14:59:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:59:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-html-a11y-irc
14:59:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:59:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 59 minutes ago
14:59:31 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:31 <trackbot> Date: 25 July 2013
14:59:33 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
14:59:33 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
14:59:33 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:59:36 <janina> agenda+ Longdesc Status Update [See Below]
14:59:38 <janina> agenda+ TF Work Statement CFC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0044.html
14:59:41 <janina> agenda+ HTML5 testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0053.html
14:59:43 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:59:44 <janina> agenda+ Canvas 2D Testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0052.html
14:59:47 <janina> agenda+ Alt Edits Completed [See Below]
14:59:50 <janina> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media;
14:59:51 <Zakim> +??P15
14:59:52 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
14:59:55 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:59:58 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:00:00 <janina>  zakim, ??P15 is me
15:00:00 <Zakim> +janina; got it
15:00:12 <janina> agenda?
15:00:29 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
15:00:29 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:00:35 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:00:35 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:00:35 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:00:38 <janina> agenda+ Longdesc Status Update [See Below]
15:00:39 <Zakim> +Mark_Sadecki
15:00:41 <janina> agenda+ TF Work Statement CFC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0044.html
15:00:44 <janina> agenda+ HTML5 testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0053.html
15:00:47 <janina> agenda+ Canvas 2D Testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0052.html
15:00:50 <janina> agenda+ Alt Edits Completed [See Below]
15:00:52 <janina> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media;
15:00:55 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:00:57 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:01:00 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:01:07 <MarkS> zakim, who is here
15:01:07 <Zakim> MarkS, you need to end that query with '?'
15:01:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:14 <MarkS> zakim, who is here?
15:01:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller]
15:01:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, MarkS, janina, MichaelC, trackbot, Zakim
15:01:26 <janina>  agenda?
15:01:34 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
15:01:34 <MarkS> zakim, IP is Leonie
15:01:34 <Zakim> sorry, MarkS, I do not recognize a party named 'IP'
15:01:43 <MarkS> zakim, [IP is Leonie
15:01:43 <Zakim> +Leonie; got it
15:01:49 <Zakim> +hober
15:03:16 <janina> zakim, agenda order 5 4
15:03:16 <Zakim> ok, janina
15:03:26 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:03:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:03:39 <paulc> zakim, what is the code?
15:03:39 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
15:03:43 <MarkS> scribe: MarkS
15:03:45 <Zakim> +Judy
15:03:50 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
15:03:50 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:03:57 <Zakim> +Rich
15:04:00 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:04:06 <janina> zakim, close item 1
15:04:06 <Zakim> agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
15:04:08 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:04:08 <Zakim> 5. Canvas 2D Testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0052.html [from janina]
15:04:23 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:04:33 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
15:04:33 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Canvas 2D Testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0052.html" taken up [from janina]
15:04:39 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has me
15:04:39 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
15:04:51 <MarkS> zakim, take up item 2
15:04:51 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Longdesc Status Update" taken up [from See Below via janina]
15:05:38 <MarkS> JS: flurry of email following LCWD and some discussion.  MathML was brought into the discussion.  Would like to have James here, but he will be busy with Elijah.
15:06:28 <MarkS> zakim, agenda?
15:06:28 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
15:06:30 <Zakim> 5. Canvas 2D Testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0052.html [from janina]
15:06:30 <Zakim> 4. HTML5 testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0053.html [from janina]
15:06:30 <Zakim> 2. Longdesc Status Update [from See Below via janina]
15:06:30 <Zakim> 3. TF Work Statement CFC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0044.html [from janina]
15:06:31 <Zakim> 6. Alt Edits Completed [from See Below via janina]
15:06:32 <Zakim> 7. Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media; [from janina]
15:06:32 <Zakim> 8. Other Business [from janina]
15:06:32 <Zakim> 9. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from janina]
15:06:32 <Zakim> 10. be done [from janina]
15:06:38 <MarkS> zakim, take up item 3
15:06:38 <Zakim> agendum 3. "TF Work Statement CFC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0044.html" taken up [from janina]
15:07:13 <MarkS> JS: I have asked chaals to make a word change, which he obliged to.  No other comments.
15:07:33 <paulc> Will the ask to the HTML WG occur this week?
15:08:07 <MarkS> …we should now seek approval from the HTML WG and PFWG per Plan 2014
15:08:23 <MarkS> PC: when will the WG see it?
15:08:29 <MarkS> JS: probably next week.
15:08:41 <janina> zakim, next item
15:08:41 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Canvas 2D Testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0052.html" taken up [from janina]
15:09:23 <MarkS> JS: touch base on Canvas 2D.
