15:14:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:14:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-irc
15:14:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:14:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
15:14:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:14:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes
15:14:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:14:21 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2014
15:19:52 <karen> Last note was sent to list on 15 December not November
15:22:08 <karen> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces
15:32:28 <karen> Ivan: task forces identified
15:37:30 <Philm> Philm has joined #dpub
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15:55:22 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
15:56:33 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
15:56:40 <Zakim> +dauwhe
15:56:52 <Julie_Morris__BISG> Julie_Morris__BISG has joined #dpub
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15:58:45 <Zakim> +Vlad
15:58:49 <Zakim> + +1.212.364.aaaa
15:58:51 <fjh> fjh has joined #dpub
15:58:52 <Zakim> +azaroth
15:59:06 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:59:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:59:09 <Zakim> +Ivan.a
15:59:16 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
15:59:20 <Zakim> +AWK
15:59:27 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:59:27 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:59:28 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:59:29 <Zakim> +Tzviya
15:59:36 <lizadaly> lizadaly has joined #dpub
15:59:45 <dshkolnik> Zakim, AWK is dshkolnik
15:59:45 <Zakim> +dshkolnik; got it
16:00:05 <dauwhe> zakim, unmute me
16:00:05 <Zakim> dauwhe should no longer be muted
16:00:12 <Zakim> -Ivan.a
16:00:19 <Zakim> +??P28
16:00:26 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
16:00:26 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
16:00:39 <tzviya> zakim, unmute me
16:00:39 <Zakim> Tzviya should no longer be muted
16:00:40 <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aabb
16:00:41 <ivan> zakim, unmute everybody
16:00:41 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to everybody
16:00:42 <azaroth> zakim, unmute me
16:00:42 <Zakim> azaroth should no longer be muted
16:00:45 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P28 is me
16:00:45 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
16:00:54 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
16:01:06 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is Philm
16:01:06 <Zakim> +Philm; got it
16:01:17 <Zakim> +lizadaly
16:01:18 <Zakim> + +1.347.633.aacc
16:01:24 <Zakim> +??P31
16:01:29 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #dpub
16:01:30 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:01:37 <astearns> zakim, aabb is me
16:01:37 <Zakim> +astearns; got it
16:01:41 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
16:01:43 <mgylling> zakim, ??P31 is me
16:01:43 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
16:01:46 <Zakim> +[Ugent]
16:01:54 <TomDN> Zakim, Ugent is me
16:01:54 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
16:01:54 <lizadaly> zakim, unmute me
16:01:55 <Zakim> lizadaly should no longer be muted
16:02:02 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
16:02:02 <Zakim> TomDN was already muted, TomDN
16:02:08 <ivan> zakim, aacc is Julie_Morris__BISG
16:02:08 <Zakim> +Julie_Morris__BISG; got it
16:02:08 <astearns> zakim, unmute me
16:02:10 <Zakim> astearns should no longer be muted
16:02:22 <Zakim> +madi
16:02:26 <tzviya> scribe: tzviya
16:02:43 <Zakim> +JeanKaplansky
16:02:51 <madi> madi has joined #dpub
16:02:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:59 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is me
16:02:59 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
16:03:05 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #dpub
16:03:56 <dshkolnik> Zakim, mute me
16:03:56 <Zakim> dshkolnik was already muted, dshkolnik
16:04:21 <karen> q+
16:04:30 <tzviya> liza: apprive minutes from last week
16:04:31 <ivan> ack karen
16:04:33 <Zakim> +??P42
16:04:43 <tmichel> Zakim, ??P42 is me
16:04:43 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
16:04:45 <JeanK> JeanK has joined #dpub
16:04:51 <tzviya> karen: unsure if minutes corrected, missed a few point
16:05:07 <tzviya> s/point/points
16:05:08 <dauwhe> http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-27
16:05:10 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-27.html
16:05:15 <mgylling> zakim, unmute me
16:05:15 <Zakim> mgylling should no longer be muted
16:05:42 <tzviya> markus: have not sent corrections to thierry yet
16:05:55 <tmichel> send me the corrections that are needed ...
16:06:05 <tzviya> karen: my rec is to update the minutes and approve next week
16:06:10 <tmichel> And yes we will approuved the minutes next week
16:06:28 <tzviya> Liza: focus on metadata task force
16:06:35 <ivan> Topic: Metadata Task force
16:06:38 <Zakim> + +33.6.48.38.aadd
16:06:41 <tzviya> ...Bill and madi will walk through objectives
16:06:42 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata TF wiki page
16:06:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata
16:06:51 <Luc> Luc has joined #dpub
16:06:52 <madi> Did she just say...exciting?
