
... probably go with map-like thing which you can iterate
over
... Not much discussion but the map-like proposal looks
good
<markw> +1 to maplike and event giving the key ids added or changed
Joe: my objection to the map-like direction is how does a developer observe changes to the map
David: There would be a simple event like "keyschange"
Joe: Going down map direction. The event will point us to the map change?
David: Observable would give you a list of changes but you would have to figure out your own state.
David; Option 4 was an alternative - report all the changes ie poor man observable
David: Basic facility would be "something has changed" and the app needs to figure this out
Mark: It would be nice if the keys changed event gave an exact list of changed keys
Joe: I may object to the map
facility since it creates data structure that might not be
useful ie for key transitions
... Not against the map but it may be overhead that we don't
need
David: The IDL has lots of
facilities to use the CDM provided information
... Modelled after ECMAScript maps which developers should be
used to
Joe: Looks like it has all the accessors needed. Not sure how easy it is to construct.
paul: what is timetable for this one.
David: After 26372 and MAYBE before the F2F.
<joesteele> I will defer to the browser implementors on this one -- not something I think would be always used, but if overhead is low I have no problem with it
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26887
paul: Most recent discussion has been in the bug in the last 2 weeks.
Jerry: I asked for this to be on
today's agenda.
... I raised the concern that finding a single solution for
both problems might be hard
... There is sitll disagreemen on whether the proposed model
belongs in EME
... There are lower level problem outstanding that can be fine
tuned BUT
... we need to get agreement on the higher level model
<ddorwin> Nobody has argued that the license can't specify whether the license is stored. The current spec just requires that a "persistent" session be used.
Mark: Not correctto think this as
two competing models
... the spec does not preclude the license containing extra
information
... current status is that the app and license need to specify
if the license can be stored
... other distinct issues are a) can the CDM re-use the stored
information
<ddorwin> +1 to what Mark said
Mark: I don't have a general problem with re-using InitData but there are use cases where the app needs to clearly state how a license should be reused.
Jerry: Maybe an attribute to force a new license to be acquired
Joe: I agree with Mark. I would
need or would like to see a specific flag
... the default case we would use cached licenses so there
needs to be a flag to go around that
... we don't have those options today
... load is part of the that flag but not the whole story
... I will add that into the bug (been busy with other
items)
... For us LoadSession and CreateSession cause us to cache the
InitData
... This bug tries to split those apart.
Jerry: The proposal is to
eliminate LoadSession
... we concentrate on CreateSession and let it re-use an
existing license and skip some steps
<ddorwin> LoadSession is important for multiple use case. It doesn’t have to be removed to solve your scenario.
David: I have already identified issue with there being no sessions
<ddorwin> When thinking about solutions: Could have a SessionId lookup based on initData. Gives the application control with the alternative lookup you want.
paulc: self-scribing like David is doing is a great model for others to use
<ddorwin> Nobody has argued that the license can't specify whether the license is stored. The current spec just requires that a "persistent" session be used.
<markw_> There are cases where there are multiple licenses cached for the same content item. The application needs to be able to specify which one.
<ddorwin> +1 to markw_. A unique ID is the only way to enable this.
Mark: Session id was the way to
specify the license to use
... you could have different kinds of licenses
... we need to be able to handle these use cases
Jerry: What is the use case for different license and how does it matter?
Mark: Maybe there is a preview
license with restrictions and a full license that has
side-effects when used.
... you need to be careful what license to use
Joe: I guess the issue I have
with LoadSession the way it is, is can the Session loaded go
off and get new licenses?
... How do I tell the CDM to NOT use existing licenses?
... Another point is that you need to be able to stop the CDM
using cached licenses.
David: Let's look at the existing rules in the document. If there is no Session then it is not possible to use cached licenses.
Joe: The exact issue is "what is the spirit in the spec?"
<markw_> I don't think there is a disagreement about whether there are such things as cached licenses. But you need to have a session to use them.
Joe: The spec permits the CDM to cache licenses ...
David: I disagree that the spec
permits that.
... if we are missing that normative text then we need to fix
that
Mark: Are you saying that the CreateSession permits you to use a cached license.
Joe: yes
David: We seem to be disagreeing whether you can use a cached license or have to specifically load it.
Jerry: the model Joe is asking is the one that this bug is asking for
<joesteele> my problem is that generateRequest was added as a solution to this without fully answering everyones issues with it
<joesteele> generateRequest was not acceptable as a solution to this issue
Jerry: I got some feedback today
<markw_> generateRequest (aka createSession) presently doesn't allow re-use of cached data because it requires a licenserequest message to be generated
Jerry: MSFT participants will try to modify the proposal and ensure wide discussion
<markw_> for me it could be fine to allow createSession (rename init?) to re-use cached data, but we have to solve the problem of disambiguating multiple stored records keyed of the same initData and the problem of allowing the app to prevent re-use
Bug 26811 is blocking Bob Lund's possible work on Bug 26738
paul: When will 26811 be done?
David: It is still a lower priority that the bugs that could shape the API.
Paul: 26811 will probably not be done before the end of Oct
David: You can probably get some of the content ready
Bob: I would prefer to wait so that I don't do double work.
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