None.
<trackbot> Date: 27 January 2014
<liza> Yes
<mgylling> karen, ok to scribe?
<tmichel> Who is 1.646.336.aabb ?
yes
<tmichel> is ??P31 JeanKaplansky OR Karen_Myers ,
Markus Gylling: Let's get going
Julie Morris I'm at a 646 number
Markus Gylling: Thierry, if you can assign that to Julie<scribe> Scribe: Karen
Markus
Gylling: and registering regrets
... Short agenda for today
... As you know, we are running these focused themes with the task forces
... We don't have a new task force today because we have an urgent matter
to cover annotations
... But on this call we'll decide what task force to review next week
... We have one person who has not yet made it to our calls
... Rich, can you say a few words?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: I am CTO for Accessibility for IBM software
<Bill_Kasdorf> has Julie from BISG been introduced?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: and chair the ARIA standards effort
Markus
Gylling: Last week's minutes are published
... any objections to accepting them?
Markus
Gylling: there is work underway to propose the formation of
a working track working group
... of the open annotations community group
... we are thinking to fast track the requirements so they can be used and
referenced by the WG
... anything else, Rob, in terms of context?
Robert
Sanderson: in order to ensure all the requirements of the
IG are met
... in the WG process
... would be great to have the usec cases if not entirely finished, at
least be a lot more formalized than they are now
Markus
Gylling: To do this, the first thing to keep in mind
... is that this is the process all the task forces will go through
... Use of the wiki is in the initial stage of the Task Force work
... we expect taht they will formalize in Note documents
... It looks like annotations task force will take the next steps in this
sequence first
... but we want to clarify with the sequence first
... And hope Karen can help us
... basically I think there is the following steps
... let me throw them out here
... First is that we as an IG go over the wiki and fill in any blanks or
missing areas that we can find
... Second step is that the task force produces a first version of the
Note document
... and we abandon the wiki at that stage
... and likely use ReSpec JS to produce a Note
... at that point, it is the IG's first public draft
... and we accept comments both internally with W3C and on the mailing
list within a period of time
... let's say it's one month
... And once the comment period is done and edits are done, we are ready
to publish the Note
... i don't think it's much more complex than that
<azaroth> \me http://www.w3.org/respec/
Markus Gylling: Notes are not too high ranking in w3C space
Karen Myers: we can review process document...just the time frame may need checking
Markus
Gylling: We need to be done...
... does this sound feasible?
Robert
Sanderson: yes, that sounds good
... in terms of timing, we need to have something charterwise that can be
discussed by 1 April
... meaning that the Note should be in a good state
... according to the IG
... about one month or three weeks before the annotations
... would go three weeks to write the note
Markus
Gylling: are you ok with producing a version of the Note
now
... in a week or so?
Robert Sanderson: I can try for within a week
Markus
Gylling: we spend time today looking at the wiki about we
have and don't
... then have a one-week window for the IG to look at it further
... and then following week produce first draft version of the Note
Robert
Sanderson: my only concern with that
... is having references in the Note
... if Note lists all the use cases, that is easy
<tmichel> first draft version of the Note I guess is an editor's document ?
Robert Sanderson: but if it's tracking down more references, that could be complicated
Markus
Gylling: if everything goes well by next Monday, we should
have IG's blessing for all or a subset?
... And that is your greenlight to produce a Note
Robert Sanderson: if we can do it in that timeframe, that would be fantastic
Markus
Gylling: yes, it might take longer, but we have been
through it before
... I would be surprised to see a storm of complaints
Thierry
Michel: the first document we will produce is a first draft
Editor's document
... and once IG is ok, we'll move it to a w3C Note
... and sooner or later we can republish that Note when we want to add
changes there
Markus Gylling: right
Suzanne Taylor: there are accessibility implications for annotations
<Suzanne> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Mark_Highlighting
Suzanne
Taylor: It would be good if Gerardo, others in
accessibility task force had time to look over the annotations carefully
... with view about making annotations themselves accessible
... We are at a conference this week and would need more days next week
Markus Gylling: yes, maybe we should...
<mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Social_Reading_and_Annotations
Markus
Gylling: ask people to just navigate to this URL
... you jumped straight into what we have now
... What you referenced, Suzanne is the last use case
<gcapiel> I agree. Thanks Suzzane
Markus
Gylling: Looking at the list, Rob, to give use bearing
... from CG perspective, how complete is this
... on a scale from one to 100
Robert
Sanderson: 95
... it pretty much covers what the CG has discussed
... one or two things which are part of the current specification
... that there were use cases for but they were very specific
... cannot think of anything that made them useful in publishing domain
... A few things not in CG such as packages use cases
... and recording the state of user manipulated resources is not covered
... that is far too complicated to come out
Markus
Gylling: yes, I see a bunch that comes from discussions we
have had here and within the EPUB WG
... the packaging of annotations as well as under other
<lizadaly> argh
Markus Gylling: specififying the target audience stem from EPUB work
Robert
Sanderson: huge jump slightly
... Suzanne, did you expect that accessibility of annotations is an
accessibility use case, an annotations use case, or both
Suzanne
Taylor: I worry...most important thing
... is that actual interface be accessible
... if we keep it only in accessibility it will be in a second releasea
... I would like to see it in the annotations work if possible
Gerardo
Capiel: I totally agree
... accessibility was not thought through in first pass with [example
Hypothes.is]
... description, post production
Markus
Gylling: we got that you agree with Suzanne
... So is that an easy item for you to carry in here, Rob?
