IRC log of i18n on 2014-04-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:00:07 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #i18n

14:00:07 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-irc

14:00:14 [aphillip]

trackbot, prepare teleconference

14:00:16 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:00:18 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 4186

14:00:19 [trackbot]

Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

14:00:19 [trackbot]

Date: 24 April 2014

14:00:19 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM scheduled to start now

14:00:27 [aphillip]

Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2014Apr/0011.html

14:00:32 [aphillip]

Regrets: Felix

14:00:55 [aphillip]

agenda+ publish two documents

14:00:56 [David]

David has joined #i18n

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Chair: Addison Phillips

14:01:12 [aphillip]

Scribe: Addison Phillips

14:01:13 [r12a]

zakim, dial richard please

14:01:13 [Zakim]

ok, r12a; the call is being made

14:01:14 [Zakim]

I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has now started

14:01:15 [aphillip]

ScribeNick: aphillip

14:01:15 [Zakim]

+Richard

14:02:10 [Zakim]

+ +44.797.368.aaaa

14:02:18 [Zakim]

+aphillip

14:02:33 [JcK]

JcK has joined #i18n

14:02:36 [aphillip]

zakim, +44 is David

14:02:36 [Zakim]

+David; got it

14:02:47 [aphillip]

agenda+ radar

14:02:50 [koji]

koji has joined #i18n

14:03:02 [aphillip]

agenda+ IRI Status, URLs, and Universal Access

14:03:14 [aphillip]

agenda+ Time Zone IDs and HTML5.x

14:03:24 [aphillip]

agenda+ CSS Text responses

14:03:27 [aphillip]

agenda?

14:03:34 [aphillip]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:03:34 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-minutes.html aphillip

14:03:34 [Zakim]

+koji

14:03:37 [Zakim]

+JcK

14:03:56 [aphillip]

zakim, who is here?

14:03:56 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Richard, David, aphillip, koji, JcK

14:03:58 [Zakim]

On IRC I see koji, JcK, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, aphillip, r12a, trackbot

14:04:26 [aphillip]

Topic: Agenda

14:04:28 [aphillip]

agenda?

14:05:01 [aphillip]

Topic: Action Items

14:05:02 [aphillip]

http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

14:07:29 [aphillip]

close action-300

14:07:29 [trackbot]

Closed action-300.

14:07:38 [aphillip]

action-301

14:07:38 [trackbot]

action-301 -- Addison Phillips to Add action items link to agenda -- due 2014-04-03 -- OPEN

14:07:38 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/301

14:09:32 [aphillip]

close action-301

14:09:32 [trackbot]

Closed action-301.

14:10:02 [aphillip]

Topic: Info Share

14:10:17 [aphillip]

JcK: Precis LC closed yesterday

14:10:18 [r12a]

q+

14:10:25 [aphillip]

... IESG will vote on shortly

14:10:55 [aphillip]

Jck: URNbis WG published draft on removing URN from URI

14:11:06 [aphillip]

... all quiet on URN list

14:11:18 [aphillip]

... but more notice on other lists

14:12:13 [aphillip]

... "usual suspects saying usual things"

14:12:55 [aphillip]

ack, r12a

14:13:00 [aphillip]

ack r12a

14:13:12 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-minutes.html aphillip

14:13:26 [aphillip]

richard: good news on Chinese layout task force

14:13:37 [aphillip]

... finished ruby part and now working on additional chapters

14:13:47 [aphillip]

... asked for english version for review

14:14:05 [aphillip]

... also contacted layout experts on Uighur

14:14:20 [aphillip]

... and Tibetan and Mongolian

14:14:29 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-minutes.html aphillip

14:14:53 [aphillip]

richard: once enough done will have seminar before end of june on layout of major Chinese languages

14:15:30 [aphillip]

richard: mentioned TLD universal acceptance meeting in Oman

14:15:49 [matial]

matial has joined #i18n

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... they volunteered to help with travel

14:16:57 [aphillip]

agenda?

14:17:10 [Zakim]

+??P32

14:17:25 [matial]

zakim, ??p32 is me

14:17:25 [Zakim]

+matial; got it

14:19:00 [aphillip]

zakim, take up agendum 5

14:19:00 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "CSS Text responses" taken up [from aphillip]

14:19:09 [aphillip]

zakim, take up agendum 2

14:19:09 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "radar" taken up [from aphillip]

14:19:12 [aphillip]

https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar

14:20:20 [aphillip]

agenda?

