IRC log of aapi on 2014-05-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 18:58:23 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aapi
- 18:58:23 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-aapi-irc
- 18:58:25 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs member
- 18:58:25 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #aapi
- 18:58:27 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
- 18:58:27 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
- 18:58:28 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
- 18:58:28 [trackbot]
- Date: 06 May 2014
- 18:58:58 [Zakim]
- WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
- 18:59:05 [Zakim]
- +[GVoice]
- 18:59:18 [clown]
- zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 18:59:18 [Zakim]
- +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
- 18:59:27 [clown]
- zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 18:59:27 [Zakim]
- ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 18:59:36 [clown]
- chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 18:59:59 [Zakim]
- +Bryan_Garaventa
- 19:00:03 [clown]
- agenda: this
- 19:00:10 [clown]
- agenda+ No meeting next week. Think about what edits (issues/actions) are most important for next heart beat draft.
- 19:00:20 [clown]
- agenda+ ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368 (Cynthia): Investigate IE implementation of aria-live region events.
- 19:00:26 [Zakim]
- +Joanie_Diggs
- 19:00:31 [clown]
- agenda+ ACTION-1408 (Joseph): Email Jason Kiss followup re: AAPI that describes API differences.
- 19:00:40 [clown]
- agenda+ ISSUE-594: (David, Joanie): tablist has implicit live region mapping in UIA guide (IA2, ATK).
- 19:00:48 [clown]
- agenda+ ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): Test case for IE selection on a single selection container when item becomes unselected.
- 19:00:49 [bgaraventa1979]
- bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
- 19:00:56 [clown]
- agenda+ 1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All) Start with ACTION-842, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842
- 19:01:03 [clown]
- agenda+ be done.
- 19:01:16 [bgaraventa1979]
- zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
- 19:01:17 [Zakim]
- ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
- 19:02:26 [clown]
- agenda?
- 19:02:54 [joanie]
- Zakim, I am Joanie_Diggs
- 19:02:54 [Zakim]
- ok, joanie, I now associate you with Joanie_Diggs
- 19:03:05 [joanie]
- scribenick: joanie
- 19:06:17 [Zakim]
- +David_Bolter
- 19:06:22 [cyns]
- cyns has joined #aapi
- 19:06:50 [joanie]
- Zakim, take up item 1
- 19:06:50 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "No meeting next week. Think about what edits (issues/actions) are most important for next heart beat draft." taken up [from clown]
- 19:06:56 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 19:07:19 [cyns]
- zakim, microsoft has me
- 19:07:19 [Zakim]
- +cyns; got it
- 19:07:23 [joanie]
- JS: There's no meeting next week because I'm on vacation.
- 19:07:41 [joanie]
- JS: But it has been suggested by the main group that we have a heart beat draft of all the spec stuff
- 19:07:50 [joanie]
- JS: And they want that by the end of the month.
- 19:08:09 [joanie]
- JS: So perhaps while I am away, you all could go through everything and see if there is anything you want done.
- 19:08:34 [joanie]
- DB: (asks about heart beat draft)
- 19:08:55 [joanie]
- JS: Usually we have done a heart beat draft when we have a critical mass of things to publish
- 19:09:06 [joanie]
- JS: The main group seems to be leaning towards every 3 months
- 19:09:19 [joanie]
- JS: This round, already converted to re-spec, moved to github
- 19:09:28 [joanie]
- JS: And James Craig has also done a lot
- 19:09:40 [joanie]
- JS: Let's find things we can agree to quickly and include in this heart beat
- 19:09:50 [joanie]
- DB: Looking over issues and actions is the easiest
- 19:10:02 [joanie]
- JS: Yes
- 19:10:49 [joanie]
- JS: We added back the UIA mappings
- 19:11:10 [joanie]
- JS: We also are adding things Joanie submitted via a comment
- 19:11:14 [joanie]
- JS: Anything else?
- 19:11:17 [joanie]
- DB: When?
- 19:11:26 [joanie]
- JS: They want to publish by the end of the month.
- 19:11:37 [joanie]
- JS: When we meet next we need to decide.
- 19:11:46 [joanie]
- JS: I don't actually publish this; Michael does.
- 19:11:55 [joanie]
- CS: Working Drafts are a work in progress
- 19:12:53 [joanie]
- CS: But we want to be sure they are ready for the wider audience
- 19:13:07 [joanie]
- CS: If we can get a few more issues in there, great; if not, just be sure it is ready to publish
- 19:13:15 [joanie]
- Zakim, take up item 2
- 19:13:15 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "ISSUE-481/ACTION-1368 (Cynthia): Investigate IE implementation of aria-live region events." taken up [from clown]
- 19:13:19 [clown]
- ACTION-1368?