15:10:16 <MarkS> …we should prioritize this evaluation and provide feedback in clusters rather than one response at the end of the CfC
15:10:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0062.html
15:10:32 <MarkS> PC: please let us know if there are no comments on particular sections as well.
15:11:07 <MarkS> RS: I met with Dominc yesterday.  Never really specified what a focus ring is supposed to look like.
15:11:28 <MarkS> …use system focus indicator.  in windows, dotted ring
15:12:22 <MarkS> …author can override default indicator.
15:12:39 <MarkS> …this wouldn't force us to go back to CR
15:12:51 <MarkS> …any objection to go back to HTML to put this note in?
15:12:59 <MarkS> PC: file a bug?
15:13:04 <MarkS> RS: yes.
15:13:23 <MarkS> PC: mention that you have one implementation
15:14:33 <MarkS> RS: Dominic said the code went in yesterday
15:15:02 <MarkS> JS: what are our concerns with testing canvas 2d?  is Path in jeopardy?
15:15:23 <MarkS> RS: focus is not in jeopardy. You can tab though fallback content on at least 3 browsers.
15:16:03 <MarkS> …showing the visible location on the canvas drawing surface, one implementation in Blink.  Hopefully IE and Mozilla next.
15:16:25 <MarkS> TO: I think James is a good person to ask RE apple representative.
15:16:34 <MarkS> RS: Path and hit testing
15:17:08 <MarkS> …hit testing is not going to get into 5.0.  Identified as at risk, implementors want to do something different with Shape
15:17:56 <MarkS> …Path, synchronize canvas closer to SVG.  I think Path is at risk.
15:18:01 <MarkS> PC: yes, and hit regions
15:18:20 <MarkS> RS: If we don't have Path, then we may not have all the support we need.
15:18:25 <paulc> Path Object and Hit Regions are at risk: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/CR-2dcontext-20121217/
15:19:21 <MarkS> JB: looking for clarification on how canvas can be accessible without path or hit regions.
15:19:47 <MarkS> RS: want to tell a magnifier where object is.  Mags usually follow focus.  focusring allows us to do that.
15:20:17 <MarkS> …the functionality that gets lost is the ability to zoom to arbitrary information on the drawing surface.
15:20:33 <MarkS> …everything on a web page has a location, mags can zoom to it.
15:20:46 <MarkS> …not everything in canvas has a location.
15:21:11 <MarkS> …what we can do, is put things in the tab order to control focus.  not the best, but meets bare minimum.
15:21:52 <MarkS> …would tell authors to indicate tab index
15:23:24 <MarkS> JB: sounds as though the hit testing approach is not popular, but there is one that is more palatable? would it fill gap in the same approach?
15:23:53 <MarkS> RS: Developers have been want to use different object, Shape vs Path.  Bind that to hit testing.  Doesn't exist yet.
15:24:04 <MarkS> JB: would this work on multiple platforms?
15:24:33 <MarkS> RS: this is being discussed by Mozilla and WebKit and Blink.  I don't know about MS
15:24:43 <Zakim> -hober
15:24:47 <Zakim> +hober
15:24:58 <MarkS> …this would allow us to not have to put everything in the tabbing sequence and allow us to zoom to important objects that are represented in fallback content.
15:25:50 <MarkS> …this may not have to wait until 5.1.  there may be earlier implementations.
15:26:09 <MarkS> PC: if this is something that is well spec'ed, you could do an extension spec.
15:27:47 <MarkS> JB: Support the extension spec idea.  lets capture this work and move it forward.
15:28:30 <MarkS> RS: i haven't seen shape object yet.  I can talk to Rik Cabanier who was talking to Hixie for writing it up.
15:29:02 <MarkS> JS: I think I hear you saying that we should support Shape over Path
15:29:20 <MarkS> RS: I think we should support whatever will give us the location of objects.
15:29:40 <MarkS> …let me follow up with dbolter on where they are.
15:30:32 <MarkS> JB: if we are trying to insure that this graphics format is accessible, we can't support both approaches.
15:30:57 <MarkS> …lets be thoughtful about the timing on this.
15:31:18 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
15:31:26 <MarkS> RS: in the focusring drawing, two of the api's use the path object.  they would drop off without path.
15:31:39 <MarkS> JS: so we would probably wan to keep path then...
15:32:02 <MarkS> RS: I think an extension spec for shape is great.
15:32:47 <MarkS> …i know that fallback content works well. I have a team that has demonstrated that now.
15:33:08 <MarkS> PC: does the TF have a schedule to review these two docs given that July is almost behind us.
