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<trackbot> Date: 20 November 2013
<janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
<janina> scribe: jason
<MichaelC> scribe: jasonjgw
Andy: has written an abstract for his indie-ui presentation in March. He offers to circulate it to interested participants in the working group.
<Ryladog> AH: I would like Madeleine Rothberg to talk about user N&P that have changed in A11Y Metadata
<Ryladog> Rich: That is a good idea
Andy suggests inviting Madeleine Rothberg to a teleconference to discuss use cases from Access for All 3 and those which have changed in the schema.org metadata initiative.
<Ryladog> Rich: Did you walk through the new metadata
<Ryladog> JS: Yes
<Ryladog> AH: It is around the AccessMode controls
Andy notes the issues associated with access mode, and how these relate to priorities for User Contexts (including the question of what should be introduced in version 1.0).
<Ryladog> JS: I am happy to extend the invitation but it will be complicated during the holidays - is there a time crunch to do that this year?
Janina notes the need to balance this effort with other work, namely Events, and that this discussion may be profitably deferred to next year given that there are only two meetings remaining this year.
<Ryladog> Rich: This does not impact the Events spec, unless we are going to have some movement with that spec this year
Rich concurs with these priorities.
<Ryladog> Rich: User context is going to need to be where the metadata is used
<Ryladog> MC: I thought we were going to get the Requirements out BEFORE anything else
<Ryladog> JS: Yes
Michael notes that if we are to publish a Last Call for Events early next year, we need a first public working draft of Requirements now.
Andy notes that the emphasis on events in the short term fits well with his needs regarding User Context work.
<Ryladog> JS: I wouldn't limit it to just mobile, including is better
There is discussion of Andy's abstract, with minor adjustments recommended.
<Ryladog> AH: If it turns into a paper I would welcome help
<Ryladog> AH: Are we including native applications?
<Ryladog> JW: I wouldn't see how we can get this in now
Andy will submit in several days, taking into account any comments received.
Any further comments may be sent to Andy (preferably soon).
He will provide the URI once the final abstract appears on the conference Web site.
<Ryladog> JS: Two weeks from today so Dec 4th and the 18th and then we break for 3 weeks and resume the 8th of January
Next two meetings: 4 December, then 18 December followed by 8 January.
<Ryladog> JW: I may miss it because of my flight
<MichaelC> scribe: Ryladog
JC: I have the Mon, Tues and Wed off and will work on it then
JS: Anticipated Last Call date?
JC: for Events
JS: We not be that far from ready for Events after Requirements
JC: I have a backlog that I went
to get in to the Events spec before ewe publish last call
... Lets plan to have another Public Working Draft in the early
spring (maybe January) as long as it does not conflict ARIA
MC: It seems when we were going through the Reqs at TPAC - do you think we will be able to get all of those items into the Events spec?
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about getting in all the edits related to requirements and to ask about testing
JC: Will send the minutees/notes
of the Req discussion. We have to get to testing before we go
to last call? What is the plan and do we have time
... I think it can all be tested via scripts - that is the good
thing about the API
MC: We'll have to create test cases
JC: So the last call target would become maybe March?
JS: At least I think
JC: I think testing will go sort of smoothly
RS: Chrome and Safari are still considered to be the same browser
JC: Not any more
RS: Is that true Janina?
JS: The two weblits may be too close to be considered differrent enough
RS: I just want to make sure that is the case for sure so that we do not get caught with being incorrect about this
JC: I think in that case it may have be too close, but, with Indie-UI it should be clearer unless they copy the branch.
RS: Do we know if someone from the Google team is really going to implement this. Have we talked to Dominic? Do we want tp send him an email
JC: Maybe in January we can do a
call for Implementations at that point when we have the last
call
... If we send that now we my be confusing folks and I have
stuff I want to get it
JS: Might be best to wait for the new year
JW: Suggestion of architectural review - what will the next step be - or do any to encourage specific feedback
JC: If you think that is useful to have before we publish the next working draft?
