<trackbot> Date: 11 March 2014

<clown> agenda: this

<cyns> scribe: cyns

<clown> take up item 1

JS: I have created a version 1.1 UAIG that's a full copy of 1.0 and incorporated jason kiss's javascript for table display
... still working on build issues. I will publish when I've figured that out

<clown> take up item 2

<clown> issue-481?

<trackbot> issue-481 -- aria-live removal events should or must happen before object removal -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/481

<cyns_> scribe: cyns_

<clown> action-1368?

<trackbot> action-1368 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate implementation of aria-live region events in ie apropos issue-481. -- due 2014-02-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1368

<clown> take up next item

<clown> take up next item

<clown> take up item 3

<clown> issue-441?

<trackbot> issue-441 -- Normative UAIG requirements for what UAs do when aria-posinset or aria-setsize is provided explicitly on some, but not all, elements within a set. -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/441

<clown> take up item 4

<clown> issueu-618?

<clown> issue-618?

<trackbot> issue-618 -- MSAA selection event mapping for single selection case when item becomes unselected -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/618

<clown> take up item 5

<clown> issue-635?

<trackbot> issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup are correct -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635

<clown> take up item 6

<clown> issue-644?

<trackbot> issue-644 -- Update ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-hidden="true" to reflect elements should not be exposed/mapped -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/644

changed due dates for cynthia's actions to 4/8

<clown> "Element SHOULD NOT be exposed, unless it is focused or fires an accessibility event. If the object is exposed in the accessibility tree, map all attributes are normal. In addition expose object attribute hidden:true."

JS: david said mozilla ok with this wording.

JD: it's better than current language, but not as strong as she'd like

JS: David said he'd like to do this, but doens't think he can get developers to do it.
... can't have a MUST because of the 'unless' clause according to RFC

JD: this seems like an author error to me

JS: if you use display:none with labeledby doesn't get calculated
... it does get put in the label text, but no pointer to hidden accessible.
... I think the same thing probably happens with aria-hidden

JD: I'm ok with that. But it is a lot of work for Orca to pull this info out of elements.

JS: possible use case: tooltip. You might use aria-describedby to point to tooltip, but the tooltip isn't in the tree until you mouse over it. once you mouse over it, the tooltip is displayed, the accessible appears in the tree, and the relationship exists. when the tooltip goes away so does the accessible

<bgaraventa1979> a quick question, any ideas how this would work in touch screen devices?

JD: Orca doesn't want to care if this is aria or some other way to get accessibiltiy info.

CS: AT shouldn't have to care if accessibiltiy tree info comes from aria or some other technology. Narrator, for example, does not know where the aapi values came from

JD: could do a children changed at instead? Should this thing that doesn't exist be in the tree?

JS: it should not be n the tree unless it's visible.
... tooltip starts out aria-hidden, author should chagne that when it's shown
... joanie wants it to say 'if aria-hidden=true' it shouldn't be in the tree

JD: correct

<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#mapping_state-property_table

<clown> "Not exposed in AX API unless focused. If focused, expose as normal."

JS: trying to get language for ATK that's closer to Apple's language

JD: exactly

JS: would like this new language across all columns. cynthia, are you ok with this for UIA and UIAExpress?

<clown> "Element SHOULD NOT be exposed, unless it is focused or fires an accessibility event. If the object is exposed in the accessibility tree, map all attributes are normal. In addition expose aria-hidden is true in AriaProperties."

<clown> *map all attributes AS normal.

CS: looks good to me.

<clown> ACTION: Joseph to add the above language to the UAIG for aria-hidden for UIA Express, UIA, IA2, and ATK/AT-SPI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1399 - Add the above language to the uaig for aria-hidden for uia express, uia, ia2, and atk/at-spi [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2014-03-18].

<clown> action-1399?

<trackbot> action-1399 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add the above language to the uaig for aria-hidden for uia express, uia, ia2, and atk/at-spi -- due 2014-03-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1399

JD: aria-hidden is content that shouldn't be visible to AT
... non-current slide in carosel

CS: modal dialog with greyed out background is another example.

BG: voiceover doesn't make this distinction currently.

CS: this area is buggy in all the browsers.

JS: UAIG says in essence "if it's focused, it's in the accessibility tree"

<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#include_elements

JS: I don't like this wording

CS: focusable rather than focused? That breaks the modal dialog use case, which is, afaik, the most common use case for aria-hidden

JD: need to add some guidance about aria-hidden=false

BG: div with display:none and aria-hidden=false, what happens?

JS: @hidden + aria-hidden=false should be not visible but in tree.

<joanie> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945194

CS: having something that is not visible but in accessibility tree is an anti-pattern, not a feature

<joanie> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945194#c60

BG: there are cases where offscreen is a useful technique.

JD: this should be 2.0, because it's a complicated issue

JS: what if html5.1 gets it in?

CS: we should synch with html a11y tf on this
... +1 to Joanie

issue: should aria-hidden=false put things in teh tree, or stay a no-op as it is now?

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-647 - Should aria-hidden=false put things in teh tree, or stay a no-op as it is now?. Please complete additional details at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/647/edit>.

<clown> issue-647?

<trackbot> issue-647 -- Should aria-hidden=false put things in teh tree, or stay a no-op as it is now? -- raised

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/647

<joanie> or in between "false" and "put"

<clown> :-)

<joanie> they appeared in the past right?

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: cyns
Inferring ScribeNick: cyns
Found Scribe: cyns_
Inferring ScribeNick: cyns_
Scribes: cyns, cyns_
ScribeNicks: cyns, cyns_

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Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, +1.415.624.aaaa, Joanie_Diggs, [Microsoft], Bryan_Garaventa
Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer +1.415.624.aaaa Joanie_Diggs [Microsoft] Bryan_Garaventa
Regrets: David_Bolter
Found Date: 11 Mar 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/11-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: joseph

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WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
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<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report