See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 03 February 2014
<karen> Last note was sent to list on 15 December not November
<karen> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces
<karen> Ivan: task forces identified
<scribe> scribe: tzviya
liza: apprive minutes from last week
karen: unsure if minutes corrected, missed a few points
<dauwhe> http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-27
<ivan> http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-27.html
markus: have not sent corrections to thierry yet
<tmichel> send me the corrections that are needed ...
karen: my rec is to update the minutes and approve next week
<tmichel> And yes we will approuved the minutes next week
Liza: focus on metadata task force
Liza: Bill and madi will walk through objectives
<ivan> TF wiki page
<Bill_Kasdorf> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata
<madi> Did she just say...exciting?
Liza: and scope
BillK:
Bill_Kasdorf: created framework
for discussion on wiki https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata
... idea is to group discussion by topic
... focus on getting thoughts onto wiki (as opposed to list,
but encourage) discussion
...Scope: 2 tasks: identify problems of publishers and
metadata
... and collect use cases
... Ivan asked if this is the correct group within W3C to work
on this
... our group is appropriate to raise issues, not necessarily
solve them
... Markus suggested raising what the issues are, get the
conversation going
... How broad do we want to make this?
... publishers tend to focus on supply chain metadata because
it gets publications out into the world
... there is a whole world of library metadata that is very
active
... Do we want to include library (cataloging) metadata? Do we
want to think about interoperability?
... will this lead to a metadata IG in W3C?
Ivan: if we identify a hole in
HTML, we know where to go to work on that
... this is different, because there is not a group for that in
w3c, so this could lead to an IG
... it would need to be well-documented and explained to W3C
management
Rob: distinguishing between
cataloging and supply chain metadata will be difficult
... for example, which is title?
Luc: supply chain metadata is
important, yes. We would like to figure out how to enrich the
product internally
... there is global metadata (author, title, etc) and there is
metadata inside the product
... We see that HTML is not a semantic language - this is
content metadata
Bill_Kasdorf: I see this in my work through use of generic tagging, such as <div.metadata>
<gcapiel> What about Schema.org?
Bill_Kasdorf: publishers are doing this in non-standard or non-normative ways
<azaroth> Isn't interoperability "how" not "what"?
Liza: listing publishers' problems today: publishers get around this, but there are not common solutions
<Luc> ยง1
<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask isn't interop "how" not "what"?
<Luc> +1
Tzviya: Sub-package level
metadata is something that publishers love about XML (and
prevents them from moving to HTML)
... more granular metadata will be a game changer in shifting
from XML to HTML
Rob: Interop seems to be
something that we can approach later
... more of a how to we approach this, then a "what" is
this?
Bill_Kasdorf: that is true, but it also addresses the need from common practices
<azaroth> +1 to separation of syntax and semantics .... where possible
Ivan: Let's separate 3 problem
areas: mechanism for expresssion (syntax), vocabularies (and
relationship of vocab), id mechanisms for targets
... of these 3 the syntax is the simplest issue
... there are well-defined existing syntaxes
Liza: Who is audience?
Bill_kasdorf: Should we include library/cataloging metadata in scope?
rob: We should focus on the people who are here, the publishers
<madi> I can't seem to un-mute myself, but I agree with Rob. Let's keep with the publishers.
Bill_Kasdorf: there are huge undertakings in library world and little agreement
Madi: I agree, particularly with
Liza and Rob
... We should stick with publisher (supply chain) metadata.
Publishers are behind the times
... we have an opportunity to bring publishing up to speed
ivan: Who is the target of the
metadata that publishers produce?
