See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 16 July 2014
<janina__> Meeting: PFWG telecon
<janina__> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: Gottfried
RESOLUTION: Minutes are approved for publication as submitted.
Janina: Please register early.
... If possible, stay in the hotel.
... Meeting planned with HTML5 Media Accessibility
action-1481?
<trackbot> action-1481 -- James Nurthen to Review content security policy level 2 http://www.w3.org/tr/2014/wd-csp2-20140703/ -- due 2014-07-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1481
<MichaelC> action-1481 due one week
<trackbot> Set action-1481 Review content security policy level 2 http://www.w3.org/tr/2014/wd-csp2-20140703/ due date to 2014-07-16.
action-1437?
<trackbot> action-1437 -- John Foliot to Discuss with sean hayes and david singer potential a11y issues on ttml-imsc1 http://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1/ -- due 2014-07-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1437
John: Had conversation on the media call. Issue of using images as font replacement. This is an authoring issue.
<MichaelC> close action-1437
<trackbot> Closed action-1437.
<MichaelC> action-1437: being discusssed by Media sub-group
<trackbot> Notes added to action-1437 Discuss with sean hayes and david singer potential a11y issues on ttml-imsc1 http://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1/.
action-1428?
<trackbot> action-1428 -- Janina Sajka to Check if svg integration is ready for pre-lc review http://www.w3.org/tr/svg-integration/ -- due 2014-07-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1428
Janina: I don't recall this.
... Integration into HTML?
... I will need to investigate this. Will do.
Michael: It is still early in the process.
<MichaelC> action-1428 due 2 months
<trackbot> Set action-1428 Check if svg integration is ready for pre-lc review http://www.w3.org/tr/svg-integration/ due date to 2014-09-16.
<MichaelC> DOM4
Rich: Didn't we look at this recently?
... Ability to list the event handlers by name was foreseen in DOM1, but never appeared in the spec. Would this go into the DOM Core or into the events spec?
Shane: This is in the focus of the HTML working group. DOM4 is important for HTML5. It is too late to get this in.
Janina: We have already signed up on this.
Michael: This is a second LC.
Shane: It is going straight to PR.
... skipping CR.
Janina: Last time we had no complaints with it.
Michael: Web apps has DOM level-3 events, but doesn't seem to have an event iterator.
Janina: We build our wish-list for HTML.next right now.
Michael: This has been a long-standing request to many groups.
Janina: If HTML now owns DOM, we need to request this via the task force. We should add this to the Wiki.
Shane: Did we have a real proposal?
<janina__> HTML.Next Wish List Wiki at:
<janina__> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist
Rich: Let me take a look - this is very old.
James N: It is available via Chrome somehow.
Rich: Every browser implements their own JavaScript version of the DOM, extending the core set.
Shane: If we had a real proposal, it would be more credible.
Janina: We could forward it as an extension spec...
... Let's put this into the HTML5.1 wish list.
Rich: Not only for HTML5.1. We also need it for SVG.
... Who owns DOM events?
... Currently the Web apps wg works on DOM events.
<ShaneM> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dom3events/raw-file/tip/html/DOM3-Events.html
Shane: Should be part of the core events.
Janina: If it's not in this doc, we should ask for it.
... Let's make sure we send a request to them.
Rich: We are they doing DOM core and not DOM3 events?
Shane: It's because of normative dependency on HTML5.
Rich: SVG will also have a dependency on DOM4.
s/iteration/enumeration
Rich: This is important for test tools also.
Janina: Michael, can you ask them?
Michael: We had a call with them a couple of years ago.
Janina: They were going to give us a substitute.
Michael: We should pick up that thread.
... My concern was about missing introductions, but didn't get a formal response.
Janina: We have an a11y issue here now.
... Simply ask them to provide an enumeration
Rich: Give them a use case too. Accessibility evaluator tools need to check for event handlers.
Michael: I suggest we write up this use case, and then go to them with our concern.
Janina: Who can write up the use case?
Shane: Can we steal the SVG use case?
Janina: I will look up the thread.
<scribe> ACTION: Janina to pull together conversations with Web apps about DOM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-pf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1483 - Pull together conversations with web apps about dom [on Janina Sajka - due 2014-07-23].
Rich: I am happy to review if you - Janina - write something up.
... Evaluation tool monitor a document for a11y support. It is important to identify event handlers to elements to determine the a11y for an application.
