IRC log of dpub on 2014-02-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:14:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:14:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-irc
15:14:18 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:14:18 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dpub
15:14:20 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be dpub
15:14:20 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes
15:14:21 [trackbot]
Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:14:21 [trackbot]
Date: 03 February 2014
15:19:52 [karen]
Last note was sent to list on 15 December not November
15:22:08 [karen]
http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces
15:32:28 [karen]
Ivan: task forces identified
15:37:30 [Philm]
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mgylling has joined #dpub
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Vlad has joined #dpub
15:56:33 [Zakim]
DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
15:56:40 [Zakim]
+dauwhe
15:56:52 [Julie_Morris__BISG]
Julie_Morris__BISG has joined #dpub
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azaroth has joined #DPUB
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dshkolnik has joined #dpub
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tzviya has joined #dpub
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+Vlad
15:58:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.212.364.aaaa
15:58:51 [fjh]
fjh has joined #dpub
15:58:52 [Zakim]
+azaroth
15:59:06 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:59:07 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:59:09 [Zakim]
+Ivan.a
15:59:16 [gcapiel]
gcapiel has joined #dpub
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+AWK
15:59:27 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:59:27 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:59:28 [Zakim]
+Ivan
15:59:29 [Zakim]
+Tzviya
15:59:36 [lizadaly]
lizadaly has joined #dpub
15:59:45 [dshkolnik]
Zakim, AWK is dshkolnik
15:59:45 [Zakim]
+dshkolnik; got it
16:00:05 [dauwhe]
zakim, unmute me
16:00:05 [Zakim]
dauwhe should no longer be muted
16:00:12 [Zakim]
-Ivan.a
16:00:19 [Zakim]
+??P28
16:00:26 [ivan]
zakim, unmute me
16:00:26 [Zakim]
Ivan should no longer be muted
16:00:39 [tzviya]
zakim, unmute me
16:00:39 [Zakim]
Tzviya should no longer be muted
16:00:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.675.aabb
16:00:41 [ivan]
zakim, unmute everybody
16:00:41 [Zakim]
sorry, ivan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to everybody
16:00:42 [azaroth]
zakim, unmute me
16:00:42 [Zakim]
azaroth should no longer be muted
16:00:45 [gcapiel]
Zakim, ??P28 is me
16:00:45 [Zakim]
+gcapiel; got it
16:00:54 [Zakim]
+Karen_Myers
16:01:06 [ivan]
zakim, aaaa is Philm
16:01:06 [Zakim]
+Philm; got it
16:01:17 [Zakim]
+lizadaly
16:01:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.347.633.aacc
16:01:24 [Zakim]
+??P31
16:01:29 [TomDN]
TomDN has joined #dpub
16:01:30 [Bill_Kasdorf]
Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:01:37 [astearns]
zakim, aabb is me
16:01:37 [Zakim]
+astearns; got it
16:01:41 [Zakim]
+Bill_Kasdorf
16:01:43 [mgylling]
zakim, ??P31 is me
16:01:43 [Zakim]
+mgylling; got it
16:01:46 [Zakim]
+[Ugent]
16:01:54 [TomDN]
Zakim, Ugent is me
16:01:54 [Zakim]
+TomDN; got it
16:01:54 [lizadaly]
zakim, unmute me
16:01:55 [Zakim]
lizadaly should no longer be muted
16:02:02 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
16:02:02 [Zakim]
TomDN was already muted, TomDN
16:02:08 [ivan]
zakim, aacc is Julie_Morris__BISG
16:02:08 [Zakim]
+Julie_Morris__BISG; got it
16:02:08 [astearns]
zakim, unmute me
16:02:10 [Zakim]
astearns should no longer be muted
16:02:22 [Zakim]
+madi
16:02:26 [tzviya]
scribe: tzviya
16:02:43 [Zakim]
+JeanKaplansky
16:02:51 [madi]
madi has joined #dpub
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+[IPcaller]
16:02:59 [fjh]
zakim, IPcaller is me
16:02:59 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
16:03:05 [tmichel]
tmichel has joined #dpub
16:03:56 [dshkolnik]
Zakim, mute me
16:03:56 [Zakim]
dshkolnik was already muted, dshkolnik
16:04:21 [karen]
q+
16:04:30 [tzviya]
liza: apprive minutes from last week
16:04:31 [ivan]
ack karen
16:04:33 [Zakim]
+??P42
16:04:43 [tmichel]
Zakim, ??P42 is me
16:04:43 [Zakim]
+tmichel; got it
16:04:45 [JeanK]
JeanK has joined #dpub
16:04:51 [tzviya]
karen: unsure if minutes corrected, missed a few point
16:05:07 [tzviya]
s/point/points
16:05:08 [dauwhe]
http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-27
16:05:10 [ivan]
http://www.w3.org/2013/dpub-IG-minutes/2014-01-27.html
16:05:15 [mgylling]
zakim, unmute me
16:05:15 [Zakim]
mgylling should no longer be muted
16:05:42 [tzviya]
markus: have not sent corrections to thierry yet
16:05:55 [tmichel]
send me the corrections that are needed ...
