IRC log of webmob on 2013-10-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:52:48 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #webmob
16:52:48 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-webmob-irc
16:52:50 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs 306
16:52:50 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #webmob
16:52:52 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be WEBMOB
16:52:52 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see UW_WEBMOB()1:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
16:52:53 [trackbot]: Meeting: Web and Mobile Interest Group Teleconference
16:52:53 [trackbot]: Date: 30 October 2013
16:53:09 [dom]: RRSAgent, make logs public
16:53:16 [dom]: Chair: Marcos
16:59:29 [Jo_]: zakim, code please?
16:59:29 [Zakim]: the conference code is 932662 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jo_
16:59:44 [Zakim]: UW_WEBMOB()1:00PM has now started
16:59:57 [Zakim]: +??P16
17:00:08 [Zakim]: + +44.207.356.aaaa
17:00:10 [schuki]: 932662
17:00:11 [Jo_]: zakim, ??P16 is me
17:00:11 [Zakim]: +Jo_; got it
17:00:12 [schuki]: Jo_: ^
17:01:16 [dom]: Zakim, aaaa is schuki
17:01:16 [Zakim]: +schuki; got it
17:01:17 [Zakim]: +??P22
17:01:23 [dom]: Zakim, ??P22 is me
17:01:23 [Zakim]: +dom; got it
17:02:05 [Zakim]: + +1.408.368.aabb
17:02:07 [girlie_mac]: girlie_mac has joined #webmob
17:02:28 [Zakim]: +dka
17:02:36 [dom]: Zakim, aabb is probably girlie_mac
17:02:36 [Zakim]: +girlie_mac?; got it
17:02:38 [Jo_]: zakim, where is 408
17:02:38 [Zakim]: Jo_, I do not see a party named 'where'. If you meant to ask a question you need to add '?'
17:02:52 [dom]: Zakim, area code 408?
17:02:52 [Zakim]: I don't understand your question, dom.
17:02:56 [dom]: Zakim, what is area code 408?
17:02:56 [Zakim]: I don't understand your question, dom.
17:03:02 [dka]: dka has joined #webmob
17:03:03 [girlie_mac]: it's tomomi calling from 408-
17:03:17 [dka]: zakim, who is here?
17:03:17 [Zakim]: On the phone I see schuki, Jo_, dom, girlie_mac?, dka
17:03:18 [Zakim]: On IRC I see dka, girlie_mac, Zakim, RRSAgent, Jo_, dom, marcosc, jo, paul___irish, trackbot, schuki
17:03:50 [dom]: Zakim, where is 408?
17:03:50 [Zakim]: North American dialing code 1.408 is California
17:04:21 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
17:04:40 [dom]: Zakim, [IPcaller] is marcosc
17:04:40 [Zakim]: +marcosc; got it
17:04:46 [Zakim]: + +1.908.559.aacc
17:05:09 [dom]: Zakim, aacc is dan_sun
17:05:09 [Zakim]: +dan_sun; got it
17:05:43 [dan]: dan has joined #webmob
17:06:07 [dom]: ScribeNic: schuki
17:06:10 [dom]: ScribeNick: schuki
17:06:29 [dom]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2013Oct/0084.html
17:06:43 [dom]: dom has changed the topic to: WebMob call Oct 30 Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2013Oct/0084.html
17:08:09 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/Topics High priority topics
17:08:11 [schuki]: TOPIC: Things the group should focus on
17:08:25 [schuki]: marcosc: we have asked people to send the items that they wish to focus on
17:08:54 [schuki]: ... the list we got back came from new members and some stuff from coremob, bridge the gap etc.