... someone put schema.org into the notes. If we want to work
with schema.org, then we need to know what partners schema.org
recognizes
Bill_Kasdorf: Magazine world created verbose vocabulary for recipes. Within a specific group, there is a need for more expressive vocabulary than more widely recognized
Luc: publishers want consumers to discover books and to be able to improve accessibility
<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to say schema not liked in libraries, and retain some focus on non packaged content (eg web not epub)
Rob: only a small portion of
library world likes schema.org
... we need to keep an eye on non-packaged content. Content
lives outside the web - let's see what goes on outside EPUB
+1
Bill_Kasdorf
Bill_Kasdorf: extensive vocabulary for magazine recipes was for content management, not delivery
<lizadaly> +1 for emphasizing outcomes and benefits
Karen: we need to be compelling about the business benefits, beginning to hear about the benefits
<lizadaly> Maybe as a flip side to focusing on 'problems'?
Karen: are there other business benefits that we'd find compelling?
tzviya: we need to make a distinction between content management "metadata" and supply chain metadata - we have too many subject areas to manage
<mgylling> +1
'Bill_Kasdorf: we may be able to recommend a method for HOW to manage different vocabularies not what they are
Ivan: the line between adaptive
UI and metadata is fuzzy - we may have to draw a clear
line
... it may be useful to do a cataloging of existing
vocabularies
<Suzanne> +1
<ivan> http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/
Ivan: without mapping, just a
list with information about what they are and how they
relate
... similar to linked data vocab set (link above)
data/s/open
Bill_Kadrof: these are all RDF vocabularies
<azaroth> Ivan: Yep :S
Bill_Kasdorf: Please go to wiki and comments
<lizadaly> Yes please!
liza: we have consensus that will focus on supply chain (publisher) metadata (not library)
<lizadaly> RECESS
Bill_Kasdorf: is thus group likely to go to the step of W3C document as deliverable? What are the deliverables for this group?
<azaroth> Notes: We're primarily doing the Note because of the transition to a Working Group from Community Group
Markus: first thing should be the low hanging fruit: issues that pubs deal with
<ivan> +1 to Markus
Markus: things that are too costly, too hard, not possible
<azaroth> Rather than something formal for the IG
Markus: see brain dump from Luc and others like him about things that cannot be done
<azaroth> +1 to Markus
Markus: this will bring us the data points toward next steps
<karen> +1
<Luc> +1
<astearns> complaints *are* use cases. "I would like to..."
Markus: these complaints are use cases
Luc: I will add use cases to wiki
I will add STM use cases
Bill_Kasdorf: send note to list when add info to wiki
Liza: Topic: next week's meeting
<lizadaly> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html
Liza: DOM pagination
Markus: Looking for a task force lead and participants
<ivan> +q
Markus: programmatic access to pagination
<ivan> q later
<lizadaly> (Not me, we've given up on pagination)
<azaroth> (+1 to liza)
Markus: publishers are doing this
is in different ways
... this is about attaching events and using the DOM
<lizadaly> -1000 page transition animations
Dave: the CSS WG is aware of this and beginning to discuss transitions associated with page
Ivan: do we know who will be at EDUPUB in Salt Lake City?
<Luc> +1000 to Liza comment on no page transition animations
jean, tzviya, billK, markus, Julie, Ivan, gerardo will attend
Ivan: Should I create repo for annotations?
Rob: yes
<scribe> ACTION: ivan create annotations repo [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Create annotations repo [on Ivan Herman - due 2014-02-10].
Ivan: officially recognize Julie Morris
<TomDN> bye
<dauwhe> Start of thread on page transitions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0093.html
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/point/points/ Found Scribe: tzviya Inferring ScribeNick: tzviya WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: AWK Bert BillK Bill_Kadrof Bill_kasdorf Dave IPcaller Ivan JeanK JeanKaplansky Julie_Morris__BISG Karen_Myers Luc Madi Notes P0 P28 P31 P42 Philm Rob Suzanne Suzanne_Taylor TomDN Ugent Vlad aaaa aabb aacc aadd astearns azaroth dauwhe dpub dshkolnik fjh gcapiel gcapiel1 https joined karen liza lizadaly markus mgylling philm_ tmichel trackbot tzviya You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 03 Feb 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-minutes.html People with action items: ivan[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]