15:34:37 <MarkS> JS: we need Rich to look through the canvas 2d spec to spot any accessibility snafus that may be in there.
15:34:52 <MarkS> MS: i am willing to help you out with that.
15:35:36 <JF> Q+
15:36:07 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:36:15 <MarkS> RS: are blink and webkit the same at this point?
15:36:26 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:37:40 <MarkS> PC: [clarifies the definition of unique implementations]
15:37:44 <paulc> 'Each implementation must be developed by a different party and cannot share, reuse, or derive from code used by another qualifying implementation. Sections of code that have no bearing on the implementation of this specification are exempt from this requirement."
15:38:40 <paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/public-permissive-exit-criteria.html
15:39:10 <MarkS> TO: there is at least one case in CSS where an Adobe developer has been working on code in both webkit and gecko and we have determined that this are unique.
15:39:42 <MarkS> s/are unique/are not unique
15:39:50 <MarkS> ack j
15:40:43 <MarkS> JF: google has announced that they will be supporting Longdesc.  No indication from Safari.  Evidence that these browsers are forking.
15:41:44 <MarkS> PC: same code, one implementation.
15:42:03 <MarkS> …would like to have a regular agenda item on Canvas and HTML testing.
15:42:16 <janina> zakim, next item
15:42:16 <Zakim> agendum 4. "HTML5 testing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Jul/0053.html" taken up [from janina]
15:42:48 <janina> scribe: janina
15:43:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:43:16 <janina> ms: Has been working with spec editors on plan to test using issues we found
15:43:46 <janina> ms: Also identified several items we reported as not requiring anything more than filing bugs
15:44:05 <janina> ms: Will report to the TF
15:44:18 <janina> ms: Expect this next week
15:44:57 <janina> zakim, next item
15:44:57 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Longdesc Status Update" taken up [from See Below]
15:45:11 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:45:24 <MarkS> zakim, next item
15:45:24 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, MarkS
15:45:33 <MarkS> zakim, close item 2
15:45:33 <Zakim> agendum 2, Longdesc Status Update, closed
15:45:34 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:45:34 <Zakim> 6. Alt Edits Completed [from See Below via janina]
15:45:47 <MarkS> zakim, next item
15:45:47 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Alt Edits Completed" taken up [from See Below]
15:46:02 <janina> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/index.cgi?GoAheadAndLogIn=1
15:47:40 <MarkS> JS: steveF has sent a note to the list that all changes from the standalone document have been ported to 5.1 and 5.0 heartbeat.
15:47:59 <MarkS> …need everyone to take a really close look to verify that this is what we want in the spec
15:48:12 <MarkS> …SteveF wants us to file bugs if you have any issues.
15:48:35 <MarkS> …I think we need to move on this and close it.
15:49:03 <JF> Q+
15:49:04 <MarkS> …there is one section, near the beginning RE: a logo, but the alt text does not mention that.
15:49:06 <MarkS> q+
15:49:38 <janina> q?
15:49:40 <MarkS> ack j
15:50:25 <MarkS> JF: we have a standard or convention that we preface the description with the type followed by a colon.  more of a convention.
15:51:01 <janina> q?
15:51:06 <MarkS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Jul/0058.html
15:54:55 <Zakim> -Leonie
15:55:54 <MarkS> JS: next step, lets return to this topic next week to see how we should handle this.
15:56:56 <MarkS> JF: do we have a deadline on this, or can it wait until Steve's return.
15:57:05 <MarkS> JS: I think 2-3 weeks won't be a problem.
15:58:29 <MarkS> zakim, agenda?
15:58:29 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:58:30 <Zakim> 6. Alt Edits Completed [from See Below via janina]
15:58:30 <Zakim> 7. Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Media; [from janina]
15:58:30 <Zakim> 8. Other Business [from janina]
15:58:30 <Zakim> 9. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from janina]
15:58:30 <Zakim> 10. be done [from janina]
15:58:41 <MarkS> zakim, close item 6
15:58:41 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MarkS
15:59:01 <Zakim> -Rich
15:59:10 <Zakim> -hober
15:59:14 <Zakim> -janina
15:59:17 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
15:59:19 <Zakim> -Judy
15:59:19 <Zakim> -Mark_Sadecki
15:59:19 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
15:59:19 <Zakim> Attendees were janina, Mark_Sadecki, [IPcaller], John_Foliot, Leonie, hober, Judy, Rich, paulc, [Microsoft]
16:11:40 <hober> hober has joined #html-a11y
16:58:32 <janina> janina has changed the topic to: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference; Thursday 1 August at 15:00Z for 60 minutes