17:09:11 [schuki]: ... we have a list, it may not be complete, but is a good general list of items to focus on
17:09:48 [dom]: q+ to suggest a few approaches
17:09:51 [schuki]: ... we want to try to focus on few items on this list
17:10:02 [schuki]: ... so we can make good use of the time we have
17:10:14 [schuki]: dom: i would like to hear from people on the call what they think
17:10:30 [schuki]: ... I see things on the as being logical next steps
17:10:41 [schuki]: ... we should identify a leader for each item and a proposed action plan
17:10:47 [schuki]: ... for each item
17:11:20 [schuki]: ... another thing that would be useful is identifying whatever mobile needs gets attention throughout the w3c
17:11:27 [dka]: q+
17:11:34 [schuki]: ... so it would be helpful for us to identify this
17:12:06 [schuki]: ... another great topic is the web security topic
17:12:21 [dom]: ack me
17:12:21 [Zakim]: dom, you wanted to suggest a few approaches
17:13:05 [schuki]: dom: let me give an example of how management has been involved in groups in the past
17:13:24 [schuki]: ... jeff jaffe was involved in pushing html5 to becoming a standard
17:13:30 [Bin_Hu]: Bin_Hu has joined #webmob
17:13:43 [schuki]: ... if we think we need to use the W3C staff to drive a specification then I have been tasked with this
17:14:00 [schuki]: ... it could be getting more staff to be involved in outreach, testing, etc.
17:14:14 [Zakim]: +Bin_Hu
17:14:26 [schuki]: ... so please let me know
17:14:35 [Jo_]: q+ to observe that we appear to be short of survey results, quantification in general
17:14:36 [dom]: ack dka
17:15:04 [schuki]: dka: we have been having a conversation in the mailing list
17:15:13 [schuki]: ... i posted something related to APIs
17:15:19 [Zakim]: -Jo_
17:15:24 [schuki]: ... i made a comment that we would have some research to share
17:15:40 [schuki]: ... marcosc asked if we could share this
17:15:50 [Zakim]: +??P16
17:15:59 [schuki]: ... the research looked at the gap between html and native apis
17:16:06 [Jo_]: zakim ??p16 is me
17:16:06 [schuki]: ... i don't see apis on this list
17:16:15 [schuki]: ... so i see this as a gap in our understanding
17:16:23 [Jo_]: zakim, ??p16 is me
17:16:23 [Zakim]: +Jo_; got it
17:17:44 [schuki]: dom: what is currently in the list is what was happening at the time
17:17:54 [schuki]: ... we hoped people would be free to add addtional topics
17:18:05 [Jo_]: q+ also to observe that missing features is a broader topic than APIs
17:18:49 [schuki]: ... on whether apis should be on the list: I think the responses on the mailing list was it wasn't entirely clear how it was applicable to the web
17:19:43 [Jo_]: ack me
17:19:43 [Zakim]: Jo_, you wanted to observe that we appear to be short of survey results, quantification in general and to observe that missing features is a broader topic than APIs
17:19:52 [marcosc]: q+
17:19:54 [schuki]: dka: I would like to add it to the list, and perhaps we might be able to add a workstream to this
17:19:57 [schuki]: q+
17:20:25 [schuki]: Jo_: i believe there is an important topic around apis and the gap with native
17:20:36 [schuki]: ... from my perspective web apis will always be somewhat behind
17:20:49 [schuki]: ... as native doesn't need standardisation
17:21:00 [schuki]: ... i would like to see native-comparable apis
17:21:17 [schuki]: ... and also need to see what needs to be delevoped for the future outside of this
17:21:26 [Ig_Ibert_Bittencourt]: Ig_Ibert_Bittencourt has joined #webmob
17:21:29 [dom]: +1 on unavoidable lag between native and Web; the question is what APIs would feel the most important piece of the gap
17:22:09 [schuki]: dka: i believe there are certain key APIs that devs want to use that are stopping them from using the web
17:22:46 [schuki]: Jo_: we need some survey and quantification here
17:22:54 [schuki]: ... this can help us push forward
17:23:49 [schuki]: marcosc: we need to take a look at a list and find some consensus
17:24:12 [schuki]: ... we should have a debate on the list
17:24:28 [schuki]: ... there was some issues with the research so we should come back tho this