... For example, if you see a mouse handler on an element, and no matching keyboard handler, we have a problem.
<ShaneM> If people need this NOW you might look at https://github.com/ruidfigueiredo/findHandlersJS
James N: For keyboard, authors often attach handlers on the page level rather than on element level.
<MichaelC> ACTION: Janina to restart conversation with WebApps about event monitoring [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-pf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1484 - Restart conversation with webapps about event monitoring [on Janina Sajka - due 2014-07-23].
<MichaelC> close action-1484
<trackbot> Closed action-1484.
<MichaelC> action-1484: dup of action-1483
<trackbot> Notes added to action-1484 Restart conversation with webapps about event monitoring.
<MichaelC> action-1483: use case: AT monitor the object model for at support. Important to determine what event handlers have beena ssigned to elements to determine a11y of app. E.g., see mouse but no keyboard handler, see problem.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-1483 Pull together conversations with web apps about dom.
scribe: Often, there are redundant mouse objects, so there are not always matching keyboard handlers.
Janina: So, it should be a warning rather than an error.
Janina: We resolved a lot of comments. Proposal is to publish a heartbeat.
... Perhaps in the fall we would do an LC.
... This has already been discussed with Shawn Henry. It is expected that EO will look at section 2, looking at various disabilities and strategies of using media.
... We will publish tomorrow if no objections come.
RESOLUTION: This PF telecon approves the request for publishing a heartbeat on "Media Accessibility User Requirements (MAUR)" doc. See request at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jul/0027.html.
Janina: Mark Sadecki was instrumental in pulling this together. He will leave W3C by end of this week.
<ShaneM> https://www.edx.org/
Michael: Open-source platform, some major universities have provided content.
Janina: The work of Mark is going to be split up among multiple staff members. No budget for immediate replacement.
... Mark will very much be missed.
Rich: Going through the issues list.
... Adressing the Bugzilla entries.
Janina: Would be good to use more Bugzilla.
Rich: We should a more formalized bug-tracking against the browsers.
... What's happening with the HTML mapping spec?
Janina: Jason is paying attention. After the next timeshift, we will have Jason again for 6 months.
Rich: Some more generic sections can be referenced from the SVG and HTML5 spec.
... Clean up wording: Some WAI-ARIA events are not real WAI-ARIA events.
... We had an EPUB meeting at the f2f at Mozilla. Subteam on EPUB structural semantics.
Janina: I am supposed to write them back.
Lisa: Update on cognitive. Working on gap analysis - very big. Getting something ready to be published for peer review by PF.
... We want to have the research in it that other people are aware of.
<JF> +1 to Rich's suggestion
Rich: Roadmap for ARIA was published early. We should have something similar for cognitive. How we approach the issue. Live document - will be updated.
Lisa: Okay. We should discuss with Michael.
Janina: Also with Judy.
... It will help to focus, and find appropriate words.
Lisa: I was at ICCHP in Paris last week. Lot of students were looking for research into cognitive. We need to have something that people can look at.
Rich: I could help you write something up.
Michael: The WAI-ARIA roadmap served as a reqs doc - that's different.
Rich: But also it talked about the problems. Problems are common among users, but not the same. Annotating semantics, strategy of moving forward.
Michael: Doesn't sound like an introduction. We can decide what it is when we have the content.
... Having a kind of roadmap would be helpful. Should be public. Expose progress and solicit feedback.
Lisa: I will add this to my to-do list. Vision document and an introduction to the WAI homepage.
JF: I can help as well.
Janina: Calendar widgets are on our wish list.
... Conversation with Charles Neville. The native widgets by the browsers are pretty good. Server receives a string in ISO format.
... It is part of branding that websites include their own date pickers.
... We should push the browsers to make their native widgets available to the user on request.
James N: Some authors may want to restrict the dates, or other constraints.
Janina: Thanks for raising this issue. Needs to be considered.
James N: Validation can pick up this extra stuff.
Lisa: There is another issue with dates and i18n. Order of day and month. There are other calendars than the Gregorian calender.
Janina: Also handle business logics. Users could use the calendar widget that they are most familiar with.
Lisa: The backend might expect the date in a special format.
Shane: In my application the widgets transforms the date string into what the backend expects.
... Browsers need to do localization if they want to be successful.
Janina: We are adjourned.
actions?