16:06:05 [tzviya]
karen: my rec is to update the minutes and approve next week
16:06:10 [tmichel]
And yes we will approuved the minutes next week
16:06:28 [tzviya]
Liza: focus on metadata task force
16:06:35 [ivan]
Topic: Metadata Task force
16:06:38 [Zakim]
+ +33.6.48.38.aadd
16:06:41 [tzviya]
...Bill and madi will walk through objectives
16:06:42 [ivan]
-> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata TF wiki page
16:06:43 [Bill_Kasdorf]
https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata
16:06:51 [Luc]
Luc has joined #dpub
16:06:52 [madi]
Did she just say...exciting?
16:06:55 [tzviya]
...and scope
16:06:59 [ivan]
zakim, aadd is Luc
16:06:59 [Zakim]
+Luc; got it
16:07:01 [tzviya]
BillK:
16:07:09 [ivan]
zakim, unmute Bill_Kasdorf
16:07:09 [Zakim]
Bill_Kasdorf should no longer be muted
16:07:55 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: created framework for discussion on wiki https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata
16:08:27 [tzviya]
... idea is to group discussion by topic
16:09:07 [tzviya]
...focus on getting thoughts onto wiki (as opposed to list, but encourage) discussion
16:09:38 [tzviya]
...Scope: 2 tasks: identify problems of publishers and metadata
16:09:45 [tzviya]
...and collect use cases
16:10:13 [ivan]
q+
16:10:18 [tzviya]
...Ivan asked if this is the correct group within W3C to work on this
16:10:42 [tzviya]
...our group is appropriate to raise issues, not necessarily solve them
16:10:55 [gcapiel]
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16:11:09 [tzviya]
...Markus suggested raising what the issues are, get the conversation going
16:11:21 [tzviya]
...How broad do we want to make this?
16:11:49 [tzviya]
...publishers tend to focus on supply chain metadata because it gets publications out into the world
16:12:10 [tzviya]
...there is a whole world of library metadata that is very active
16:12:56 [tzviya]
...Do we want to include library (cataloging) metadata? Do we want to think about interoperability?
16:13:06 [azaroth]
q+
16:13:31 [ivan]
ack ivan
16:13:43 [Zakim]
+Suzanne_Taylor
16:13:49 [Zakim]
+??P0
16:13:56 [Luc]
q+
16:14:10 [tzviya]
... will this lead to a metadata IG in W3C?
16:14:10 [gcapiel]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
16:14:10 [Zakim]
+gcapiel; got it
16:14:39 [tzviya]
Ivan: if we identify a hole in HTML, we know where to go to work on that
16:14:57 [philm_]
philm_ has joined #dpub
16:15:04 [mgylling]
ack azaroth
16:15:06 [tzviya]
...this is different, because there is not a group for that in w3c, so this could lead to an IG
16:15:26 [tzviya]
...it would need to be well-documented and explained to W3C management
16:15:45 [Zakim]
-Ivan
16:15:52 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:15:52 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:15:53 [Zakim]
+Ivan
16:16:00 [tzviya]
Rob: distinguishing between cataloging and supply chain metadata will be difficult
16:16:04 [mgylling]
ack Luc
16:16:09 [tzviya]
...for example, which is title?