JS: Do we need to take this to TAG or is the Working Group enough? We do not want to go over there heads
<jcraig> ACTION: jcraig to ask WebApps about the DOMTokenList and reflected attributes uiactions/@ui-actions; Ted mentioned there was some pushback against DOMTokenList. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-indie-ui-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Ask webapps about the domtokenlist and reflected attributes uiactions/@ui-actions; ted mentioned there was some pushback against domtokenlist. [on James Craig - due 2013-11-27].
<jcraig> action-75?
<trackbot> action-75 -- James Craig to Ask webapps about the domtokenlist and reflected attributes uiactions/@ui-actions; ted mentioned there was some pushback against domtokenlist. -- due 2013-11-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/75
<jcraig> action-75?
<trackbot> action-75 -- James Craig to Ask WebApps about the DOMTokenList and reflected attributes uiactions/@ui-actions; Ted mentioned there was some pushback against DOMTokenList. -- due 2013-11-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/75
JS: this came up in the ARIA call on Monday
<jcraig> "Require an event notification and indicator that an element can respond to a bubble help request"
JS: We were talking about ARIA has pop-up - we were talking about how that mist be discover-able. T
RS: The tool tip and ARIA described-by
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to ask if "bubble help" means "contextual menu"?
JC: What kind of help
RS: It is more information about
the object - related contextual - like more information
... there is the discoverability and the fact that something is
actionable
JC: If you hover over a movie and
waiting a few seconds - like in Netflics
... Is this bubble help - a dialog is more interactive
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask if this is IndieUI or WebApps? and to ask if this relates to ISSUE-3
JW: Distinct from a secondary action on an object - a kind of help request confined to the object that the event applies to
<MichaelC> ¨Provide a mechanism to access context menus and perhaps other secondary actions (might be future requirement). (issue-3)¨
JW: Do we want it tp be seperate?
MC: This sounds a lot like secondary actions which we discussed at F2F and goes with Issue 3
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to say showing a contextual menu (secondary action) and displaying a tooltip are different things. If we have an event, we need to clearly define the difference.
JC: All three of us ask the same
question at the same time
... Bubble help I believe is a tooltip - that is not
interactive than it functionally behaves as a tooltip, if it is
interactive it is more like a dialog
MC: Issue 3 applies here
JS: Yes, that does sound like it applies
JC: It sounds like there are two issues - both the secondary action that is covered in issue 3 - but then also like a show tooltip
JW: if it is interactive - it
looks like a secondary action. If it is not interactive then
you want an event to play it
... They both seem to be secondary interactions - so it looks
like Issue 3 covers both - maybe we need to amend the Issue
JC: It almost seems like is there ever going to be a case where we have primary, secondary and tooltip together. We want to build a strategy around this
RS: For AT we want to have an API mapping - something like this - I am trying to figure out if we need a mapping ststement
JC: Are you saying you want a platform specific action
JS: Why only AT?
RS: Well it is not necessarily
JS: lets not forget the longdesc or described-at - but it is never autodispalyed
RS: But we do not want to tell the browser manufacturers how to do that
JS; It could be very simpke
RS: The UA would enable all the device interaction
JS: Tiemline question
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to say that's an implementation detail for AT
JS: How can the team help you Micheal to get the Requirements out?
JW: API for registering secondary actions the UA would have to signal it appropriately for each OS
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about Webapps
JS: I do not think we need to solve eveything about this today
<MichaelC> ack
MC: I am not fully sure I understand whether this is a broader scope that for IndieUI?
JC: Discover-ability issue is out
of scope
... As long as there is an API fr each of these things as then
it is up to the AT and UA
RS: You addressed that at the F2F
with the memdiaQueries
... I just need a note that says 'hey this fuction is here'
JC: I think that is covered by preference changed events
RS: Would that work for AT?
JC: I think that will come out of the examples. We might be confusing the vocabulary
<jcraig> Notes that "Web Notifications" are something else entirely
MC: What need to be done is just get the Reqs into a W3 doc - but we did not match the Req to Use Cases - it is a task that needs to be done
JC: Let us try to begin to end at 10 of in the future
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