17:24:33 [schuki]: s/tho/to
17:24:33 [Jo_]: I want to be clear that filling the gaps in APIs needs to be based on research and preferably not opinionation of activists, since most activity does not occur amongst activists
17:24:42 [dom]: q+ to suggest this would make a good part of building the action plan
17:25:40 [schuki]: dom: i think this all feeds into buildng an action plan
17:25:48 [marcosc]: ack me
17:25:53 [Jo_]: q+ also to note that he did not complete original point which is to note that APIs though important are only part of the question
17:26:00 [dom]: ack me
17:26:00 [Zakim]: dom, you wanted to suggest this would make a good part of building the action plan
17:26:00 [schuki]: ... our first step is to determine what apis
17:26:16 [dom]: ack schuki
17:26:36 [schuki]: ack me
17:26:41 [schuki]: ack schuki
17:27:12 [schuki]: schuki: gap with native is the same as api work I think
17:28:45 [schuki]: Jo_: I haven;t seen a response from others
17:28:48 [dan]: q+
17:29:40 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/mid/D938895B3EFF4FE29261B3DD12EB1D60@w3.org Tobie on methodology to determine gaps
17:29:45 [dom]: ack Jo
17:29:45 [Zakim]: Jo_, you wanted to note that he did not complete original point which is to note that APIs though important are only part of the question
17:30:20 [schuki]: Jo_: we shouldn't ignore offline
17:30:41 [schuki]: ... should we lay out what we think is 'effective'
17:30:42 [dom]: q+ to suggest assigning a lead on each topic (starting with offline :)
17:31:06 [Zakim]: -Jo_
17:31:20 [marcosc]: Jo_: we lost you
17:31:26 [schuki]: TOPIC: Offline
17:32:09 [schuki]: marcosc: we should try to identify a leader for offline
17:33:08 [schuki]: dom: lets quickly describe what we would expect from people leading the dicussion?
17:33:26 [Zakim]: +??P1
17:33:44 [Jo_]: zakim, ??P1 is me
17:33:44 [Zakim]: +Jo_; got it
17:34:04 [schuki]: ... my prespective is [1] a status update [2] find the main players [3] working with these people to identify tasks which are important [4] identify people to help
17:34:18 [dom]: ack dan_sun
17:34:21 [dom]: ack dan
17:34:42 [schuki]: dan: is this part of closing the gap?
17:34:47 [schuki]: marcosc: that is in scope too
17:35:00 [schuki]: ... handling background events
17:36:35 [dom]: ACTION: marcos to propose action plan for "offline"
17:36:36 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-60 - Propose action plan for "offline" [on Marcos Caceres - due 2013-11-06].
17:36:39 [schuki]: dom: marcos let's add you to be the leader here
17:37:07 [dom]: ACTION-60?
17:37:07 [trackbot]: ACTION-60 -- Marcos Caceres to Propose action plan for "offline" -- due 2013-11-06 -- OPEN
17:37:07 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Mobile/IG/track/actions/60
17:37:30 [Jo_]: q+ to note that the chairs can't be the only people offering to "work"
17:37:47 [dom]: ACTION-60?
17:37:47 [trackbot]: ACTION-60 -- Marcos Caceres to Propose action plan for "offline" -- due 2013-11-06 -- OPEN
17:37:47 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Mobile/IG/track/actions/60
17:37:55 [dom]: ACTION-60?
17:37:55 [trackbot]: ACTION-60 -- Natasha Rooney to Propose action plan for "offline" -- due 2013-11-06 -- OPEN
17:37:55 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Mobile/IG/track/actions/60
17:38:59 [Jo_]: ack d
17:38:59 [Zakim]: dom, you wanted to suggest assigning a lead on each topic (starting with offline :)
17:39:59 [dom]: ack Jo
17:39:59 [Zakim]: Jo_, you wanted to note that the chairs can't be the only people offering to "work"
17:40:00 [Jo_]: ack me
17:41:14 [schuki]: dom, Jo_: we need help from all the members to produce the work!
17:41:25 [schuki]: q+
17:41:36 [dom]: q+ dka
17:41:46 [dom]: ack dka
17:42:02 [schuki]: dka: I would like us to help
17:42:16 [schuki]: ... I am trying to find additional people from telefonica to help
17:42:40 [schuki]: ... and +1 to adding effort to this
17:43:01 [schuki]: marcosc: does anyone feel strongly about effort there?
17:43:24 [schuki]: dom: I think storage quota is also important
17:43:46 [schuki]: schuki: does it need it's own topic?
17:43:47 [Jo_]: q?