- 19:13:19 [trackbot]
- ACTION-1368 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in ie apropos issue-481. -- due 2014-04-29 -- OPEN
- 19:13:19 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1368
- 19:13:31 [joanie]
- JS: This one was due last week, while I was away.
- 19:13:46 [joanie]
- JS: It's one of these issues about ARIA Live Regions, removal events.
- 19:14:00 [joanie]
- JS: Do you tell the AT ahead of time so that it can report was removed?
- 19:14:10 [joanie]
- JS: Both Cynthia and David had an action item
- 19:14:12 [davidb]
- my action is 1369
- 19:14:27 [joanie]
- CS: I haven't done it yet
- 19:14:32 [clown]
- action-1369?
- 19:14:32 [trackbot]
- action-1369 -- David Bolter to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in FF -- due 2014-05-06 -- OPEN
- 19:14:32 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1369
- 19:14:45 [joanie]
- DB: I think Matt raised it because it is important for some cases.
- 19:15:15 [clown]
- issue-481?
- 19:15:15 [trackbot]
- issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen before object removal -- open
- 19:15:15 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481
- 19:15:15 [joanie]
- DB: I am going to give a long version why we should leave it as SHOULD.
- 19:15:36 [joanie]
- DB: For ATs in process, they have access to what is going to be removed before it is removed from memory
- 19:15:52 [joanie]
- DB: An additional complication is Firefox is moving to multiprocess
- 19:16:03 [joanie]
- DB: AT can only inject into the main process
- 19:16:12 [joanie]
- DB: Which means they won't be in-process with content
- 19:16:22 [joanie]
- DB: Which means this issue is going to become moot.
- 19:16:44 [joanie]
- DB: I cannot speak with certainty until we make this change
- 19:16:56 [joanie]
- DB: But I don't know if making it a MUST is going to be viable.
- 19:17:08 [joanie]
- DB: Alex and I are leaning to keeping it a SHOULD.
- 19:17:37 [joanie]
- JS: My feeling is that we need to engage Matt King.
- 19:17:41 [joanie]
- DB: I can follow up
- 19:17:51 [joanie]
- JS: Yes, send him an email referencing the original issue.
- 19:18:03 [joanie]
- JS: And explaining what Mozilla is doing
- 19:18:18 [joanie]
- DB: I would be curious to know what IE thinks about all this.
- 19:18:45 [joanie]
- action-1368?
- 19:18:45 [trackbot]
- action-1368 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in ie apropos issue-481. -- due 2014-04-29 -- OPEN
- 19:18:45 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1368
- 19:19:10 [joanie]
- CS: That's not showing up in my open actions.... Oh yes it is.
- 19:19:15 [joanie]
- JS: It is issue 481
- 19:20:32 [davidb]
- action: davidb to contact Matt King regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process
- 19:20:32 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1434 - Contact matt king regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process [on David Bolter - due 2014-05-13].
- 19:20:42 [clown]
- action-1434?
- 19:20:42 [trackbot]
- action-1434 -- David Bolter to Contact matt king regarding issue-481, especially regarding multi-process -- due 2014-05-13 -- OPEN
- 19:20:42 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1434
- 19:21:26 [joanie]
- JS: We can close 1361
- 19:21:47 [davidb]
- BTW FTR here is my note in action 1369 "We'd like to leave this a SHOULD for now. Ultimately it would be good to spec this for both in-process and out-of-process AT interaction. Separately, there is an additional complication in implementation for multi-process browsers where AT does not interact directly with the content process."
- 19:21:53 [joanie]
- s/1361/1369/
- 19:22:22 [clown]
- close action-1369
- 19:22:22 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1369.
- 19:22:55 [joanie]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 19:22:55 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "ACTION-1408 (Joseph): Email Jason Kiss followup re: AAPI that describes API differences." taken up [from clown]
- 19:23:05 [joanie]
- JS: I haven't done it yet.
- 19:23:20 [joanie]
- JS: This is the whole business of adding a section to the UAIG
- 19:23:30 [joanie]
- JS: that explains the accessibility APIs
- 19:23:39 [joanie]
- JS: He shared a long email thread
- 19:23:51 [clown]
- action-1408?
- 19:23:52 [trackbot]
- action-1408 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Send email to jason kiss to ask him if he could write an aapi section that describes api differences. -- due 2014-05-06 -- OPEN
- 19:23:52 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1408
- 19:23:56 [joanie]
- JS: I am going to do this at the end of the month.
- 19:24:03 [joanie]
- JS: It is not going to be part of the heart beat.
- 19:24:21 [joanie]
- JS: I want to get a better understanding of what we are talking about so I can ask the appropriate questions.