16:06:55 <tzviya> ...and scope
16:06:59 <ivan> zakim, aadd is Luc
16:06:59 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
16:07:01 <tzviya> BillK:
16:07:09 <ivan> zakim, unmute Bill_Kasdorf
16:07:09 <Zakim> Bill_Kasdorf should no longer be muted
16:07:55 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: created framework for discussion on wiki https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata
16:08:27 <tzviya> ... idea is to group discussion by topic
16:09:07 <tzviya> ...focus on getting thoughts onto wiki (as opposed to list, but encourage) discussion
16:09:38 <tzviya> ...Scope: 2 tasks: identify problems of publishers and metadata
16:09:45 <tzviya> ...and collect use cases
16:10:13 <ivan> q+
16:10:18 <tzviya> ...Ivan asked if this is the correct group within W3C to work on this
16:10:42 <tzviya> ...our group is appropriate to raise issues, not necessarily solve them
16:10:55 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
16:11:09 <tzviya> ...Markus suggested raising what the issues are, get the conversation going
16:11:21 <tzviya> ...How broad do we want to make this?
16:11:49 <tzviya> ...publishers tend to focus on supply chain metadata because it gets publications out into the world
16:12:10 <tzviya> ...there is a whole world of library metadata that is very active
16:12:56 <tzviya> ...Do we want to include library (cataloging) metadata? Do we want to think about interoperability?
16:13:06 <azaroth> q+
16:13:31 <ivan> ack ivan
16:13:43 <Zakim> +Suzanne_Taylor
16:13:49 <Zakim> +??P0
16:13:56 <Luc> q+
16:14:10 <tzviya> ... will this lead to a metadata IG in W3C?
16:14:10 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P0 is me
16:14:10 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
16:14:39 <tzviya> Ivan: if we identify a hole in HTML, we know where to go to work on that
16:14:57 <philm_> philm_ has joined #dpub
16:15:04 <mgylling> ack azaroth
16:15:06 <tzviya> ...this is different, because there is not a group for that in w3c, so this could lead to an IG
16:15:26 <tzviya> ...it would need to be well-documented and explained to W3C management
16:15:45 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:15:52 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:15:52 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:15:53 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:16:00 <tzviya> Rob: distinguishing between cataloging and supply chain metadata will be difficult
16:16:04 <mgylling> ack Luc
16:16:09 <tzviya> ...for example, which is title?
16:16:54 <tzviya> Luc: supply chain metadata is important, yes. We would like to figure out how to enrich the product internally
16:17:56 <tzviya> ...there is global metadata (author, title, etc) and there is metadata inside the product
16:18:16 <mgylling> q?
16:18:19 <tzviya> ....We see that HTML is not a semantic language - this is content metadata
16:19:23 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: I see this in my work through use of generic tagging, such as <div.metadata>
16:19:34 <gcapiel> What about Schema.org?
16:19:40 <tzviya> ...publishers are doing this in non-standard or non-normative ways
16:20:15 <azaroth> Isn't interoperability "how" not "what"?
16:20:25 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
16:20:48 <tzviya> Liza: listing publishers' problems today: publishers get around this, but there are not common solutions
16:20:50 <tzviya> q+
16:20:59 <azaroth> q+ to ask isn't interop "how" not "what"?
16:21:06 <Zakim> +Bert
16:21:34 <mgylling> ack tzviya
16:22:12 <Luc> §1
16:22:17 <mgylling> ack azaroth
16:22:17 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask isn't interop "how" not "what"?
16:22:21 <Luc> +1
16:22:51 <tzviya> Tzviya: Sub-package level metadata is something that publishers love about XML (and prevents them from moving to HTML)
16:23:16 <ivan> q+
16:23:29 <tzviya> ...more granular metadata will be a game changer in shifting from XML to HTML
16:23:50 <tzviya> Rob: Interop seems to be something that we can approach later
16:24:13 <tzviya> ...more of a how to we approach this, then a "what" is this?
16:24:42 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: that is true, but it also addresses the need from common practices
16:24:42 <mgylling> q?
16:24:46 <mgylling> ack ivan
16:24:47 <ivan> ack ivan
16:25:48 <azaroth> +1 to separation of syntax and semantics .... where possible
16:26:18 <tzviya> Ivan: Let's separate 3 problem areas: mechanism for expresssion (syntax), vocabularies (and relationship of vocab), id mechanisms for targets
16:26:39 <tzviya> ...of these 3 the syntax is the simplest issue
16:26:57 <tzviya> ...there are well-defined existing syntaxes
16:27:31 <tzviya> Liza: Who is audience?