Robert
Sanderson: I am not at all versed in accessibility
concerns, but happy to work with people who are
... I could not draft a first version of that requirement
Markus
Gylling: right
... if we look at your collection right now, it is not talking about
interface properties
... talking about the data itself, not the interface
Robert Sanderson: one does touch on interface
<gcapiel> Sorry, on train. I was just saying that annotations are very applicable for post-production image description and description of other visual elements. Also, it seems that accessibility has been an afterthought with existing solutions.
Robert
Sanderson: maintaining interface style
... draw in white vs black
... place a pop-up at this point so as not to cover up useful text
... those are related to the user experience, if not related to the user
interface
Suzanne
Taylor: I would suggest that the accessibility task force
read through and add small comments
... and then we add one additional use case which describes the
recommended functionality
... or requirements
... we have an initial draft and could vet that and move over to
annotations area
Markus
Gylling: in terms of the accessibility task force review,
what date can we set for you?
... Any chance you can do this by next Monday, or is that overly
optimistic?
Gerardo Capiel: I can work on the plane
Richard
Schwerdtfeger: I would like to look at it, but have people
in Austin this week
... so could not get to it until the weekend or early next week
Suzanne Taylor: I would have trouble getting to it by the 3rd; maybe the 5th
Markus Gylling: ok, that sounds good
<scribe> ACTION: Suzanne, Gerardo and Rich to complete accessibility review by 4 February [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/01/27-dpub-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Suzanne,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
<gcapiel> There's some discussion of this topic during an Accessibility Sprint which included Hypothes.is who has been involved in the annotations work http://kefletcher.blogspot.com/2013/06/born-digital-born-accessible-sprint.html?m=1
Bill
Kasdorf: I put that on when Suzanne first commented
... there are also metadata implications for the annotations spec
... but our situation is the opposite of accessibility
... metadata should take into account the finished state
... rather than delay things
... metadata responds to use cases for implications
Robert Sanderson: What do people think about scope of metadata?
Bill Kasdorf: you are involved intimately in both
Robert Sanderson: Should metadata task force discuss annotations for metadata as well as publications, or both?
Markus Gylling: Bill?
Bill
Kasdorf: waiting for others to respond
... I think there will be blurred lines there
... publications...whether regarding annotations or basic publication
... we can responsibly address them after the annotation issues are
clarified
... we would not be driving annotations use cases, but some use cases
could arise
Markus
Gylling: ok, good
... in terms of timing
... by 5th the accessibility review is completed
... so we can target February 10
... which would be our first opportunity for IG blessing to have first
draft for review
... and review is not only for accessibility folks
... please feel free to provide your input in the next week
... Rob, anything you want to alert the IG on when we read through this?
... weak areas, potential blind spots that you have been thinkign about?
Robert
Sanderson: I don't think so
... the later use cases are weaker than the earlier ones just due to use
case fatigue
... any comments and suggestions are very welcome
Markus
Gylling: the queue is empty
... if there are not more comments on annotations, we are ready to move
onto the next agenda item
... I'm glad we have Gerardo and Suzanne here
... as the next item relates to accessibility
... and we have Rich here as well
... Rich, perhaps you can summarize
Richard
Schwerdtfeger: one of things we agreed to do is to create
some modules off of ARIA to apply additional semantics to assistive
technologies through browsers
... make structural semantics available through ARIA
... we would need to have some people from this IG part of that effort
... and coordinate with main WG and collaborate
... We would start with structural semantics
... we don't want to slow down the work others are doing
... Would be great if someone could volunteer to do the editing
... does that summarzie?
Markus Gylling: yes; what timeline?
Richard
Schwerdtfeger: Depends how fast we move and get things
implemented
... you have done most of work, you have defined semantics
... main thing is to get out to browsers
... biggest thing is getting to CR
... we're looking for 1.1 by end of next eyar
... I don't know if we can do it in that time frame, but I'm willing to
work with people to get that to happen
... I work with many assistive technology vendors
Gerardo
Capiel: Some of this also came out
... from TPAC
... when we had discussion with SVG WG
... graphs in SVG
... need for additional ARIA roles came up
... Rich and Doug Schepers know about it
... We are planning a call at EDUPUB2
Richard
Schwerdtfeger: We also agreed to form a module for graphics
... as long as that's not an issue
Gerardo Capiel: perfect
Markus
Gylling: We have Laura here from ETS. Is an assessment
module possible for 1.1?
scribe: I would have to take that back to the
working group
... were you thinking TI?
