IRC log of tagmem on 2013-06-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/27-tagmem-irc
17:00:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:00:05 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be TAG
17:00:05 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started
17:00:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
17:00:06 [trackbot]
Date: 27 June 2013
17:00:17 [dka]
Chair: Peter and Dan
17:00:20 [dka]
Scribe: Yves
17:00:36 [dka]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG/Planning/2013-06-27-TC
17:01:20 [Zakim]
+plinss
17:04:02 [slightlyoff]
this passcode IS valid, zakim
17:04:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.997.aabb
17:04:49 [slightlyoff]
finally
17:04:57 [slightlyoff]
dka: it always takes like 3 times
17:05:11 [dka]
xakim, aabb is slightlyoff
17:05:34 [Zakim]
+Yves
17:05:56 [dka]
zakim, aabb is slightlyoff
17:05:56 [Zakim]
+slightlyoff; got it
17:07:55 [Zakim]
+??P7
17:08:04 [Yves]
waiting for other participants to join
17:08:34 [wycats_]
Regrets I am on an airplane
17:09:06 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:09:19 [slightlyoff]
I worry that we're losing momentum = (
17:10:09 [Yves]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG/Planning/2013-06-27-TC
17:10:17 [Yves]
Topic: approval of minutes
17:10:22 [ht]
I linked the minutes from the wiki and homepages
17:10:24 [Yves]
dka: did people look at the minutes?
17:11:00 [Yves]
... could have some more link to different materials, but looks of to me
17:11:30 [dka]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/29-agenda.html
17:12:21 [slightlyoff]
SGTM
17:13:11 [ht]
s/looks of/looks ok/
17:13:34 [Yves]
Topic: agenda planning
17:13:56 [Yves]
dka: we will plan call agenda by putting then in the wiki
17:14:35 [Yves]
there is a new scribe page: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG/Planning/scribe-rota
17:14:36 [slightlyoff]
looks good, thanks for putting that rotation together
17:14:59 [Yves]
dka: of course, comments welcomed
17:15:40 [dka]
q?
17:15:57 [Yves]
Topic: moving to github
17:16:06 [Yves]
plinss: looks good so far
17:16:19 [dka]
https://github.com/w3ctag/promises-spec-text
17:16:25 [Yves]
please remember to do readma files
17:16:29 [Yves]
^dma^dme
17:18:41 [slightlyoff]
what's the URL of the blog?
17:18:55 [Yves]
http://www.w3.org/blog/TAG/
17:19:35 [Yves]
yves: the TAG blog is open to all TAG members, and not restricted to "the voice of the TAG" (unless we decide to)
17:20:05 [slightlyoff]
and how does one get access?
17:20:08 [Yves]
dka: we also have the keys of @w3ctag
17:20:50 [slightlyoff]
Yves: how do I log in?
17:21:28 [slightlyoff]
I don't see a login at http://www.w3.org/blog/TAG/wp-admin...is it someplace else?
17:21:45 [slightlyoff]
nevermind, found it
17:21:49 [slightlyoff]
https://www.w3.org/blog/TAG/wp-login.php
17:22:06 [Yves]
was about to send you this URL :)
17:22:12 [slightlyoff]
exciting that we have it!
17:22:57 [Yves]
Topic: status of the elections
17:23:05 [Yves]
dka: we have two candidates running
17:23:21 [Yves]
you can look at their statements
17:23:44 [Yves]
election open until july 16
17:24:07 [Yves]
marcos: should we encourage them to post an extended statement?
17:24:25 [Yves]
dka: see https://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-tag-nominations.html
17:24:31 [dka]
http://chaals.ya.ru/replies.xml?item_no=9
17:24:50 [dka]
http://twirl-team.ya.ru/replies.xml?item_no=1036
17:29:06 [Yves]
plinss: we are working to get the TAG home page redesigned with some help
17:29:47 [slightlyoff]
e.g.: http://vimeo.com/67567648
17:30:23 [Yves]
plinss: we need it to be modern enough, but the main goal is to know what we want there.
17:31:04 [Yves]
plinss: there is the style design and information design, we need to work on both
17:33:29 [slightlyoff]
plinss: that sounds good to me, outlining the IA first
17:34:05 [slightlyoff]
don't care?
17:36:08 [Yves]
Topic: extensible web manifesto
17:36:37 [Yves]
dka: how it impacts what we do?
17:37:01 [Yves]
slightlyoff: it is in the same line with what we did in London
17:37:28 [Yves]
how we are reorganize so that we can track specs to organize reviews
17:37:33 [Yves]
for APIs
17:37:50 [ht]
q+ to argue for a non-exclusive view of our scope
17:38:19 [Yves]
dka: we have actions to reach out to different groups
17:39:37 [Yves]
yves: for WebApps, see http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus#API_Specifications to get the list and status of publications
17:40:35 [Yves]
slightlyoff: is there a way to better coordinate spec review?
