See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 25 June 2014
<aldafu> Zakim: +49.303.is me
<scribe> scribenick: ddavis
<scribe> scribe: Daniel
Previous minutes: http://www.w3.org/2014/06/11-webtv-minutes.html
<yosuke> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs#Iterations_and_Timeline
yosuke: Here is a timeline of the
use cases and requirements.
... Today, we'll finalise the use cases
... After that, we'll work on the requirements and gap
analysis
... We'll have a one-day face-to-face meeting at TPAC in
October
... Any comments or questions about the schedule?
<yosuke> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/New_Ideas
yosuke: Let's check whether each use case is worth pursuing.
ddavis: Audio fingerprinting is when the app listens to a short clip of audio and compares that to a database of existing media. It can then offer more information to the user or e.g. share it on social networks.
yosuke: I think we can include this use case. We may be able to implement this system using client and server technology but there may be a better way using web APIs.
ddavis: I agree. My instinct is it could be possible already with existing APIs but we should investigate this during the gap analysis phase.
yosuke: OK, so let's include this.
ddavis: Audio watermarking is similar but media is detected by audio tones that are inaudible to humans. These are unique to each media.
yosuke: let's deal with this use case in the IG as well.
ddavis: The next use case has
been removed because it's already part of the HTML spec.
... The two synchronisation use cases have not changed since
the last call.
yosuke: I think these could be included too.
ddavis: I'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks these are too similar to second-screen use cases we did in the previous gap analysis iteration.
Bin_Hu: In the first round,
synchronisation was covered but the scenario was slightly
different.
... In this scenario, the media is played at identical times so
it's different.
... The media stream may not be identical but it's played at
the same time.
... We can investigate to see if there's any overlap.
yosuke: There may be some overlap but it's worth investigating.
gmandyam: We've discussed this in
ATSC. One example is tracks from multiple cameras
... There's scepticism as to how important that use case
is.
... It could be looked into but I won't go into too much
technical detail on this call.
yosuke: I understand your point -
there have been some ideas from the broadcasting industry to
use multiple cameras and synchronise those screens.
... This is supposed to increase engagement.
... That kind of use case has been suggested but not actually
adopted.
... There are movements in web technologies that combine
multiple views into one data source.
... There are JavaScript frameworks that can achieve this - you
can see the same object in different places within the
DOM.
... It's good to look into this use case again.
... Next - interactive overlay.
Bin_Hu: This is from a feature
that's already available on native platforms.
... An event is triggered by in-band or out-band triggering
mechanisms.
... In-band means the events are embedded in the media
stream.
... Such as text or other tracks.
... Out-band is at the platform level.
... Platform triggers are passed to an API - the app can
receive these events.
... The web app can overlay the triggered content on top of the
current media screen.
... The use case is just how the user perceives this type of
event.
... The more important part is that this use case requires a
more generic API to handle in-band and out-band triggers.
yosuke: I think this use case is
also interesting because we don't have a generic API to cover
this.
... External standards organisations are defining their own
APIs for this.
... Currently, web standards are heading towards more
declarative or generic APIs so it's a good time to tackle this
use case.
... Next use case is Clean Audio
ddavis: This was submitted by Janina from the media accessibility sub-group
gmandyam: How is this different to just synchronisation?
yosuke: I'm not sure this use
case is a special case. I added a comment that this use case
conflicts with EME.
... EME doesn't allow users to modify or manage audio
tracks.
... Synchronisation use cases don't include modification.
ddavis: Increasing or decreasing certain frequencies differentiates it from the other use cases IMO.
tune the app to the frequencies that are best for that
particular viewer.
scribe: This is a very important
strategy.
... It could also be possible to use the same app in the
cinema
watching movies."
ddavis: Even if it does affect EME it's still relevant for content that's not protected.
yosuke: If EME allows this or not, then the accessibility task force should talk to the HTML Media Task Force
ddavis: I can suggest that to Mark Sadecki
<scribe> ACTION: ddavis to bring up issue of frequency-changing affecting EME [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-204 - Bring up issue of frequency-changing affecting eme [on Daniel Davis - due 2014-07-02].
yosuke: I think at least we
should keep this use case as a specific example of
synchronisation.