16:16:54 [tzviya]
Luc: supply chain metadata is important, yes. We would like to figure out how to enrich the product internally
16:17:56 [tzviya]
...there is global metadata (author, title, etc) and there is metadata inside the product
16:18:16 [mgylling]
q?
16:18:19 [tzviya]
....We see that HTML is not a semantic language - this is content metadata
16:19:23 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: I see this in my work through use of generic tagging, such as <div.metadata>
16:19:34 [gcapiel]
What about Schema.org?
16:19:40 [tzviya]
...publishers are doing this in non-standard or non-normative ways
16:20:15 [azaroth]
Isn't interoperability "how" not "what"?
16:20:25 [Bert]
Bert has joined #dpub
16:20:48 [tzviya]
Liza: listing publishers' problems today: publishers get around this, but there are not common solutions
16:20:50 [tzviya]
q+
16:20:59 [azaroth]
q+ to ask isn't interop "how" not "what"?
16:21:06 [Zakim]
+Bert
16:21:34 [mgylling]
ack tzviya
16:22:12 [Luc]
ยง1
16:22:17 [mgylling]
ack azaroth
16:22:17 [Zakim]
azaroth, you wanted to ask isn't interop "how" not "what"?
16:22:21 [Luc]
+1
16:22:51 [tzviya]
Tzviya: Sub-package level metadata is something that publishers love about XML (and prevents them from moving to HTML)
16:23:16 [ivan]
q+
16:23:29 [tzviya]
...more granular metadata will be a game changer in shifting from XML to HTML
16:23:50 [tzviya]
Rob: Interop seems to be something that we can approach later
16:24:13 [tzviya]
...more of a how to we approach this, then a "what" is this?
16:24:42 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: that is true, but it also addresses the need from common practices
16:24:42 [mgylling]
q?
16:24:46 [mgylling]
ack ivan
16:24:47 [ivan]
ack ivan
16:25:48 [azaroth]
+1 to separation of syntax and semantics .... where possible
16:26:18 [tzviya]
Ivan: Let's separate 3 problem areas: mechanism for expresssion (syntax), vocabularies (and relationship of vocab), id mechanisms for targets
16:26:39 [tzviya]
...of these 3 the syntax is the simplest issue
16:26:57 [tzviya]
...there are well-defined existing syntaxes
16:27:31 [tzviya]
Liza: Who is audience?
16:28:06 [tzviya]
Bill_kasdorf: Should we include library/cataloging metadata in scope?
16:28:26 [tzviya]
rob: We should focus on the people who are here, the publishers
16:28:27 [ivan]
q+
16:28:39 [Luc]
q+
16:28:53 [madi]
I can't seem to un-mute myself, but I agree with Rob. Let's keep with the publishers.
16:29:06 [azaroth]
zakim, unmute madi
16:29:06 [Zakim]
madi should no longer be muted
16:29:28 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: there are huge undertakings in library world and little agreement
16:29:48 [tzviya]
Madi: I agree, particularly with Liza and Rob
16:30:18 [tzviya]
...We should stick with publisher (supply chain) metadata. Publishers are behind the times
16:30:31 [mgylling]
q?
16:30:38 [mgylling]
ack ivan
16:30:41 [azaroth]
q+
16:30:44 [tzviya]
...we have an opportunity to bring publishing up to speed
16:30:49 [Zakim]
-madi
16:31:40 [tzviya]
ivan: Who is the target of the metadata that publishers produce?
16:32:26 [azaroth]
q+ schema not liked in libraries, and retain some focus on non packaged content (eg web not epub)
16:32:34 [azaroth]
zakim, really?
16:32:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, azaroth.
