<scribe> scribe: Detlev

Survey - More ARIA techniques for 02 May 2013. *Question Number 2 ONLY* - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130502tfaria2/

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130502tfaria2/

Technique put together originally by Josh

Hasn't been touched since April

James: Suggests to make soe changes now
... roe alert has an implicit aria-live of 'assertive' on it

James (editing on the fly)

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130502tfaria2/

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130502tfaria2/results#xrange

James: asking for suggestions for phrasing (second technique in survey)

Adam / Detlev: Unclear what "(on an allowed HTML element used in HTML forms) " refers to

Michael: refers to elements where that role is allowed

James: couldn"t we generally refer to a document (tech note) allowed aria roles properties in HTML rather than out it in particular techniques?

Loretta: concerned that it my not materialize

James: does that qualification add any value?

Michael: on some ARIA techniques it may be important to point out that range of ARIA roles/attributes that can be used is limited

James (dropping parentheses form description and similar refernce in test procedure)

James: clarify the implicit aria-assertive?

(Editing ongoing)

<jamesn> This technique uses the ARIA role attribute with the value of “alert” in order to provide a suggestion to the user for correction on form input errors. Aria roles of alert have an implicit aria-live value of assertive which informs assistive technologies to monitor an applicable node and convey changes.

James (adding reference to SC 3.3.1 Error Identification:

Paul: would like a simpler example that doesn't require JavaScript

JAmes / Loretta: agree - question whehter Paul would pick up that technique

Paul: agrees
... talking about a different technique (aria-live)
... pointing out different rendering with JAWS in iE8

James: not really an issue

Paul: Using role alert plus aria-assertive may improve browser coverage

<pauljadam> http://pauljadam.com/demos/aria-alert-validation.html

Paul: mentioning James Craig's response to Paul's technique
... user agent notes can cover UA and AT support

James: examples will need to be hosted somewhere - Michael, jQuery OK?

Michael: yes, in principle(?)

Paul: different ways, also inline validation

James: Asks Paul to take up technique and put in link to Paul's example - changing source as well

Paul: use examples for both techniques?

James: people were against merging the techniues

Lorentta: same example may be applicable for different techniques

James: Title of techniques were changed last week - may be the two techniques SHOULD be combined

Paul: A technique may show the different live regions types, polite, assertive etc..

James: A technique may take specific use cases for live regions

Paul: His aim was to take the use case of error msgs and how to use either aria liver regions or role alert

James: Paul, want to combine them?

Paul: sure

James: can be undone if problems appear

James (editing)

James: Recommends Paul should take a look at Jason's detailed comments

Pau: Shall we look at test procedure for role =alert?

<jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_Live_Regions_or_role%3Dalert_to_Identify_Errors

Loretta: Test seems to rely on particular AT behavior

Paul: whether live region is automaticlly read depends on AT in use

Loretta: Test procedure should tell evaluator whether the technique has been correctly implemented

Paul: like " container has the right role, error message is inserted"

James (doing the test procedure on the fly)

<jamesn> # Check that there is an ARIA role attribute with value of “alert” or a live region with aria-live="assertive"

<jamesn> # Trigger the error

<jamesn> # Check that the error is inserted into the container with role="alert" or the live region with aria-live="assertive"

Paul: Should AT list browser version and SR make/version?

Yes

Paul: First step may not be needed could be insterted into the DOM

Adam: Language for test procedure may not be appropriate, things like "Make sure" ..

James: You have to declare role of container then insert it in the DOM

<jamesn> <span>error</span>

Adam: Why does it have to be inserted? Can it not be more generic?

James: The order in which you insert stuff is important affects end result

Loretta: Test procedures can describe necessary conditions for JavaScript

Adam: It could be a display:none nd then be shown at the occassion of the error occuring

Paul: in his example the contsiner is already there and then text is inserted

James: You can"t make changes of roles after pageload

Loretta: Some of this discussion should go into the description!

Paul: expalins that he can put that into the technique

Loretta: Good to have a variety of examples that show the subtleties as well

<pauljadam> http://blog.paciellogroup.com/2012/06/html5-accessibility-chops-aria-rolealert-browser-support/

Paul: referring to the differences in support of the different methods 1-4 in Steve's page

Are we done soon?(...)

Paul: WIll take what has been discussed and compile that into one technique
... OK to share techniques on Twitter

James: Yes it"S all public, no concerns - clearly it's all in development, but that's fine

Loretta: It would also be great to get input from people

James: Three Failures from Detlev can go into survey for next week

Loretta: referring to third question on the survey (changed title)

James: Unclear what was concluded

Adam: Concludion was to explore whether aria-hidden could also be used

Sorry, not Adam that was Paul

James: Need investigation whether aria-hidden also work

Paul Will HTML5 hidden attriburte work as well?

James: Looking just at ARIA at the moment

Loretta: OK to look at HTML5 as well

James: takes up putting together some test cases for aria-hidden
... Agenda will go out on Tuesday - three or four things is plenty

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Detlev
Inferring ScribeNick: Detlev
Default Present: James_Nurthen, +49.403.17.aaaa, Cooper, [Google], Detlev_Fischer, Paul_Adam, Marc_Johlic, Jon_Gunderson, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Adam_Solomon, Robin_Tuttle
Present: James_Nurthen +49.403.17.aaaa Cooper [Google] Detlev_Fischer Paul_Adam Marc_Johlic Jon_Gunderson Katie_Haritos-Shea Adam_Solomon Robin_Tuttle
Got date from IRC log name: 30 May 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/05/30-html-techs-tf-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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