Markus Gylling: Mark Hakenen and you, Laura have been thinking
Laura
Fowler: Mark has been working with you
... and will be talking about ARIA at EDUPUB
Markus Gylling: right
Laura Fowler: I don't know how far he has gotten with that
<gcapiel> To add to minutes, I'm referring to using ARIA roles to aid SVG sonification
Laura Fowler: or how ready he would be
Markus
Gylling: we hope to clarify parts of that at EDUPUB2
... if I understand there are two modules agreed
... one for graphics and one for basic ebooks semantics
... your call for participation and editor is for both?
... or epub ones?
Richard
Schwerdtfeger: I want to meet with Doug and Gerardo at
EDUPUB 2
... I'm chairing accessibility workshop
Markus Gylling: If anyone wants to sign up for this module, make yourself heard
<Suzanne> I will volunteer to participate
Markus
Gylling: I plan to join but would love to have more people
showing up
... Rich, anything else from TF meeting last week?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: we're looking at test cases and the 2.0 timeline as well
Markus
Gylling: seeing that we have a little extra time
... One of things that's going on, is that IDPF and epub is looking for a
more native solution to express structural semantics
... as most of you know, we use the epub colon type attributes
... we are exploring options to move away from that, not name-space based,
but something more native based to browser stack
... a couple solutions
... have been suggestions
... one from Robin Berjon, editor of HTML5
Using the same approach as ITS 2.0, which is hyphen-prefixed attributes in an HTML5 extensions specification.
Markus Gylling: another option is to make the role attribute less AT centric and more generic
... Is that right Rich?
Richard
Schwerdtfeger: yes, as long as it does not break
accessibility
... services...then I don't see an issue
Markus
Gylling: this means there are two avenues to look into
... this IG is only partially involved here
... serving as a bridge to these discussions
... but sounds more like a discussion that needs to happen with HTML5
folks and the TF
... any more questions regarding PF and roles?
... great
... we'll see, Rich, how it goes with the call for participation
... we'll try perhaps to gather people to sign up for next week's call
... with a week to think about this
Richard Schwerdtfeger: that's perfect [timeline]
Markus
Gylling: final agenda item is the focus task force for next
meeting
... I wrote to two of them
... I see some in a pretty early state
... such as metadata
... Bill, Brady, what do you think?
Bill
Kasdorf: I would be happy to next week focus on metadata if
group wants to do that
... Ivan will be on call next week; hope Madi would be as well
... It did just get started up
... if we devote next week's meeting, we should avoid getting into
specifics, and focus on scope
... it's easy to get into the weeds in the metadata discussions
... what became immediately clear on wiki discussions
... is the importance of emphasizing the what rather than the how
... the mechanisms and solutions
... lots of details about metadata vocabularies
Brady
Duga: on the pagination side
... I don't remember agreeing to head this group
... I may have been nominated for it
... I am editing the wiki with behavioral adaptations
... but don't recall heading that group
Markus
Gylling: that is right
... you took action to add DOM pagination
... I am to blame for elevating you to task force lead
<brady_duga> Sorry, deadzone
<brady_duga> I dropped
Markus
Gylling: this is an important area
... even if we change the task force lead to someone else, we still need
to get going
Bill
Kasdorf: I am happy to have call focus on metadata
... we have a framework for discussion on the wiki
... but if next week is better used for DOM Pagination I am happy to defer
Markus
Gylling: I think we are good to go with metadata next week
... and Brady and I can sort things out on pagination
Brady
Duga: I will be adding some stuff to the wiki
... will be a strength to that section and I'll participate in that group
... On a side note
... adding something to wiki, we don't have reading system authors there
Markus
Gylling: that is still open-ended
... if you find yourself in corner, feel free to add it
Brady Duga: just add it and it appears?
Markus
Gylling: yes
... I think we are settled and done for the day?
... Any other business?
... super
... please recall your review of the annotations collections warmly
welcome
... Suzanne, Rich and Gerardo will do a dedicated review from an
accessibility perspective
Richard
Schwerdtfeger: Are there any other aspects of annotation
being included?
... I saw a mark
... are you referencing mark element in HTML5?
Markus
Gylling: Maybe you are not aware of the open annotation CG
... you mentioned at the PF call
<azaroth> http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/
<mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Social_Reading_and_Annotations
Markus
Gylling: Rob Sanderson from this group is co-chair of that
... and is working with W3C staff to propose a rec track version of open
annotations
... and epub also working on integrating
... you may want to read in on that
... good opportunity for an inverted long desk
Robert Sanderson: if there is anything I can do to help, shoot me an email; happy to do what I can
Markus
Gylling: any other questions?
... thank you for today
... thank you, Karen for scribing
... meeting adjourned
<azaroth> richardschwerdtfeger: (handle)42@gmail.com