16:28:06 <tzviya> Bill_kasdorf: Should we include library/cataloging metadata in scope?
16:28:26 <tzviya> rob: We should focus on the people who are here, the publishers
16:28:27 <ivan> q+
16:28:39 <Luc> q+
16:28:53 <madi> I can't seem to un-mute myself, but I agree with Rob.  Let's keep with the publishers.
16:29:06 <azaroth> zakim, unmute madi
16:29:06 <Zakim> madi should no longer be muted
16:29:28 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: there are huge undertakings in library world and little agreement
16:29:48 <tzviya> Madi: I agree, particularly with Liza and Rob
16:30:18 <tzviya> ...We should stick with publisher (supply chain) metadata. Publishers are behind the times
16:30:31 <mgylling> q?
16:30:38 <mgylling> ack ivan
16:30:41 <azaroth> q+
16:30:44 <tzviya> ...we have an opportunity to bring publishing up to speed
16:30:49 <Zakim> -madi
16:31:40 <tzviya> ivan: Who is the target of the metadata that publishers produce?
16:32:26 <azaroth> q+ schema not liked in libraries, and retain some focus on non packaged content (eg web not epub)
16:32:34 <azaroth> zakim, really?
16:32:34 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, azaroth.
16:32:37 <tzviya> ...someone put schema.org into the notes. If we want to work with schema.org, then we need to know what partners schema.org recognizes
16:32:52 <azaroth> q+ to say schema not liked in libraries, and retain some focus on non packaged content (eg web not epub)
16:33:46 <ivan> q?
16:33:53 <karen> q+
16:34:15 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: Magazine world created verbose vocabulary for recipes. Within a specific group, there is a need for more expressive vocabulary than more widely recognized
16:35:02 <mgylling> ack Luc
16:35:04 <tzviya> Luc: publishers want consumers to discover books and to be able to improve accessibility
16:35:06 <tzviya> q+
16:35:12 <mgylling> ack azaroth
16:35:12 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to say schema not liked in libraries, and retain some focus on non packaged content (eg web not epub)
16:35:53 <tzviya> Rob: only a small portion of library world likes schema.org
16:36:42 <tzviya> ...we need to keep an eye on non-packaged content. Content lives outside the web - let's see what goes on outside EPUB
16:36:47 <tzviya> +1
16:37:00 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf
16:37:41 <mgylling> ack karen
16:37:49 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: extensive vocabulary for magazine recipes was for content management, not delivery
16:38:14 <lizadaly> +1 for emphasizing outcomes and benefits
16:38:18 <tzviya> Karen: we need to be compelling about the business benefits, beginning to hear about the benefits
16:38:39 <lizadaly> Maybe as a flip side to focusing on 'problems'?
16:38:46 <tzviya> ...are there other business benefits that we'd find compelling?
16:38:55 <mgylling> ack tzviya
16:40:24 <ivan> q+
16:41:25 <tzviya> tzviya: we need to make a distinction between content management "metadata" and supply chain metadata - we have too many subject areas to manage
16:41:36 <mgylling> +1
16:41:46 <mgylling> ack ivan
16:42:31 <tzviya> 'Bill_Kasdorf: we may be able to recommend a method for HOW to manage different vocabularies not what they are
16:43:04 <tzviya> Ivan: the line between adaptive UI and metadata is fuzzy  - we may have to draw a clear line
16:43:37 <tzviya> ...it may be useful to do a cataloging of existing vocabularies
16:43:47 <Suzanne> +1
16:43:54 <ivan> http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/
16:43:56 <tzviya> ...without mapping, just a list with information about what they are and how they relate
16:44:26 <tzviya> ...similar to linked data vocab set (link above)
16:44:52 <tzviya> data/s/open
16:45:44 <tzviya> Bill_Kadrof: these are all RDF vocabularies
16:46:20 <Zakim> -JeanKaplansky
16:46:20 <mgylling> q?
16:46:46 <azaroth> Ivan: Yep :S
16:47:33 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: Please go to wiki and comments
16:47:37 <lizadaly> Yes please!
16:48:33 <astearns> zakim, who is noisy?