17:40:51 [Yves]
dka: we can use the irc channel as way to keep in touch
17:40:59 [ht]
-1 to IRC -- I'm off- and on-line too often
17:41:59 [slightlyoff]
SGTM++
17:42:01 [Yves]
marcos: would like to use this as issues in github
17:42:12 [slightlyoff]
ht: are you using irccloud? it's ace
17:43:13 [Yves]
slightlyoff: we need to have a better view of all the groups that are working on APIs
17:43:29 [marcosc]
http://www.w3.org/TR/
17:44:02 [ht]
q- ht
17:44:46 [slightlyoff]
marcosc: right, but I don't know how to share or link to any of the views of that
17:44:50 [Yves]
marcos: the TR page have a list of all specs, nto perfect but at least you have the whole list
17:45:08 [marcosc]
slightlyoff: off, yeah... I know... I was trying to find that too :(
17:45:22 [ht]
q+ to argue for a non-exclusive view of our scope
17:45:44 [Yves]
dka: we don't need to look at everything done at W3C
17:45:48 [ht]
zakim, unmute me
17:45:48 [Zakim]
ht should no longer be muted
17:45:53 [ht]
ack ht
17:45:53 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to argue for a non-exclusive view of our scope
17:45:57 [dka]
q?
17:46:04 [slightlyoff]
dka: FWIW, I didn't ask the TAG to spend any time on workshops
17:49:55 [slightlyoff]
one last time; I don't htink this is a TAG item, I didn't bring it up, and I'd like to put it down = )
17:51:17 [slightlyoff]
action item: dka and slightlyoff to eat, near each other, soon
17:51:17 [trackbot]
Error finding 'item'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/users>.
17:53:12 [dka]
Yves: referencing Robin's email - is there a way to have a better way to state that specs for example are partially stable and partially experimental...
17:54:10 [dka]
Dan: should we make a recommendation?
17:54:35 [dka]
Yves: I was thinking - do people in the Tag have opinions / experience in this area and if so should we make a recommendation back?
17:55:13 [dka]
Marcos: This is only a big deal on the w3c side. My recommendation is to keep the current model and allow specs to proceed down recommendation track so long as referenced specs remain stable...
17:55:20 [ht]
q+ to point to the QA document about this
17:55:32 [dka]
Marcos: could allow sections to be marked for stability.
17:55:53 [dka]
Yves: the way you can make assessments of stability of parts of the specifications could be done by marking it in some way...
17:56:01 [dka]
ack ht
17:56:01 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to point to the QA document about this
17:56:31 [dka]
Henry: The problem is that there's so much inertia in this space. What was just suggested required a change to the process. W3C process is extremely resistant to change.
17:56:52 [dka]
… it was absorb lots of TAG energy to get the AB to take this up.
17:57:07 [dka]
… not convinced that the situation we're in is broken enough to warrant taking that effort on.
17:57:30 [dka]
… reluctant to take this on.
17:58:37 [dka]
[discussion of the director overriding process]
17:59:15 [dka]
Marcos: It's kind of broken but if someone wants to move a spec forward it will move forward...
17:59:41 [dka]
Yves: one way to work around the issue is to spliit a spec into small chunks which are linked - and this is a mess for implementers.
17:59:53 [dka]
… modularity might be a better way to work around that.
17:59:55 [ht]
This doc: http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/#reference has a lot of good analysis/recommendations
18:00:54 [ht]
We had an action to try to come up with a better story, which stalled two years ago: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/303
18:01:12 [slightlyoff]
I don't have an opinon
18:03:24 [slightlyoff]
+1
18:03:28 [dka]
Topic: AWWW 2nd Edition
18:03:41 [Yves]
ACTION: dka to send an email to the AB telling them that we are ready to give input on modularization and references if they work on that topic
18:03:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-820 - Send an email to the AB telling them that we are ready to give input on modularization and references if they work on that topic [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2013-07-04].
18:04:18 [dka]
https://github.com/w3ctag/webarch
18:04:33 [Yves]
ht: worked on a new version of webarch using github
18:05:03 [ht]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2013Jun/0023.html
18:05:04 [Yves]
worked on a draft new abstract
18:05:11 [marcosc]
+q
18:05:51 [Yves]
ht: there was a bipolar reaction to it, enthusiasm and anger/hate (scribe paraphrasing a bit)
18:06:49 [Yves]
the document was not served by some terminology inherited from rfc2616
18:07:27 [ht]
s/the document/the original AWWW document/
18:08:03 [slightlyoff]
marcosc: is the source for this checked into this repo?