14:20:29 [aphillip]

zakim, take up agendum 1

14:20:29 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "publish two documents" taken up [from aphillip]

14:20:40 [r12a]

Authoring HTML: Handling Right-to-left Scripts

14:20:40 [r12a]

http://www.w3.org/International/docs/bp-html-bidi/

14:20:40 [r12a]

Authoring HTML: Language declarations

14:20:42 [r12a]

http://www.w3.org/International/docs/bp-html-lang/

14:20:42 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-minutes.html aphillip

14:21:03 [aphillip]

richard: would like to publish as updates to the existing WG Notes

14:21:25 [aphillip]

chair: all in favor of publishing both documents?

14:21:33 [r12a]

+1

14:21:36 [aphillip]

addison: +1

14:21:38 [David]

+1

14:21:50 [JcK]

+1

14:21:57 [matial]

+1

14:22:26 [aphillip]

chair: resolved to publish

14:22:44 [aphillip]

action: richard: publish two updated "Authoring HTML" WG Notes

14:22:44 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-302 - Publish two updated "authoring html" wg notes [on Richard Ishida - due 2014-05-01].

14:22:49 [aphillip]

agenda?

14:23:22 [aphillip]

zakim, take up agendum 3

14:23:22 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "IRI Status, URLs, and Universal Access" taken up [from aphillip]

14:23:37 [aphillip]

https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/IRIStatus

14:26:47 [aphillip]

(addison gives a summary)

14:27:49 [aphillip]

addison: turn this into what? blog post originally, but maybe "requirements for IRI"?

14:27:59 [aphillip]

JcK: stepping into large mess

14:29:39 [aphillip]

richard: might be too formal as a note

14:31:48 [Zakim]

-koji

14:32:31 [Zakim]

+koji

14:32:48 [Zakim]

-David

14:33:22 [Zakim]

+David

14:36:28 [aphillip]

agenda?

14:37:05 [aphillip]

richard: one suggestion

14:37:12 [aphillip]

... title should change

14:37:29 [aphillip]

... should say "URLs"?

14:38:03 [aphillip]

"Requirements for internationalized URLs"

14:38:26 [aphillip]

JcK: "what's happening with I18N in URLs"?

14:38:45 [aphillip]

addison: okay, can go with that

14:38:48 [David]

How about "Internationalisation, IRIs, URIs and URLs"

14:38:48 [aphillip]

agenda?

14:39:30 [aphillip]

zakim, take up agendum 4

14:39:30 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Time Zone IDs and HTML5.x" taken up [from aphillip]

14:39:49 [aphillip]

https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/HTML5TimeZone

14:41:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-minutes.html aphillip

14:42:26 [aphillip]

agenda?

14:44:18 [aphillip]

1979-10-14T12:00:00.001@America/New_York

14:44:25 [aphillip]

1979-10-14T12:00:00.001-04:00

14:45:02 [aphillip]

zakim, take up agendum 5

14:45:02 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "CSS Text responses" taken up [from aphillip]

14:45:47 [aphillip]

koji: responded to the easy feedback :-)

14:45:59 [aphillip]

... either fixed or not fixed items

14:46:17 [aphillip]

... plan is that I will make another pass

14:46:29 [aphillip]

... then in week of 6 May

14:46:37 [aphillip]

... will be in SF to work with fantasai

14:46:40 [aphillip]

... to work on the hard ones

14:46:52 [aphillip]

... so reply to issues in my response

14:48:11 [aphillip]

addison: problem with kashida: mentioned but then ignores

14:49:23 [aphillip]

issue-335

14:49:23 [trackbot]

issue-335 -- health warnings for when language not known -- open

14:49:23 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/335

14:49:48 [r12a]

q+

14:50:08 [aphillip]

addison: how can this be tested if non-specific

14:50:23 [aphillip]

... very flexible

14:50:31 [aphillip]

koji: text not necessarily interoperable

14:50:45 [aphillip]

... like one UA does kashida but not antoher

14:51:04 [aphillip]

... if we know requirements very well

14:51:27 [aphillip]

ack r12a

14:51:39 [aphillip]

richard: there are different styles of arabic

14:51:48 [aphillip]

... naskh, nastaliq, ruqk

14:52:01 [aphillip]

... some you do not do kashida

14:52:19 [aphillip]

... if true, need a switch for kashida

14:52:32 [aphillip]

r12a: kashida a lot lot lot more complicated than that

14:52:54 [aphillip]

koji: depends on fonts?

