IRC log of w3process on 2014-01-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:28:35 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/27-w3process-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
15:28:37 [Zakim]
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15:28:39 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
15:28:39 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:28:40 [trackbot]
Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference
15:28:40 [trackbot]
Date: 27 January 2014
15:28:44 [koalie]
Zakim, this will be chap7
15:28:44 [Zakim]
ok, koalie; I see Team_JEFF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes
15:29:09 [koalie]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Jan/0025.html
15:31:03 [koalie]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Jan/0009.html Minutes and summary of previous (2014-01-13)
15:31:20 [koalie]
s/<koalie> ->/<koaliie> ->/G
15:31:24 [koalie]
chair: SteveZilles
15:31:32 [koalie]
scribe: Coralie
15:31:34 [koalie]
scribenick: koalie
15:33:28 [koalie]
agenda+ Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81
15:33:36 [koalie]
agenda+ Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84
15:33:41 [koalie]
agenda+ Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review
15:33:49 [koalie]
agenda+ Review Revised Chapter 7 Organization
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+koalie
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+ +1.206.675.aaaa
16:01:45 [koalie]
Zakim, aaaa is SteveZ
16:01:46 [Zakim]
+SteveZ; got it
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+Mike_Champion
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+Ralph
16:08:53 [SteveZ]
Agenda: 1.Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81 http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/raised">http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/raised">http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/raised https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/closed 2.Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84 http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/raised https://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/open 3.Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review 4.Review Revised Chapter 7 Organization http://www.w3.org/co[CUT]
16:08:56 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:09:03 [chaals]
zakim, [ip is me
16:09:03 [Zakim]
+chaals; got it
16:10:04 [koalie]
Zakim, agenda?
16:10:04 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:10:05 [Zakim]
1. Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81 [from koalie]
16:10:05 [Zakim]
2. Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84 [from koalie]
16:10:05 [Zakim]
3. Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review [from koalie]
16:10:05 [Zakim]
4. Review Revised Chapter 7 Organization [from koalie]
16:10:16 [koalie]
Zakim, take up item 1
16:10:16 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Complete closure of issues 56-58, 67, 70, 72, 81" taken up [from koalie]
16:10:37 [koalie]
SteveZ: issues 56-58 may have been implemented in the Jan. 21 draft
16:10:40 [koalie]
... I closed thos
16:10:45 [koalie]
s/thos/those/
16:10:49 [koalie]
issue-67?
16:10:49 [trackbot]
issue-67 -- Rather than change LC and CR, it seems like it would be more effective to attack the cycle problem via Education and Outreach -- closed
16:10:49 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/67
16:11:32 [koalie]
SteveZ: I closed it and we opened issue-83 instead
16:11:35 [koalie]
issue-83
16:11:35 [trackbot]
issue-83 -- Explicitly allow WGs to customize process steps in their charters -- open
16:11:35 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/83
16:11:49 [koalie]
SteveZ: It was Jeff's request to close it with opening another
16:12:03 [koalie]
... Thanks Mike for the suggestion
16:12:11 [koalie]
issue-70?
16:12:11 [trackbot]
issue-70 -- Usage of "normative" needs clarification -- pending review
16:12:11 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/70
16:12:29 [koalie]
SteveZ: This as been implemented as far as I can tell
16:12:36 [koalie]
Chaals: Yes, I implemented this quite a while ago
16:12:42 [koalie]
SteveZ: I'll close issue-70
16:13:03 [koalie]
issue-70: chaals: I implemented this quite a while ago
16:13:03 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-70 Usage of "normative" needs clarification.
16:13:17 [koalie]
issue-72?
16:13:17 [trackbot]
issue-72 -- Rationalising the definition of different types of change -- pending review
16:13:17 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/72
16:13:46 [koalie]
SteveZ: You did implement that. The one suggestion that came up was that you move the combined thing up to 7.2 section where the other definitions are
16:13:51 [koalie]
... so people get to see it early
16:13:58 [koalie]
... and reference it back in 7.8
16:14:07 [chaals]
ACTION: chaals to move changes section earlier in document
16:14:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-27 - Move changes section earlier in document [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-02-03].
16:14:52 [koalie]
issue-72: suggestion to move the combined thing up to 7.2 where other definitions are and reference it back in 7.8
16:14:52 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-72 Rationalising the definition of different types of change.