18:08:06 [Yves]
ht: at the f2f, we decided we _might_ take it on
18:08:11 [slightlyoff]
marcosc: or is index.html the source?
18:08:23 [marcosc]
slightlyoff: index is the source
18:08:25 [ht]
s/the original/TBL and I and some other people think the original/
18:08:32 [slightlyoff]
marcosc: thanks
18:08:55 [Yves]
ht: we put it on github so that people can edit it and do pull requests on it
18:09:11 [slightlyoff]
ht: that sounds good
18:10:18 [ht]
I agree with Marcos that with hindsight it was a mistake to ask for feedback so soon
18:11:18 [Yves]
marcos: "editing the bible" scares people, we need other ways to make progress
18:11:33 [slightlyoff]
to clarify, they only START private
18:11:42 [slightlyoff]
and go public once things are "more solid"
18:11:56 [Yves]
discussion about private repos and StO
18:11:56 [slightlyoff]
but this is a much different product -- people think they already understand it
18:13:08 [slightlyoff]
speaking of social pressure....what's next for API review? bugs in the repo marcos sets up?
18:14:43 [marcosc]
https://github.com/w3ctag/extending-html-responsibly/blob/master/RICG-recs/ricg.md
18:15:00 [slightlyoff]
that's a good point...wycats_ and I need to do that this week
18:15:08 [dka]
Topic: RICG recommendation
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18:15:41 [slightlyoff]
I agree with these
18:15:46 [slightlyoff]
+1
18:15:59 [slightlyoff]
nice work, marcosc
18:16:52 [Yves]
ht: speaking from somebody outside the community, it would be helpful to include definitions, or examples (eg: for polyfills)
18:17:49 [Yves]
marcos: there are also prollyfills
18:18:14 [slightlyoff]
wycats_: are you there?
18:18:14 [dka]
Topic: TC39 invitation to TPAC (muffins)
18:19:23 [dka]
PROPOSED RESOLVED: Marcos to send https://github.com/w3ctag/extending-html-responsibly/blob/master/RICG-recs/ricg.md to RICG as feedback.
18:19:48 [ht]
+1
18:19:59 [dka]
RESOLUTION: Marcos to send https://github.com/w3ctag/extending-html-responsibly/blob/master/RICG-recs/ricg.md to RICG as feedback.
18:20:50 [Yves]
dka: there is no pb to have TC39 members invited at TPAC
18:22:50 [slightlyoff]
I don't know either, but i feel like we should handle this urgently
18:22:53 [Zakim]
+plinss.a
18:22:58 [ht]
q+ to suggest we should ask TC39!
18:23:14 [slightlyoff]
ht: it's easy...es-discuss is open
18:23:22 [dka]
q?
18:23:24 [dka]
ack ht
18:23:24 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to suggest we should ask TC39!
18:23:58 [Yves]
ht: we should ask TC39
18:24:54 [Yves]
slightlyoff: I don't know what to do, asking TC39 is good but giving then too many choices might be an issue
18:25:21 [slightlyoff]
ht: I like that a lot
18:25:45 [slightlyoff]
ht: that's good framing
18:25:46 [dka]
Option 1: A hosted meeting at TPAC either Monday-Tusday or Thursday-Friday if TPAC with understanding that others can join as guests and you can join others as guests...
18:25:50 [Yves]
ht: difference is being like a regular WG or less constrained like the TAG
18:25:54 [slightlyoff]
can we iterate on this quickly on the mailing list?
18:25:57 [dka]
Option: 2: a less constrained invitation as guests of the TAG?
18:26:06 [slightlyoff]
I'd like to make suer wycats_ has input
18:26:28 [slightlyoff]
dka: yes, I think so
18:27:00 [slightlyoff]
there's also an internal TC39 reflector that I can post to
18:27:10 [slightlyoff]
but I think public-script-coord is a good way to start
18:27:39 [slightlyoff]
yes, I can
18:27:56 [Yves]
ACTION: dka to talk to Jeff about TC39 to TPAC
18:27:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-821 - Talk to Jeff about TC39 to TPAC [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2013-07-04].
18:28:18 [Yves]
ACTION: slightlyoff to send email to public-script-coord about TC39 and TPAC
18:28:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-822 - Send email to public-script-coord about TC39 and TPAC [on Alex Russell - due 2013-07-04].
18:28:55 [Yves]
dka: don't hesitate to bring the chairs feedback if we miss something
18:29:23 [Yves]
next call will be in two weeks: july 11th
18:29:33 [Yves]
ADJOURNED
18:29:40 [Zakim]
-marcos
18:29:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/27-tagmem-minutes.html Yves
18:29:41 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +44.771.520.aaaa, dka, plinss, +1.415.997.aabb, Yves, slightlyoff, ht, [IPcaller], marcos
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