See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014
<clown> agenda: this
argh, forgot. meeting
<scribe> Scribenick: joanie
<clown> action-1504?
<trackbot> action-1504 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Core-AAM mappings of aria-readonly="true" when propagated to gridcell. -- due 2014-09-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1504
JS: We decided this last week. I
did the edits and want to run them by everyone.
... This is about when an author puts aria-readonly="true" on a
treegrid, it is therefore inherited by all the gridcells
RS: What do you put in for AXValue? Is it a string? Something else?
JS: I think it depends on context, but I'm not an Apple developer.
(More discussion with examples about what the AXValue might contain)
<clown> AXRole: TextArea …. AXValue (W) <empty string>
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/
<clown> AXRole: AXTable,
<clown> AXSubrole: <nil>,
<clown> AXDescription: 'table', AND
<clown> AXValue: is not writable.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=181
RS: We should run the tests/check this out for the Mac.
<richardschwerdtfeger> issue: Core Mapping Spec. does not adequately define readonly mapping for axValue on MacOSX
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-675 - Core mapping spec. does not adequately define readonly mapping for axvalue on macosx. Please complete additional details at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/675/edit>.
RS: My concern is that is not programmatically determinable.
JS: I will keep this action open then.
RS: I think this issue is something different. I think you could close the action.
JS: But we don't have Mozilla's approval.
RS: But it describes what it does now?
JS: Probably, but I'm not
sure.
... This new wording probably does require a new test case.
JD: I'll look into the ATK mapping issue (no mapping)
JS: Ok, I'll leave this open for now and come back to it in two weeks?
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690008
JD: The above bug is one of a set of three I think.
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=665598
JS: The definition of read-only
is that the user can read, but not set the value of the
widget.
... A column header has a sort-value. Perhaps if the header is
readonly, you cannot change the sort order.
... Other actions (focus, copying values, etc.) should not be
disabled.
... There are other places where it says AXValue
(Writable).
... This is not limited to gridcell.
... The other places specify the value of AXValue, so they're
ok.
JS: Cynthia is not here.
JS: David is not here. But David contacted me earlier today to say he's working on it.
<clown> action-980?
<trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-08-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
JS: There's a section in the
document about managed ARIA states.
... All I remember about this is that there are a set of states
which are related and should sort of go together in their
mappings.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property
5.5 bullet 1: User agents must compute managed states VISIBLE/INVISIBLE, SHOWING/OFFSCREEN, etc. This typically is done in the same way as for ordinary elements that do not have WAI-ARIA attributes present. The FOCUSABLE/FOCUSED states may be affected by aria-activedescendant. See the rules in Controlling focus with aria-activedescendant.
JS: I find this very difficult to
understand.
... And I think that was the issue: What does this really
mean?
RS: What they are saying is that
the accessible DOM should reflect the changes to the elements
that are rendered.
... So these are for user agents; not the author.
... Authors can override some states, such as posinset and
level.
JS: Ok, I understand it better now. But now, what is action-980 about?
RS: So we have setsize, posinset, level. But we don't have mappings for the visibility, do we?
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_events_visibility
RS: Those are events. Where are
the states?
... For example, when you scroll in Firefox, some things go off
the screen.
... That's the stuff I think you need (as an example).
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#focus_state_event_table
JS: We have a table for focused states and events (above link)
RS: So we probably need showing and/or offscreen.
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/MSAA/States
JS: So Mozilla is already doing this.
RS: (Reads from the document linked above on MSAA States)
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/Gecko/States#STATE_INVISIBLE
JS: I'm going to put a note in the action about this.
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/MSAA/States
https://developer.gnome.org/atk/stable/atk-AtkState.html#AtkStateType
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648260
<clown> http://asurkov.blogspot.ca/2012/02/firefox-12-for-at-developers.html
JS: In the above blogpost, Alex Surkov explains how these states are used in Gecko.
RS: I think you want to have a dedicated section for managed states.
RS: We need to agree on name computation.
JS: I think we need to have a separate document.
RS: I talked to Janina and Michael briefly about this. It would not be outside our charter to do this.
<richardschwerdtfeger> RS: In a later agenda item please add disussion as to when to expose SVG objects in the absence of ARIA attributes
<richardschwerdtfeger> RS: In a later agenda item we need to agree on SVG name computation in whatever document it shows up in. This includes HTML.
JS: Do you want this for next week's meeting?
RS: I'd certainly like the first
one, but on the other we need to discuss things with
James.
... There can be two child tags, one can be title one can be
desc, and this changes the name computation potentially.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: joanie Inferring Scribes: joanie Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger Regrets: David_Bolter Found Date: 02 Sep 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/02-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]