16:32:37 [tzviya]
...someone put schema.org into the notes. If we want to work with schema.org, then we need to know what partners schema.org recognizes
16:32:52 [azaroth]
q+ to say schema not liked in libraries, and retain some focus on non packaged content (eg web not epub)
16:33:46 [ivan]
q?
16:33:53 [karen]
q+
16:34:15 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: Magazine world created verbose vocabulary for recipes. Within a specific group, there is a need for more expressive vocabulary than more widely recognized
16:35:02 [mgylling]
ack Luc
16:35:04 [tzviya]
Luc: publishers want consumers to discover books and to be able to improve accessibility
16:35:06 [tzviya]
q+
16:35:12 [mgylling]
ack azaroth
16:35:12 [Zakim]
azaroth, you wanted to say schema not liked in libraries, and retain some focus on non packaged content (eg web not epub)
16:35:53 [tzviya]
Rob: only a small portion of library world likes schema.org
16:36:42 [tzviya]
...we need to keep an eye on non-packaged content. Content lives outside the web - let's see what goes on outside EPUB
16:36:47 [tzviya]
+1
16:37:00 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf
16:37:41 [mgylling]
ack karen
16:37:49 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: extensive vocabulary for magazine recipes was for content management, not delivery
16:38:14 [lizadaly]
+1 for emphasizing outcomes and benefits
16:38:18 [tzviya]
Karen: we need to be compelling about the business benefits, beginning to hear about the benefits
16:38:39 [lizadaly]
Maybe as a flip side to focusing on 'problems'?
16:38:46 [tzviya]
...are there other business benefits that we'd find compelling?
16:38:55 [mgylling]
ack tzviya
16:40:24 [ivan]
q+
16:41:25 [tzviya]
tzviya: we need to make a distinction between content management "metadata" and supply chain metadata - we have too many subject areas to manage
16:41:36 [mgylling]
+1
16:41:46 [mgylling]
ack ivan
16:42:31 [tzviya]
'Bill_Kasdorf: we may be able to recommend a method for HOW to manage different vocabularies not what they are
16:43:04 [tzviya]
Ivan: the line between adaptive UI and metadata is fuzzy - we may have to draw a clear line
16:43:37 [tzviya]
...it may be useful to do a cataloging of existing vocabularies
16:43:47 [Suzanne]
+1
16:43:54 [ivan]
http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/
16:43:56 [tzviya]
...without mapping, just a list with information about what they are and how they relate
16:44:26 [tzviya]
...similar to linked data vocab set (link above)
16:44:52 [tzviya]
data/s/open
16:45:44 [tzviya]
Bill_Kadrof: these are all RDF vocabularies
16:46:20 [Zakim]
-JeanKaplansky
16:46:20 [mgylling]
q?
16:46:46 [azaroth]
Ivan: Yep :S
16:47:33 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: Please go to wiki and comments
16:47:37 [lizadaly]
Yes please!
16:48:33 [astearns]
zakim, who is noisy?
16:48:41 [tzviya]
liza: we have consensus that will focus on supply chain (publisher) metadata (not library)
16:48:42 [lizadaly]
RECESS
16:48:45 [Zakim]
astearns, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bill_Kasdorf (35%), Luc (4%), Ivan (4%)
16:49:48 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: is thus group likely to go to the step of W3C document as deliverable? What are the deliverables for this group?
16:50:15 [azaroth]
Notes: We're primarily doing the Note because of the transition to a Working Group from Community Group
16:50:17 [tzviya]
Markus: first thing should be the low hanging fruit: issues that pubs deal with
16:50:26 [ivan]
+1 to Markus
16:50:32 [tzviya]
...things that are too costly, too hard, not possible
16:50:50 [azaroth]
Rather than something formal for the IG
16:50:55 [tzviya]
...see brain dump from Luc and others like him about things that cannot be done
16:50:56 [azaroth]
+1 to Markus
16:51:23 [tzviya]
...this will bring us the data points toward next steps
16:51:24 [karen]
+1
16:51:26 [Luc]
+1
16:51:53 [astearns]
complaints *are* use cases. "I would like to..."