16:15:53 [koalie]
SteveZ: I left issue-72 as "pending" because of action-27
16:16:05 [koalie]
issue-82?
16:16:05 [trackbot]
issue-82 -- Process for provisional approval -- closed
16:16:05 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/82
16:16:42 [koalie]
issue-81
16:16:42 [trackbot]
issue-81 -- Opening of AC review -- pending review
16:16:42 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/81
16:16:48 [koalie]
SteveZ: I noted you implemented that one too
16:16:58 [koalie]
... Closing that one too
16:17:10 [koalie]
issue-81: chaals implemented it too
16:17:10 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-81 Opening of AC review.
16:18:17 [koalie]
chaals: issue-59 has been implemented except "end game" split as issue-57
16:20:10 [koalie]
SteveZ: Did we really resolve issue-57?
16:20:13 [koalie]
issue-57
16:20:13 [trackbot]
issue-57 -- Avoid using the term "publishing" for Editor's Drafts -- closed
16:20:13 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/57
16:20:23 [koalie]
chaals: Yes
16:21:50 [koalie]
SteveZ: Found it in 7.2.1
16:21:58 [koalie]
... closing that one ...
16:23:21 [koalie]
issue-47
16:23:21 [trackbot]
issue-47 -- What kind of changes can be "silently" made to a document in /TR -- pending review
16:23:21 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/47
16:23:45 [koalie]
SteveZ: Didn't we reject it?
16:23:52 [koalie]
chaals: We haven't made significant changes
16:24:02 [koalie]
... we agreed on the conditions under which we could make the changes
16:24:33 [koalie]
SteveZ: other than clarifying the definition of change and substantive changes, no other correction were made
16:25:17 [koalie]
issue-47: We rejected it, after agreeing on the conditions under which we could make the changes. Other than clarifying the definition of change and substantive changes, no other correction were made
16:25:17 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-47 What kind of changes can be "silently" made to a document in /TR.
16:25:45 [koalie]
SteveZ: 61 to 67 open for now
16:25:53 [koalie]
issue-75
16:25:53 [trackbot]
issue-75 -- How and to whom are transitions announced? -- pending review
16:25:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/75
16:26:06 [koalie]
SteveZ: it's on my list for discussion.
16:26:42 [koalie]
... Chaals you said you felt calling out WGs
16:26:52 [koalie]
ack me
16:27:03 [koalie]
... Do these announcements go to chairs?
16:27:06 [koalie]
chaals: No
16:27:18 [koalie]
... practice shoud change to follow the process
16:27:26 [koalie]
s/shoud/should/
16:28:22 [koalie]
http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=fpwd-wd-tr
16:28:37 [koalie]
[[In order to facilitate peer review, once the document has been published, the Chair sends a transition announcement to chairs@w3.org and the group's public mailing list. ]]
16:29:07 [koalie]
chaals: My proposal is to @@ and not change the process
16:29:28 [koalie]
... the point is to enforce it
16:29:41 [koalie]
Mike: my counter suggestion is, what problem are we trying to solve
16:29:59 [chaals]
q+
16:30:01 [koalie]
... and how to specify the announcement, or leave unspecified and leave it to the group to do the right thing
16:30:20 [koalie]
Mike: sending a message to a mailing list is not necessariy the right thing
16:30:25 [chaals]
s/@@/enforce the requirement better if we are not doing it,/
16:30:32 [chaals]
q+
16:30:41 [koalie]
SteveZ: it just says "announce"
16:30:50 [koalie]
Mike: Leaving it to the discretion of the chair
16:31:24 [koalie]
SteveZ: The process says the Director announces to the members and the public.
16:31:55 [koalie]
Mike: We should encourage the Director collectively to not just put it on the W3C homepage
16:32:13 [koalie]
... there are relatively few of us who follow the W3C homepage
16:32:32 [koalie]
... I agree with chaals, the team needs to figure out how to make sure the proper audience gets notified
16:33:39 [koalie]
s/to the members and the public/to other W3C groups and to the public/
16:34:24 [koalie]
SteveZ: I added to tracker " mechanisms are left to the Team and should be the current mechanisms"
16:34:29 [koalie]
... We're closing that one
16:34:55 [koalie]
issue-47?