14:53:00 [aphillip]

richard: on the style of the font

14:54:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-minutes.html aphillip

14:54:32 [aphillip]

koji: if a value, need to describe how to implement

14:55:15 [aphillip]

addison: can implement "off" quite easily :-)

15:01:55 [aphillip]

koji: spec mentions text elongation for arabic--that's "kashida" right?

15:02:04 [Zakim]

-matial

15:02:08 [aphillip]

richard: there is a Unicode character called kashida or tatweel

15:02:22 [aphillip]

... the real meaning is "elongation"

15:02:31 [aphillip]

... two different ways to using the word

15:02:38 [aphillip]

... but not addition of baseline characters

15:02:45 [Zakim]

+??P35

15:02:55 [matial]

??P35 is me

15:03:04 [aphillip]

koji: kashida only between letters

15:03:05 [matial]

zkim, ??P35 is me

15:03:06 [aphillip]

... not to spaces

15:03:12 [matial]

zakim, ??P35 is me

15:03:12 [Zakim]

+matial; got it

15:03:46 [r12a]

zakim, who's noisy?

15:03:57 [Zakim]

r12a, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aphillip (58%), David (10%), matial (25%)

15:04:03 [r12a]

zakim, mute matial

15:04:04 [Zakim]

matial should now be muted

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aphillips has joined #i18n

15:05:22 [aphillips]

richard: ruqha vs. naskh

15:05:32 [aphillips]

... one has space effects and the other prefers inside words

15:08:42 [koji]

Justification adjusts spacing at word separators only (effectively varying the used ‘word-spacing’ on the line).

15:09:40 [koji]

http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-text/#text-justify

15:10:49 [koji]

Word-separator characters are characters whose purpose and general usage is to separate words. In [UNICODE] this includes the space (U+0020), the no-break space (U+00A0), the Ethiopic word space (U+1361), the Aegean word separators (U+10100,U+10101), the Ugaritic word divider (U+1039F), and the Phoenician Word Separator (U+1091F). If there are no word-separator characters, or if a word-separating character has a zero advance width (such as the zero width space U+20

15:10:49 [koji]

0B) then the user agent must not create an additional spacing between words. General punctuation and fixed-width spaces (such as U+3000 and U+2000 through U+200A) are not considered word-separator characters.

15:11:06 [koji]

http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-text/#word-separator

15:12:24 [aphillips]

koji: would be great feedback if you could make it

15:12:30 [aphillips]

richard: phrase separators

15:12:47 [aphillips]

issue-313

15:12:47 [trackbot]

issue-313 -- Definition of grapheme clusters -- open

15:12:47 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/313

15:13:12 [aphillips]

richard: helpful to do both at same time

15:13:21 [aphillips]

issue-308

15:13:21 [trackbot]

issue-308 -- Definition of 'grapheme cluster' -- open

15:13:21 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/308

15:13:55 [aphillips]

koji: current working is intentional

15:14:00 [aphillips]

s/working/wording/

15:22:18 [koji]

A grapheme cluster is what a language user considers to be a character or a basic unit of the script. The term is described in detail in the Unicode Technical Report: Text Boundaries [UAX29]. This specification uses the extended grapheme cluster definition in [UAX29] (not the legacy grapheme cluster definition). The UA may further tailor the definition as required by typographical tradition.

15:22:25 [koji]

Within this specification, the ambiguous term character is used as a friendlier synonym for grapheme cluster. See Characters and Properties for how to determine the Unicode properties of a character.

15:27:00 [Zakim]

-David

15:35:06 [aphillips]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:35:06 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-minutes.html aphillips

15:50:49 [Zakim]

-JcK

15:50:49 [matial]

bye

15:50:52 [Zakim]

-koji

15:50:53 [Zakim]

-aphillip

15:50:57 [Zakim]

-matial

15:51:00 [JcK]

JcK has left #i18n

15:51:03 [r12a]

zakim, drop richard

15:51:03 [Zakim]

Richard is being disconnected

15:51:04 [Zakim]

I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has ended

15:51:04 [Zakim]

Attendees were Richard, +44.797.368.aaaa, aphillip, David, koji, JcK, matial

15:56:01 [aphillips]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:56:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-minutes.html aphillips

15:56:09 [aphillips]

rrsagent, bye

15:56:09 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-actions.rdf :

15:56:09 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: richard: publish two updated "Authoring HTML" WG Notes [1]

15:56:09 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-i18n-irc#T14-22-44

15:56:11 [aphillips]

zakim, bye

15:56:11 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #i18n