IRC log of mobile-a11y on 2014-07-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/11-mobile-a11y-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
13:48:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
13:48:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:48:15 [trackbot]
Date: 11 July 2014
13:48:39 [KimPatch]
chair: Kimberly_Patch
13:50:53 [Kathy]
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13:52:30 [KimPatch]
Agenda+ New Mobile WCAG Techniques & Best Practices survey – continue to review survey – starting with #29
13:52:32 [KimPatch]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/New_WCAG_2.0_Techniques
13:52:33 [KimPatch]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results
13:52:35 [KimPatch]
Agenda+ Next Steps – there will be no meeting on July 18, next meeting will be Friday July 26
13:52:42 [KimPatch]
agenda?
13:55:23 [KimPatch]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Jul/0000.html
13:57:56 [KimPatch]
regrets+ Detlev, Jonathan_Avila
13:58:48 [KimPatch]
regrets+ Kathleen_Anderson
14:00:59 [AlanSmith]
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14:01:54 [Jan]
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14:02:28 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
14:06:24 [KimPatch]
Mike Shebanek introducing himself, senior director for accessibility at Yahoo, managing team that does evaluations for accessibility on web and apps. Spent 19 years at Apple, voiceover, iPad product manager
14:11:57 [Kathy]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
14:13:19 [Kathy]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
14:13:31 [KimPatch]
Kathy: we have been working on identifying what techniques are needed for mobile, both from mobile app and mobile web perspective. We started by going through mobile accessibility guidelines, techniques – marked which ones we felt could be modified, could benefit from a mobile example, or requires some changes. There's also a lot of techniques that are applicable as is, so we marked the...
14:13:33 [KimPatch]
...ones that were applicable as is and the ones that require changes. This is on the wiki.
14:15:04 [KimPatch]
Kathy: then we took a look at the mobile accessibility guidelines – BBC, IBM, Funka Nu, to see things from those that are missing. We also did a brainstorm. The survey we are going through today is all the techniques that we have identified. What we are doing now is seeing which should be a technique, or a best practice, and what it would apply to in WCAG.
14:15:27 [gavinevans]
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14:15:50 [KimPatch]
Kathy: we are nearly done with the survey. From there we will summarize it and put it in a list of things that we need to work on to come up with a good set. As we go through it doesn't mean we can't add new techniques or identify things that are missing – we expect that that will be the case, but this is a good starting place for us to create the techniques that are needed.
14:16:05 [Kathy]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq26
14:18:46 [KimPatch]
Kathy: there's been a lot of talk about how we're going to integrate this – we started discussions on that and very quickly came to the conclusion that we needed to know the scope of what we were looking at first. We wanted to be usable for developers to really get in there and know what's applicable and what's important for mobile so we have to think about how to structure that. We have...
14:18:48 [KimPatch]
...some limitations about what we can do – that's something we're going to have to get approval for from the WCAG and UAAG working groups – they are the sponsoring groups for this task force and we regularly go back to those groups. That's part of the next step to.
14:19:22 [KimPatch]
Mike: trying to understand targets – native apps, webpages, but how about apps that look like native apps but our web delivery – are we comprehending all three of those or just native apps or just web?
14:20:22 [KimPatch]
Kathy: keeping in mind all of them – we may decide to focus on mobile web first and then tackle mobile apps – we have to define that as a group and get feedback from the working groups as well in our next steps. The next biggest chunk is summarize what we've got so far, agree on it within this task force, then go back to the working groups and I'm sure we will have a number of discussions...
14:20:23 [KimPatch]
...around what to do with apps, hybrid apps and web.
14:21:38 [Jan]
Scribe: Jan
14:22:26 [Jan]
Topic: 25. Provide the open/closed state information in the menu icon
14:22:31 [Jan]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq26
14:22:48 [Jan]
Kathy: Referring to "hamburger menu"
14:23:22 [Jan]
Kathy: Tech is simply to add that open vs close info to the icon for this pattern
14:23:48 [Jan]
Kathy: Jonathon says Not clear about this -- if the menu is opened wouldn't that be apparent?
14:24:06 [Jan]
Kathy: Detlev says I think this should be expressed more generically so it applies both to content that is revealed like ccordions and to dropdowen menus (some just an icon, others linking to the main section).