- 19:24:39 [joanie]
- JS: I may get it done before then (June 10th)
- 19:24:52 [joanie]
- Zakim, take up item 4
- 19:24:52 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "ISSUE-594: (David, Joanie): tablist has implicit live region mapping in UIA guide (IA2, ATK)." taken up [from clown]
- 19:25:02 [clown]
- ISSUE-594?
- 19:25:02 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-594 -- tablist role has implicit live region mapping in UIA guide -- raised
- 19:25:02 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/594
- 19:25:04 [joanie]
- JS: This is one of the ones we can wrap up quickly.
- 19:25:27 [joanie]
- JS: This is strange, in the mapping tables, Tab Lists for IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI, Tab List is marked as a live region.
- 19:25:37 [joanie]
- JS: Steven Faulkner suggested we remove this.
- 19:25:43 [clown]
- https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400
- 19:25:51 [joanie]
- JS: It looks like Firefox has already done the removal.
- 19:26:04 [joanie]
- DB: I think Marco found this behavior annoying
- 19:26:14 [joanie]
- JS: I wanted to check with both of you that this is the right thing to do.
- 19:26:36 [joanie]
- JD: I agree.
- 19:26:46 [joanie]
- DB: It would be interesting to know how it crept in.
- 19:27:14 [joanie]
- BG: I was wondering if Tab Panel has the same thing.
- 19:27:57 [joanie]
- DB: In Firefox, Tab List and their associated content were not represented semantically in the tree.
- 19:28:03 [joanie]
- DB: They were in separate branches.
- 19:28:18 [joanie]
- DB: One suggestion was to use active descendant. Maybe there was a mix-up?
- 19:28:59 [clown]
- action: Joseph to edit the IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI entries for role tablist to remove the live region aspects of the mapping.
- 19:28:59 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1435 - Edit the ia2 and atk/at-spi entries for role tablist to remove the live region aspects of the mapping. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2014-05-13].
- 19:29:07 [clown]
- action-1435?
- 19:29:07 [trackbot]
- action-1435 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the ia2 and atk/at-spi entries for role tablist to remove the live region aspects of the mapping. -- due 2014-05-13 -- OPEN
- 19:29:07 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1435
- 19:30:37 [joanie]
- Zakim, take up item 5
- 19:30:37 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "ACTION-1371/ISSUE-618 (Cynthia): Test case for IE selection on a single selection container when item becomes unselected." taken up [from clown]
- 19:30:50 [clown]
- action-1371?
- 19:30:50 [trackbot]
- action-1371 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate what ie does for single selection container when item becomes unselected, and create a test case (issue-618). -- due 2014-04-08 -- OPEN
- 19:30:50 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1371
- 19:31:26 [joanie]
- CS: Why don't we say end of May?
- 19:31:37 [joanie]
- CS: Let's do the 29th.
- 19:31:46 [joanie]
- Zakim, take up item 6
- 19:31:46 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "1.1 ISSUES and ACTIONS: (All) Start with ACTION-842, https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842" taken up [from clown]
- 19:31:57 [joanie]
- JS: This is triage.
- 19:32:17 [joanie]
- JS: Let's start at the top and go through them.
- 19:32:28 [clown]
- https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400
- 19:32:36 [clown]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
- 19:32:44 [clown]
- action-842?
- 19:32:44 [trackbot]
- action-842 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a diagram to support 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree -- due 2011-06-21 -- OPEN
- 19:32:44 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842
- 19:33:04 [joanie]
- DB: This is not going to be detailed, correct?
- 19:33:11 [joanie]
- CS: My intention was to make it detailed.
- 19:33:26 [joanie]
- DB: Our accessibility trees aren't the same right?
- 19:34:32 [joanie]
- CS: On this action, I think we should make it a 1.1 action.
- 19:35:03 [joanie]
- CS: If we don't make it in time, we should remove it.
- 19:35:11 [joanie]
- JS: We'll make it September 2.
- 19:35:34 [joanie]
- CS: (Clarifies the "1.2" in the action refers to the section)
- 19:36:25 [clown]
- action-980?
- 19:36:25 [trackbot]
- action-980 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define mappings for managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-05-01 -- OPEN
- 19:36:25 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
- 19:38:15 [clown]
- clown has joined #aapi
- 19:38:31 [clown]
- asdfasdf
- 19:38:57 [clown]
- user agents must compute managed states VISIBLE/INVISIBLE, SHOWING/OFFSCREEN, etc. This typically is done in the same way as for ordinary elements that do not have WAI-ARIA attributes present. The FOCUSABLE/FOCUSED states may be affected by aria-activedescendant. See the rules in Controlling focus with aria-activedescendant.
- 19:40:14 [clown]
- http://localhost/~clown/GitHub/aria/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property
- 19:40:29 [joanie]
- CS: Is it adding more detail? Is that what it's asking for?
