See also: IRC log
<tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2014/09/15-dpub-minutes.html
no comments
minutes approved
brady: use cases have been on list for while, one use case is styling
… useful for content creators
<tzviya> use cases: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Pagination.2FDOM_interaction
… implementers, e.g creating ebook reader, no idea how to enter paginated mode
… turn pages, note visible pages, select text across pages. no apis exist
… often use internal APIs, webkit has some, CSS hacks like using columns or frames/Javascript
… doesn’t work with fancy page styling, semantics that it is a page is lost
… cannot use private port of webkit in ebook readers ?
… need to be able to state it is a book with pages
… listed many use cases
… this is summary of problem, need public API for handling pagination, details not clear yet
… need to understand a design, then API for control
… DOM should be able to handle pages, possible extensions
dauwhe: discussed at CSS F2F a few weeks ago, peter linss co-chair and tag member
… box tree api
… separate from DOM, could navigate, all pagination defined
… deprecate geometry apis in DOM and move to box tree api
… seems good
brady_duga: is this a DOM for boxes?
dauwhe: can move around boxes and deal with
them, especially element fragmentation across boxes
... or pages
<Bill_Kasdorf> The people who are working on overlapping structures may be able to make some useful contributions to this issue
ivan: if this CSS work really happens then
really need to be involved in this
... how does current API work when some tries to re-paginate
<david_stroup> https://www.npmjs.org/package/boxtree
ivan: re annotation, what is the anchor that is used for an annotation for a page?
brady_duga: depends on implementation
brady_duga: depends on the implementation
… find known anchor elements
… some are more fragile than others
… re pagination, depends, webkit just reload document, using printing architecture
… with columns, re-flow
… re-pagination means starting over
… what was behind the question?
ivan: just wnated to clarify
brady_duga: tricks to start re=paginating from current page, but earlier pages might start at strange locations
ivan: webit has API but other tools also have APIs, are these other APIs public or private?
brady_duga: haven’t looked, but there are browser demos
… use different mechanisms, details not clear
… issue of native code
ivan: this group cannot decide what is in the DOM, but could list solutions that are public with pros/cons
… realistic
brady_duga: not clear, have looked at WebKit one
… other approaches are mostly browser hacks or custom ports
<dauwhe> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-overflow-3/#paginated-overflow
fjh: maybe a task force is appropriate for box tree work, to include annotations or dpub, depends on chartering
dauwhe: have posted on how to handle overflow, see link above
tzviya: print and page are different
… could also talk about other non-scrolling views
<Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to "non-scrolling view" instead of "pages"
… next step, think how we might work with CSS group on box tree work
<tzviya> action @brady_duga draft basic needs of pagination API
<trackbot> Error finding '@brady_duga'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
ivan: use dpub pagination repository
<tzviya> action duga draft basic needs of pagination API
<trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Draft basic needs of pagination api [on Brady Duga - due 2014-09-29].
brady: box tree in CSS WG or where?
dauwhe: peter linss is driving this, figuring out context, suggested joint TAG CSS work
brady: we might want to do something at TPAC as a joint session
<azaroth> +1 to joint TPAC session
tzviya: brady, will you be at tpac?
brady: yes
<tzviya> action tzviya plan CSS + pagination API meeting
<trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Plan css + pagination api meeting [on Tzviya Siegman - due 2014-09-29].
<clapierre> I just registered with no problems and paid ;)
tzviya: other comments
none
dauwhe: request new publication location for WD
… some think latinreq since not updated since march, obbiously not familiar with w3c time scales
… added use case where text moves from 1 column into multiple columns
… common design, hard to do in CSS
ivan: no problem, can update WD
… watch out for moratium for TPAC
<liam> [moratorium on publishing - 24 October through 3 November ]
two publishing moratorium later this year:
* 24 October through 3 November during TPAC 2014 [1]
* 19 December through 5 January 2015
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2014AprJun/0134.html
<tzviya> action tmichel publish updated version of latinreq with Dave
<trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Publish updated version of latinreq with dave [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-09-29].
discussion of when to publish
dave: plan to publish next Tue, 30 Sept
... will prepare draft
… have to deal with table cells and some other items, but need to ask what might be missing or where more work is needed, so good to publish
tzviya: stem section needs more work
… want tables that align on a character, such as for accounting books
… align on equals sign (??)
… everyone that speciallizes in areas should take a look and see what they can add or update
… I’ve been working on pagination when customers try to print ebooks
… need some chemistry examples
… physics, math
<Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to vertical alignment on an arbitrary character that needs to be specified--common examples: . ) + = etc.
… even scrreen captures would help, Dave can then respond
call for volunteers met with silence
dave: it would even help more if I can use some of the documents themselves, realize it might be an issue
pkra: MathML specification has some examples
… such features make it hard to implement MathML, solution here might help
tzviya: exactly the sort of thing we are looking for
dave: right
brady: CSS meets Thur, dpub Thur/Fri, why not schedule joint meeting on Thur
tzviya: will be looking at this tomorrow
ivan: scheduling might be a challenge, many joint meetings
dave: TPAC includes time every day for ad hoc meetings, does it not? could this be used?
ivan: schedule depends on WGs, some don’t
observe those slots
... if you have info on when CSS group might have slots that would help