16:48:41 <tzviya> liza: we have consensus that will focus on supply chain (publisher) metadata (not library)
16:48:42 <lizadaly> RECESS
16:48:45 <Zakim> astearns, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bill_Kasdorf (35%), Luc (4%), Ivan (4%)
16:49:48 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: is thus group likely to go to the step of W3C document as deliverable? What are the deliverables for this group?
16:50:15 <azaroth> Notes: We're primarily doing the Note because of the transition to a Working Group from Community Group
16:50:17 <tzviya> Markus: first thing should be the low hanging fruit: issues that pubs deal with
16:50:26 <ivan> +1 to Markus
16:50:32 <tzviya> ...things that are too costly, too hard, not possible
16:50:50 <azaroth> Rather than something formal for the IG
16:50:55 <tzviya> ...see brain dump from Luc and others like him about things that cannot be done
16:50:56 <azaroth> +1 to Markus
16:51:23 <tzviya> ...this will bring us the data points toward next steps
16:51:24 <karen> +1
16:51:26 <Luc> +1
16:51:53 <astearns> complaints *are* use cases. "I would like to..."
16:52:27 <tzviya> Markus: these complaints are use cases
16:53:40 <tzviya> Luc:  I will add use cases to wiki
16:53:54 <tzviya> I will add STM use cases
16:54:22 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: send note to list when add info to wiki
16:55:21 <tzviya> Liza: Topic: next week's meeting
16:55:25 <lizadaly> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html
16:55:30 <tzviya> ...DOM pagination
16:56:10 <tzviya> Markus: Looking for a task force lead and participants
16:56:29 <ivan> +q
16:56:37 <dauwhe> q+
16:56:42 <tzviya> ...programmatic access to pagination
16:56:45 <ivan> q later
16:56:49 <lizadaly> (Not me, we've given up on pagination)
16:57:07 <azaroth> (+1 to liza)
16:57:08 <tzviya> ...publishers are doing this is in different ways
16:57:22 <mgylling> ack dauwhe
16:57:25 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:57:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
16:57:38 <tzviya> .. this is about attaching events and using the DOM
16:57:52 <lizadaly> -1000 page transition animations
16:58:07 <tzviya> Dave: the CSS WG is aware of this and beginning to discuss transitions associated with page
16:58:38 <tzviya> Ivan: do we know who will be at EDUPUB in Salt Lake City?
16:59:00 <Luc> +1000 to Liza comment on no page transition animations
16:59:06 <tzviya> jean, tzviya, billK, markus, Julie, Ivan, gerardo will attend
16:59:36 <tzviya> Ivan: Should I create repo for annotations?
16:59:42 <tzviya> Rob: yes
16:59:55 <tzviya> Action: ivan create annotations repo
16:59:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Create annotations repo [on Ivan Herman - due 2014-02-10].
17:00:23 <tzviya> Ivan: officially recognize Julie Morris
17:00:27 <TomDN> bye
17:00:28 <Zakim> -Philm
17:00:30 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
17:00:31 <Zakim> -Vlad
17:00:31 <Zakim> -Bert
17:00:31 <Zakim> -azaroth
17:00:32 <Zakim> -Julie_Morris__BISG
17:00:32 <Zakim> -dshkolnik
17:00:34 <Zakim> -Tzviya
17:00:34 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
17:00:34 <Zakim> -dauwhe
17:00:35 <Zakim> -TomDN
17:00:36 <Zakim> -fjh
17:00:37 <Zakim> -mgylling
17:00:38 <Zakim> -gcapiel.a
17:00:39 <Zakim> -Suzanne_Taylor
17:00:41 <Zakim> -Luc
17:00:46 <Zakim> -astearns
17:00:48 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:02:03 <Zakim> -tmichel
17:03:00 <gcapiel1> gcapiel1 has joined #dpub
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17:03:09 <dauwhe> Start of thread on page transitions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0093.html
17:25:30 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:25:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
17:27:09 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
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18:32:26 <Zakim> -lizadaly
18:37:27 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, gcapiel, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
18:37:28 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
18:37:28 <Zakim> Attendees were dauwhe, Vlad, +1.212.364.aaaa, azaroth, Ivan.a, Ivan, Tzviya, dshkolnik, +1.206.675.aabb, gcapiel, Karen_Myers, Philm, lizadaly, +1.347.633.aacc, astearns,
18:37:29 <Zakim> ... Bill_Kasdorf, mgylling, TomDN, Julie_Morris__BISG, madi, JeanKaplansky, fjh, tmichel, +33.6.48.38.aadd, Luc, Suzanne_Taylor, Bert
19:20:11 <gcapiel> gcapiel has joined #dpub
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