See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 10 July 2013
Agenda topics: TPAC, conference call times, Resource Timing question, preflight JS injection, and spotlight
<plh> http://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/#GroupSchedule2
<plh> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/
Alois: Can we have more information on TPAC and when the group should meet?
Plh: After Oct 18, the registration cost increases. I don't believe there is a deadline on registration.
<plh> we're meeting on Thursday and Friday
Alois: We should come up with an agenda for the working group.
<plh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Jul/0001.html
Dan: There were details from the HTML WG mailing list on getting Visas from China. That will be useful details for this groups as well.
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/?login#wbsq15
Jatinder: As for agenda, we should come up more details as we get closer. But two things we should include are make progress on our current chartered specs and also speak with other groups.
Plh: Seeing that Beacon, Resource
Priorities, prefetch/prerender are interesting to the HTML WG,
and we may even put it into the HTML spec, we should setup some
time to meet with the HTML working group.
... Interestingly, I have heard people talk about taking
dependencies on Beacon API, and interest in pursuing Element
Visibility.
Jatinder: Let's take an action to find an alternative time slot that works for all of our attendees. In particular, we need an alternative slot that works for Australia and New Zealand.
Alois: The idea we discussed was from navigation error logging where the server was down. The idea is that the HTTP would point to a JS that would run in any cases when the page is down. This way we will get real time availablility.
Dan: What about security concerns of injecting JavaScript?
Alois: Analytics already inject JavaScript, so this isn't new. For HTTPS pages, you already can't change the content.
Jatinder: Alois why don't you put together a spec proposal? We can use that document to share this concept around to see if others feel that this may be reasonable from a security point of view.
Dan: I have sent information on
the Spotlight. I'm hoping that the working group and others can
look into making a public database of performance database of
websites on different browsers. Make this data available to
everyone. This will be similar to HTTP archive, but it'll be
from a performance point of view. The goal here would be that
we'll put the onus on site owners to improve their performance.
We would also want to provide guidance to h[CUT]
... their performance. E.g., if you look at the waterfall data
of the top 50 sites, you'll see that there is a lot of
interesting performance data. With this data, we can push these
folks to really improve their real world performnance.
... I want this group to get behind this and W3C really has the
credibility to make this happen.
... I have spoken to many companies, and they have really found
this interesting, including from Google, Amazon, and others.
This was also on the list of topics that Philippe covered with
the AC. Philippe any comments from them?
<plh> --> http://www.w3.org/2013/Talks/0610-performance/ my slides from the AC meeting
Plh: The AC reps didn't seem very interested in this.
Jatinder: The IE team has spent
the last six year develop one of the most sophisticated perf
labs, so we have some insight here. For example, the sites here
will change daily. There will be very large variability on a
daily basis as web pages change their content. So I'm not sure
how much data can be gathered. At the same time, the top five
news sites or travel sites though they do similar things, have
very different performance characteristics[CUT]
... would start to compare these sites as apples to apples,
even though they are quite different. Another aspect that I
want to understand is the machines used for testing. For
example, in the IE Perf Lab we have main pool of machines that
we pulled from the Dell Factory floor - simply changing a hard
drive in one machine will change its performance charactertics.
We really need to understand the details here, especially if
this is public and us[CUT]
Dan: I think we're okay with variability, because if some Ad takes 20seconds longer, we would want to show that. I don't think variability is the big concern here.
Alois: What about logins? There are a lot of pages that will require logging in. I wonder who will be paying these costs.
Jatinder: What level of data would we show? It would be useful to help users see causes and correlations.
Dan: We would definitely want to
provide as much data as possible, as well as possibly the HAR
file.
... You can think of this as YSlow scores or something similar
to WebPerfTest.org.
Jatinder: Please send some more information so we can review this to understand the challenges
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: JatinderMann Inferring Scribes: JatinderMann Default Present: +1.949.754.aaaa, +1.626.379.aabb, [Microsoft], [IPcaller], Plh Present: +1.949.754.aaaa +1.626.379.aabb [Microsoft] [IPcaller] Plh RobDickenson Alois JatinderMann DanAustin WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 10 Jul 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webperf-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]