17:43:55 [schuki]: dom: not sure if we should or not
17:45:11 [schuki]: ... we should leave that connection to be established / varified later
17:45:32 [Jo_]: q+ to return to the question of assessing "suer" demand in a systematic way
17:45:39 [Jo_]: s/suer/user
17:45:40 [dom]: ack schuki
17:48:28 [Zakim]: -Jo_
17:48:41 [schuki]: schuki: it could be a separate topic, but it will cross over to offline a lot
17:48:51 [Zakim]: +??P1
17:49:10 [schuki]: marcosc: i think it still could be a separate topic with how many other implications it has
17:49:19 [Jo_]: zakim, ??p1 is me
17:49:19 [Zakim]: +Jo_; got it
17:49:45 [schuki]: marcosc: any volunteers?
17:49:47 [dka]: +1 to it being an important topic
17:50:01 [schuki]: dom: people may want to volunteer off the call
17:50:43 [dom]: ACTION: Dom to ask for a volunteer on storage quota management
17:50:43 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-61 - Ask for a volunteer on storage quota management [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-11-06].
17:50:50 [Jo_]: q?
17:50:57 [schuki]: ... so let's ask the list, otherwise i will take it
17:50:58 [dom]: ack Jo
17:50:58 [Zakim]: Jo_, you wanted to return to the question of assessing "suer" demand in a systematic way
17:52:06 [dom]: q+ on surveys
17:52:21 [schuki]: Jo_: I am really interested in seeing whether w3c cn do some research into why developers aren't getting involved in the web on mobile
17:52:34 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/articles#Developer_surveys Some links to existing surveys
17:52:45 [schuki]: marcosc: the homescreen bookmarking case is important for mozilla
17:53:01 [schuki]: ... for a browser vendors / implmeneters point of view this is important
17:53:10 [Jo_]: thanks to dom for that, how can we use those results? how can we improve them?
17:54:32 [Zakim]: -Jo_
17:54:51 [schuki]: dom: what do we mean by users? end users or developers
17:55:10 [schuki]: ... i was thinking about doing a survey on what developers want
17:55:30 [schuki]: ... but surveys are difficult and some orgs (vision mobile) have done one
17:55:53 [schuki]: ... if we want to do a survey on our own then we may be able to get the resources
17:56:01 [schuki]: ... but there must be a good reason
17:56:34 [schuki]: ... and we need someone to take the lead here
17:56:45 [schuki]: marcosc: we may need help from a sociologist
17:56:51 [schuki]: dom: and statisticians etc.
17:57:20 [dom]: Jo, would you have any interest in exploring the opportunity for a W3C survey in this space?
17:57:28 [schuki]: q+
17:57:35 [dom]: ack me
17:57:35 [Zakim]: dom, you wanted to comment on surveys
17:57:38 [dom]: Topic: TPAC
17:57:52 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/TPAC_Face-to-Face TPAC F2F
17:57:55 [schuki]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/TPAC_Face-to-Face
17:59:11 [dom]: ACTION: Natasha to update TPAC agenda based on Oct 30 call discussions
17:59:12 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-62 - Update tpac agenda based on oct 30 call discussions [on Natasha Rooney - due 2013-11-06].
17:59:53 [dka]: I will be there - I can help.
18:02:15 [schuki]: schuki: please send me any suggestions for the TPAC agenda
18:02:47 [schuki]: marcosc: thank-you all!
18:02:50 [Zakim]: -dka
18:02:53 [Zakim]: -dom
18:02:55 [Zakim]: -schuki
18:02:56 [Zakim]: -Bin_Hu
18:02:57 [Zakim]: -girlie_mac?
18:02:58 [Zakim]: -marcosc
18:03:38 [dom]: Zakim, who's on the call?
18:03:38 [Zakim]: On the phone I see dan_sun
18:03:42 [dom]: Zakim, drop dan_sun
18:03:42 [Zakim]: dan_sun is being disconnected
18:03:44 [Zakim]: UW_WEBMOB()1:00PM has ended
18:03:44 [Zakim]: Attendees were +44.207.356.aaaa, Jo_, schuki, dom, +1.408.368.aabb, dka, girlie_mac?, marcosc, +1.908.559.aacc, dan_sun, Bin_Hu
18:03:46 [dom]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:03:46 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-webmob-minutes.html dom
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