14:25:10 [Jan]
Mike: I think it should be more generic
14:26:43 [Jan]
Alan: Maybe "open/close" state of a toggle
14:26:55 [Jan]
Detlev: Agrees
14:27:42 [Jan]
Mike: I think it of a hide/show
14:28:39 [Jan]
kathy: Maybe give three examples under this...accordian, menu button
14:29:13 [Jan]
s/Detleve/Gavin
14:29:17 [Jan]
s/Detlev/Gavin
14:30:19 [Jan]
Kathy: Anything that has hide/show state, we want the state communicated
14:30:54 [Jan]
Jan: aria-expanded....
14:31:14 [Jan]
Gavin: But no ARIA in native apps
14:31:43 [Jan]
Mike: Right, there are tabs e.g. 1 of 3
14:31:55 [Jan]
Mike: Page indicator in iOS...dots on screen
14:33:27 [Jan]
Jan: Are we writing general here? Or iOS, Android, Web
14:33:34 [Jan]
Gavin: Or Windows 8
14:34:30 [Jan]
Kathy: So under 4.1.2....and 1.3.1
14:34:34 [Jan]
All: OK
14:35:48 [Jan]
Resolution: Provide the Hide/show state. Sufficient under 4.1.2 and 1.3.1.
14:36:20 [Jan]
Topic: 27. Ensure that menu can be zoomed to 200%
14:36:28 [Jan]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq28
14:36:42 [Jan]
Kathy: Came from Funka Nu
14:36:55 [Jan]
Kathy: Not sure if this is still a major issue
14:37:15 [Jan]
Alan: Not sure why this is there
14:37:47 [Jan]
Mike: In OS10, this is a significant issue....
14:37:58 [Jan]
Mike: Work around is to magnify the entire screen
14:38:11 [Jan]
Mike: Not sure how this affects mobile as much
14:38:42 [Jan]
Gavin: I've found problem in overlays etc when try to pinch and zoom due to fixed point size
14:39:29 [Jan]
Gavin: But depends how menu is implemented
14:43:06 [Jan]
Jan: Are we really talking about reflowing at 200%...not just getting there?
14:43:49 [Jan]
Mike: If you have some overlay it should scale at the same rate as other things
14:44:42 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#visual-audio-contrast-scale
14:45:14 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/G142
14:46:38 [Jan]
Jan: Maybe we are talking about text-only 200% zoom
14:47:58 [AlanSmith]
Sorry , need to drop call. Being asked to join another call for work.
14:48:02 [AlanSmith]
thank you.
14:48:49 [Jan]
Mike: Idea is that default text size needs to go to 3x or whatever
14:51:33 [Jan]
Mike: The menu and overlay pinch...
14:51:40 [Jan]
Gavin: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/F69
14:51:54 [Jan]
Gavin: There is already a failure for this
14:52:25 [Jan]
Jan: Maybe we should add to that and talk about overlays
14:54:07 [KimPatch]
Potential solution: sufficient technique under 1.4.4 but specifically adding two F 69, Modify to say resizing in general not just text resize
14:55:53 [Jan]
Gavin: Just wondering if there is anything in the MWBP?
14:56:08 [Jan]
Kathy: Can you look and get back to us at the next call?
14:56:28 [Jan]
Mike: Is 200% sufficient on small mobile device?
14:56:34 [Jan]
Kathy: Good point
14:57:18 [Jan]
Jan: Maybe we can add an advisory tech about going beyond 200%
14:58:14 [Jan]
Kathy: Other point is minimum font size...
14:59:23 [Jan]
Jan: Best measurement unit is pt
15:01:10 [Jan]
Mike: But be careful with small phones vs. tablets
15:02:09 [Jan]
Action: Jan to research a table of pt values vs. viewing distance
15:02:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-17 - Research a table of pt values vs. viewing distance [on Jan Richards - due 2014-07-18].
15:03:34 [Jan]
Action: Gavin to look at MWBP re: text resize
15:03:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-18 - Look at mwbp re: text resize [on Gavin Evans - due 2014-07-18].
15:04:29 [gavinevans]
thanks everyone
15:04:42 [Kathy]
rrsagent, make log world
15:04:51 [Kathy]
meeting: Mobile A11Y TF
15:04:59 [Kathy]
chair: Kathy
15:05:15 [Kathy]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:05:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kathy
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