16:52:27 [tzviya]
Markus: these complaints are use cases
16:53:40 [tzviya]
Luc: I will add use cases to wiki
16:53:54 [tzviya]
I will add STM use cases
16:54:22 [tzviya]
Bill_Kasdorf: send note to list when add info to wiki
16:55:21 [tzviya]
Liza: Topic: next week's meeting
16:55:25 [lizadaly]
http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html
16:55:30 [tzviya]
...DOM pagination
16:56:10 [tzviya]
Markus: Looking for a task force lead and participants
16:56:29 [ivan]
+q
16:56:37 [dauwhe]
q+
16:56:42 [tzviya]
...programmatic access to pagination
16:56:45 [ivan]
q later
16:56:49 [lizadaly]
(Not me, we've given up on pagination)
16:57:07 [azaroth]
(+1 to liza)
16:57:08 [tzviya]
...publishers are doing this is in different ways
16:57:22 [mgylling]
ack dauwhe
16:57:25 [tmichel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:57:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
16:57:38 [tzviya]
.. this is about attaching events and using the DOM
16:57:52 [lizadaly]
-1000 page transition animations
16:58:07 [tzviya]
Dave: the CSS WG is aware of this and beginning to discuss transitions associated with page
16:58:38 [tzviya]
Ivan: do we know who will be at EDUPUB in Salt Lake City?
16:59:00 [Luc]
+1000 to Liza comment on no page transition animations
16:59:06 [tzviya]
jean, tzviya, billK, markus, Julie, Ivan, gerardo will attend
16:59:36 [tzviya]
Ivan: Should I create repo for annotations?
16:59:42 [tzviya]
Rob: yes
16:59:55 [tzviya]
Action: ivan create annotations repo
16:59:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-16 - Create annotations repo [on Ivan Herman - due 2014-02-10].
17:00:23 [tzviya]
Ivan: officially recognize Julie Morris
17:00:27 [TomDN]
bye
17:00:28 [Zakim]
-Philm
17:00:30 [Zakim]
-Karen_Myers
17:00:31 [Zakim]
-Vlad
17:00:31 [Zakim]
-Bert
17:00:31 [Zakim]
-azaroth
17:00:32 [Zakim]
-Julie_Morris__BISG
17:00:32 [Zakim]
-dshkolnik
17:00:34 [Zakim]
-Tzviya
17:00:34 [Zakim]
-Bill_Kasdorf
17:00:34 [Zakim]
-dauwhe
17:00:35 [Zakim]
-TomDN
17:00:36 [Zakim]
-fjh
17:00:37 [Zakim]
-mgylling
17:00:38 [Zakim]
-gcapiel.a
17:00:39 [Zakim]
-Suzanne_Taylor
17:00:41 [Zakim]
-Luc
17:00:46 [Zakim]
-astearns
17:00:48 [Zakim]
-Ivan
17:02:03 [Zakim]
-tmichel
17:03:00 [gcapiel1]
gcapiel1 has joined #dpub
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fjh has left #dpub
17:03:09 [dauwhe]
Start of thread on page transitions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0093.html
17:25:30 [tmichel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:25:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
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mgylling has joined #dpub
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gcapiel has joined #dpub
18:11:57 [Bert]
Bert has left #dpub
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liam has joined #dpub
18:32:26 [Zakim]
-lizadaly
18:37:27 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, gcapiel, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
18:37:28 [Zakim]
DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
18:37:28 [Zakim]
Attendees were dauwhe, Vlad, +1.212.364.aaaa, azaroth, Ivan.a, Ivan, Tzviya, dshkolnik, +1.206.675.aabb, gcapiel, Karen_Myers, Philm, lizadaly, +1.347.633.aacc, astearns,
18:37:29 [Zakim]
... Bill_Kasdorf, mgylling, TomDN, Julie_Morris__BISG, madi, JeanKaplansky, fjh, tmichel, +33.6.48.38.aadd, Luc, Suzanne_Taylor, Bert
19:20:11 [gcapiel]
gcapiel has joined #dpub
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