- 19:40:35 [clown]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_state-property
- 19:40:47 [joanie]
- DB: I guess it's asking us to define how it's done so we come up with the same thing.
- 19:42:06 [joanie]
- DB: We have an HTML version (accessibility guide)....
- 19:42:15 [joanie]
- CS: Why do you think it belongs there and not in ARIA?
- 19:42:23 [joanie]
- DB: The language might be similar.
- 19:42:37 [joanie]
- CS: It makes sense to define it in HTML and reference it in ARIA.
- 19:42:46 [joanie]
- CS: Add that to the issue.
- 19:42:58 [joanie]
- CS: Should I do this or should David?
- 19:43:05 [joanie]
- DB: Who is doing the HTML guide
- 19:43:37 [joanie]
- JS: The editors for that guide are Jason Kiss, Alex Surkov, Steve Faulkner.
- 19:43:41 [clown]
- http://rawgit.com/w3c/html-api-map/master/index.html
- 19:43:53 [davidb]
- I think Alex could help with "This typically is done in the same way as for ordinary elements that do not have WAI-ARIA attributes present." for managed state stuff.
- 19:44:13 [joanie]
- JS: I think (the above URL) is what you're talking about.
- 19:45:00 [joanie]
- CS: What it is about... The first bullet has this text
- 19:45:18 [cyns]
- this is too vague: "This typically is done in the same way as for ordinary elements that do not have ARIA "
- 19:45:21 [davidb]
- (hmmm or maybe Marco)
- 19:45:24 [cyns]
- need to define what is typically done
- 19:45:36 [davidb]
- agreed
- 19:45:49 [joanie]
- JS: So it's not specific to aria-setsize, posinset, level...?
- 19:45:54 [joanie]
- CS: Those are the managed states
- 19:46:00 [joanie]
- CS: The second piece is
- 19:46:12 [cyns]
- 2nd piece is to define what ARIA managed states add/change
- 19:46:52 [joanie]
- DB: This is an action?
- 19:46:57 [joanie]
- JS: 980 is an action.
- 19:47:02 [joanie]
- DB: We assign it maybe?
- 19:47:11 [joanie]
- DB: I should talk to Alex and Marco first.
- 19:48:58 [joanie]
- JS: I will add a note to the issue for David to discuss this with Alex and Marco and report back.
- 19:49:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/05/06-aapi-minutes.html clown
- 19:50:33 [clown]
- action-1102?
- 19:50:33 [trackbot]
- action-1102 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to [ARIA 1.1] Get someone to look at the SHOULD statements in the Role Mapping table. Can these be changed from "SHOULD be exposed" to "expose as" -- due 2014-05-20 -- OPEN
- 19:50:33 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1102
- 19:50:48 [joanie]
- JS: This is an edit I have to do.
- 19:51:22 [joanie]
- JS: There is a list of four things. Exactly what I need to do is written there.
- 19:51:31 [joanie]
- JS: I will try to get this done for the heart beat.
- 19:51:35 [joanie]
- DB: Makes sense.
- 19:52:40 [clown]
- action-1104?
- 19:52:40 [trackbot]
- action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2013-09-17 -- OPEN
- 19:52:41 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
- 19:52:59 [joanie]
- CS: I may be able to have a conversation about what should be here (wrt the above issue)
- 19:53:40 [joanie]
- CS: Let's make it due June 30th.
- 19:54:08 [clown]
- action-1263?
- 19:54:08 [trackbot]
- action-1263 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to AXARIABusy is probably going to change to something less ARIA-specific, like AXBusy or AXElementBusy -- due 2013-12-02 -- OPEN
- 19:54:08 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1263
- 19:54:28 [joanie]
- JS: I think this is something I can do.
- 19:54:47 [joanie]
- JS: It's changing an Apple mapping for aria busy.
- 19:55:00 [joanie]
- JS: The forking is done so I can go ahead and do this.
- 19:55:11 [joanie]
- JS: I will add a note to the issue.
- 19:55:33 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 19:55:42 [joanie]
- JS: And change the due date to two weeks from now.
- 19:57:15 [Zakim]
- -David_Bolter
- 19:57:22 [joanie]
- Zakim, part
- 19:57:22 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Joanie_Diggs, David_Bolter, cyns
- 19:57:22 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aapi
- 19:59:27 [joanie]
- yup
- 19:59:32 [joanie]
- didn't know that
- 19:59:37 [joanie]
- sorry
- 19:59:42 [clown]
- trackbot, stop
- 19:59:42 [trackbot]
- Sorry, clown, I don't understand 'trackbot, stop'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
- 19:59:52 [clown]
- trackbot, pause
- 19:59:52 [trackbot]
- Sorry, clown, I don't understand 'trackbot, pause'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
- 19:59:52 [joanie]
- RRSAgent, stop