16:34:55 [trackbot]
issue-47 -- What kind of changes can be "silently" made to a document in /TR -- pending review
16:34:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/47
16:35:13 [koalie]
SteveZ: I forgot to close it... [closing]
16:35:39 [koalie]
... all pending review are dealt with
16:35:46 [koalie]
... that takes us to open issues
16:36:04 [koalie]
Zakim, close this item
16:36:04 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, koalie
16:36:26 [koalie]
q- ch
16:36:29 [koalie]
Zakim, close this item
16:36:29 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
16:36:30 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:36:30 [Zakim]
2. Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84 [from koalie]
16:36:32 [koalie]
Zakim, next item
16:36:32 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Discuss Issues 69, 74, 75, 79, 80, 83 and 84" taken up [from koalie]
16:37:02 [Ralph]
issue-74?
16:37:02 [trackbot]
issue-74 -- Must specs describe next steps? -- open
16:37:02 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/74
16:37:11 [koalie]
chaals: My suggestion is to use a MUST
16:37:22 [koalie]
SteveZ: Any objection?
16:37:36 [koalie]
SteveZ: Resolved
16:37:40 [chaals]
ACTION: chaals to make the setting of expectations / next step in documents a must (ISSUE-74)
16:37:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-28 - Make the setting of expectations / next step in documents a must (issue-74) [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-02-03].
16:38:11 [koalie]
RESOLUTION: issue-74: change SHOULD to MUST
16:38:19 [koalie]
issue-52
16:38:19 [trackbot]
issue-52 -- How is satisfying “widely reviewed” encouraged/ensured? -- open
16:38:19 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/52
16:38:30 [koalie]
SteveZ: You still have work to do on that one?
16:38:42 [koalie]
chaals: I don't see action related to issue-52
16:39:06 [koalie]
SteveZ: ... oh that's issue-77
16:39:55 [koalie]
chaals: Do we introduce some formal change? do we adopt Mike's proposal of issue-83? do we decide that beyond addressing 83 we're not going to do anything and this is up to the WG to choose at transition?
16:40:07 [koalie]
SteveZ: I'm willing to close this one in favour of issue-83
16:40:14 [koalie]
chaals: Mkes sense to me
16:40:19 [koalie]
s/Mk/Mak/
16:40:20 [chaals]
s/choose at/demonstrate at/
16:40:39 [koalie]
issue-52: closing in favour of issue-83
16:40:39 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-52 How is satisfying “widely reviewed” encouraged/ensured?.
16:41:22 [chaals]
s/do anything and/do anything more to the document. How to get review is up to the WG and that they did/
16:41:42 [koalie]
SteveZ: So we closed issue-52
16:41:56 [koalie]
issue-76
16:41:56 [trackbot]
issue-76 -- Requirement to document changes between CR publications -- open
16:41:56 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/76
16:42:23 [koalie]
chaals: I'd suggest that next we do this it be an action under issue-77
16:42:53 [koalie]
issue-76: tied to issue-77
16:42:53 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-76 Requirement to document changes between CR publications.
16:43:12 [koalie]
issue-78
16:43:12 [trackbot]
issue-78 -- Requirements for public discussion and wide review of rescindment request are redundant -- open
16:43:12 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/78
16:43:48 [koalie]
chaals: Ian wants to simplify the requirements for rescinding recommendation
16:43:55 [koalie]
... he says there's a redundant step
16:44:07 [koalie]
... if you clarify that WG makes request and the Director decides
16:44:11 [koalie]
... I agree with the issue
16:44:27 [koalie]
... it takes a bit of shuffling of the text on rescinding recommendation
16:44:50 [koalie]
... basically there's a statement that you can rescind on public comment
16:45:11 [koalie]
... Ian's proposal is: The request may come from the WG and the Director is to decide.
16:45:37 [koalie]
SteveZ: There may be no WG to rescind. In fact it's likely.
16:46:08 [koalie]
chaals: The director is likely to ask where the public comment is.
16:46:28 [koalie]
SteveZ: I agree
16:46:30 [chaals]
s/The director/In the case where a request comes from a WG the Director/
16:46:55 [koalie]
SteveZ: You want to get rid of the "should" bullet?
16:46:59 [koalie]
chaals: Yes
16:47:05 [koalie]
SteveZ: Mike, Ralph?