... We can see if it's different depending on feedback from
Mark (accessibility group).
... I put a note about the web and TV accessibility initiative
at the bottom of the page.
... Mark S, Janina and I exchanged some ideas.
<yosuke> http://5stardata.info/
yosuke: One was a concept of
5-star accessibility, similar to the 5-star open data
measurement process.
... This has helped increase awareness of linked open data on
the web and a similar thing could be done for
accessibility.
... There could be a rating system for accessibility to see the
achievement of a site.
gmandyam: Another thing we've
been discussing in ATSC is personalisation information, for
example closed caption preference.
... Extensions to the runtime engine are necessary for this
feature so that apps can get access to use your
preferences.
... There's standardised storage preferences. Is this something
the accessibility efforts have been considering?
... This is a case where the persistent storage mechanism
(appcache, cookies) are not sufficient and cross-domain issues,
but data like this is universally applicable.
yosuke: The team is now creating
media accessibility guidelines.
... I'm not sure it covers this point.
... We're not sure that the guidelines will cover this and
other efforts in other SDOs.
... We can check this and make sure things are inline.
... A further thing we discussed is to make the the
accessibility guidelines relevant for the TV industry.
gmandyam: I don't like other
standards bodies creating new web APIs for their use
cases.
... If the accessibility group can come up with a
recommendation that would be useful.
yosuke: Third idea is a work in
progress which is deciding the use cases and working with the
accessibility sub-group.
... There is also work going on in the TV Control API Community
Group
... This group will define a new API and they'd like to make
sure that it satisfies the accessibility requirements.
Bin_Hu: The TV Control API CG so
far has taken technical requirements - we plan to finish this
input stage by July 6th.
... So far we have input from Mozilla and the BBC regarding
channel scan, etc.
... One use case talks about accessibility-related requirements
but it's very simple.
... So we're still collecting use cases. Next we'll work with
the editors to address the technical requirements.
... One requirement is the ability to show subtitles, the other
is the ability to play supplementary audio tracks
(descriptions).
... We are not quite clear if those use cases would satisfy the
accessibility guidelines.
... Another question is how accessibility APIs could benefit
the whole TV industry, considering this TV Control API is only
a part of hybrid TV.
... It's still a grey area.
yosuke: So we should start with
the big picture and when we dig into the TV Control API, if it
helps accessibility then we address it then.
... Daniel and I will talk about how to proceed with the
accessibility team.
yosuke: The co-chairs are
re-visiting testing efforts.
... The chairs sent a message to other SDOs to ask about their
thoughts about testing.
... The email was sent on June 19th and we're waiting for
replies.
... We'd like to share them when we have some replies.
... I think that's all for now.
yosuke: How about creating a spreadsheet that summarises the use cases?
ddavis: What's the best format for that?
yosuke: The format we used for the first round is good.
ddavis: OK, so we can copy it and change the data.
yosuke: So we will create that
spreadsheet to work collaboratively online.
... Then we can work together on the gap analysis and
requirements.
... Any other business?
<scribe> ACTION: yosuke and ddavis to create online docs for requirements/gap analysis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-205 - And ddavis to create online docs for requirements/gap analysis [on Yosuke Funahashi - due 2014-07-02].
<wuwei> unmute me
wuwei: I'm from the accessibility
team.
... Talking about the use cases, what's the timeline for
discussing the use cases?
<yosuke> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs#Iterations_and_Timeline
yosuke: For this second iteration
of work, today we finalised the list of use cases.
... From today, we'll polish the use cases and extract
requirements, then start a gap analysis.
wuwei: I want to make sure we can
implement the requirements for accessibility in this second
round.
... I'd like to join the discussion about accessibility.
yosuke: Thank you very much. Meeting adjourned.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/synchronisation./synchronisation?/ Found ScribeNick: ddavis Found Scribe: Daniel WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Bin_Hu CyrilRa EricP IPcaller MarkS P14 P2 aaaa aabb aldafu ddavis gmandyam https jcverdie schuki scribenick timeless_ tobie trackbot whyun wuwei yosuke You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 25 Jun 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/06/25-webtv-minutes.html People with action items: ddavis yosuke[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]