16:47:08 [koalie]
[no comment]
16:48:00 [koalie]
RESOLUTION: issue-78 Drop the Should bullet in @@@
16:49:02 [koalie]
s/in @@@/in 7.8/
16:50:58 [koalie]
issue-83
16:50:58 [trackbot]
issue-83 -- Explicitly allow WGs to customize process steps in their charters -- open
16:50:58 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/83
16:51:05 [koalie]
chaals: I propose we add: Groups are welcome to create their own additional procedures. A status of information is available
16:51:34 [koalie]
... and I suggest we move the rest of that issue
16:51:35 [chaals]
ACTION: chaals to put an informative note in saying specific work items may have added custom process (ISSUE-83)
16:51:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-29 - Put an informative note in saying specific work items may have added custom process (issue-83) [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2014-02-03].
16:53:18 [Ralph]
[a Group should only be able to add to this Process, not drop steps listed here]
16:53:20 [koalie]
SteveZ: My preferred reason for sticking it in the charter is because of charter review
16:53:45 [koalie]
SteveZ: issue-83 goes from open to pending review
16:53:52 [koalie]
issue-84
16:53:52 [trackbot]
issue-84 -- Reinstate Proposed Recommendation -- open
16:53:52 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/84
16:54:32 [koalie]
chaals: This is a blocker for issue-77, my proposal is to reinstate Proposed Recommendationa
16:54:38 [koalie]
s/tiona/tion/
16:54:51 [koalie]
SteveZ: doesn't trigger patent review, or anything?
16:54:59 [koalie]
chaals: It triggers a stop clock
16:55:42 [koalie]
SteveZ: another comment. An entry requirement is that the final patent exclusion period has ended
16:56:39 [koalie]
chaals: the clock is there, the should requirement is there to ensure you know what you're doing
16:57:01 [koalie]
SteveZ: I'm ok with a should.
16:58:02 [koalie]
RESOLUTION: issue-84: reinstate proposed recommendation that says that 4 weeks remain in the AC Review period and has no other consequences.
16:58:16 [koalie]
SteveZ: issue-84 is now pending review
16:58:36 [koalie]
Zakim, close this item
16:58:37 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
16:58:37 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:58:37 [Zakim]
3. Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review [from koalie]
16:58:43 [koalie]
Zakim, next item
16:58:43 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Preparation of a Final Process Document for AC Review" taken up [from koalie]
16:59:09 [koalie]
SteveZ: We should be thinking about how to get to a full document for review at the March AB f2f
16:59:27 [koalie]
... chaals said issue-77 will require a lot of work
16:59:43 [koalie]
... I'm going to be incommunicado most of February
17:00:04 [koalie]
chaals: I don't see any complication at all in checking references and dependencies
17:00:21 [koalie]
Topic: Next meeting
17:00:34 [koalie]
SteveZ: Next meeting next Monday 3-Feb
17:01:04 [koalie]
chaals: Would it be annoying to hold that meeting one hour later?
17:01:32 [koalie]
chaals: nevermind, I can do it at this time
17:01:41 [koalie]
SteveZ: Thanks everyone
17:01:45 [koalie]
... adjourned.
17:01:49 [koalie]
Zakim, list attendees
17:01:49 [Zakim]
-chaals
17:01:49 [Zakim]
-Mike_Champion
17:01:49 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been koalie, +1.206.675.aaaa, SteveZ, Mike_Champion, Ralph, [IPcaller], chaals
17:01:50 [Zakim]
-SteveZ
17:02:00 [koalie]
Zakim, drop me
17:02:00 [Zakim]
koalie is being disconnected
17:02:01 [Zakim]
-koalie
17:02:35 [koalie]
make
17:02:37 [koalie]
RRSagent, make minutes
17:02:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/27-w3process-minutes.html koalie
17:04:05 [koalie]
koalie has changed the topic to: next CHAP7 meeting: 3-Feb
17:04:29 [Zakim]
-Ralph
17:04:30 [Zakim]
Team_JEFF()11:00AM has ended
17:04:30 [Zakim]
Attendees were koalie, +1.206.675.aaaa, SteveZ, Mike_Champion, Ralph, [IPcaller], chaals
17:26:11 [koalie]
issue-72: see action-27
17:26:11 [trackbot]
Notes added to issue-72 Rationalising the definition of different types of change.
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