IRC log of tagmem on 2013-05-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:58:09 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
16:58:09 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/16-tagmem-irc
16:58:11 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
16:58:13 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be TAG
16:58:13 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
16:58:14 [trackbot]: Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
16:58:14 [trackbot]: Date: 16 May 2013
16:58:38 [ht]: Chair: Peter Linss
16:58:57 [ht]: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/16-agenda
16:59:05 [ht]: ht has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/16-agenda
16:59:17 [Zakim]: TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
16:59:24 [Zakim]: +plinss
16:59:28 [ht]: Yehuda, can you scribe, per Noah's request?
17:00:31 [Zakim]: +??P1
17:00:40 [ht]: zakim, ? is me
17:00:40 [Zakim]: +ht; got it
17:01:02 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
17:01:18 [marcosc_]: Zakim, IPcaller is me
17:01:18 [Zakim]: +marcosc_; got it
17:01:41 [plinss]: zakim, who is noisy?
17:01:47 [JeniT]: JeniT has joined #tagmem
17:01:48 [marcosc_]: Zakim, who is noise?
17:01:48 [Zakim]: I don't understand your question, marcosc_.
17:01:50 [annevk]: Zakim, passcode?
17:01:50 [Zakim]: the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), annevk
17:01:52 [Zakim]: plinss, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (3%), ht (90%)
17:02:06 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
17:02:09 [noah]: noah has joined #tagmem
17:02:15 [annevk]: Zakim, [IP is me
17:02:15 [Zakim]: +annevk; got it
17:02:31 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
17:02:35 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller.a]
17:02:48 [noah]: zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
17:02:48 [Zakim]: +noah; got it
17:02:49 [Zakim]: -ht
17:03:15 [Zakim]: +??P1
17:03:37 [noah]: zakim, mute me
17:03:37 [Zakim]: noah should now be muted
17:03:51 [noah]: zakim, unmute me
17:03:51 [Zakim]: noah should no longer be muted
17:03:54 [slightlyoff]: "this passcode is not valid"
17:03:59 [ht]: 0tag
17:04:04 [Zakim]: + +1.415.997.aaaa
17:04:09 [ht]: s/0tag//
17:04:11 [slightlyoff]: ht: that's never the issue
17:04:21 [slightlyoff]: ht: it always takes me 3 tries
17:04:26 [slightlyoff]: ht: with the right code
17:04:31 [noah]: agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/16-agenda
17:04:32 [slightlyoff]: anyway, I'm in = )
17:04:57 [slightlyoff]: how do I tell Zakim that 415... is me?
17:05:13 [slightlyoff]: thanks, JeniT!
17:05:33 [ht]: Scribe: Henry S. Thompson
17:05:37 [ht]: ScribeNick: ht
17:05:42 [ht]: Topic: Admin
17:06:28 [slightlyoff]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/18-minutes.html
17:06:50 [ht]: NM: We will need a while to review those
17:06:57 [noah]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-minutes.html
17:07:30 [ht]: RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-minutes.html approved as a record of the meeting of 2 May 2013
17:08:24 [ht]: NM: Marcos has decided he has to resign from the TAG, as being the second of two employees at Mozilla
17:08:37 [ht]: NM: There will be a special election to replace him
17:08:57 [ht]: NM: I encourage people to work to encourage good candidates to be nominated
17:09:04 [slightlyoff]: do we know when the election will be?
17:09:13 [ht]: PL: And encourage people to stand
17:09:26 [ht]: NM: We should hear from Ian Jacobs shortly about the timetable
17:09:27 [slightlyoff]: thanks.
17:09:40 [ht]: NM: It will pbly take several month
17:10:23 [annevk]: marcosc_: this world is not big enough for the both of us
17:10:42 [ht]: NM: Do we have an off-cycle call next week? I suggest we pend that decision, but only have a call if someone raises agenda items
17:10:51 [ht]: NM: Discuss github now, or wait for f2f?
17:11:07 [ht]: PL: MC, will you be at F2F?
17:11:10 [ht]: MC: yes
17:11:19 [ht]: PL: Introduce topic?
17:11:34 [ht]: MC: We have a space, we can use it. . .
17:11:38 [JeniT]: I have been using https://github.com/w3ctag to put up some presentations intended for F2F
17:11:51 [ht]: NM: What org. owns this service?
17:12:22 [ht]: MC: Git itself is distributed, so we replicate everything at W3C
17:12:33 [ht]: NM: So we would have W3C URIs?
17:12:56 [ht]: MC: Yes. Already doing this for SysApps WG
17:13:24 [slightlyoff]: I'm a big fan of this, BTW
17:13:27 [ht]: NM: So we can rely on W3C for persistence, and stick with the usual date-space disciplines
17:13:40 [ht]: PL: Proxying?
17:14:03 [ht]: MC: DNS magic, Dave Raggett set it up. . .
17:14:28 [ht]: NM: Now unclear -- if Github got bought, would we be at risk?
17:14:47 [ht]: MC: SysTeam is looking at bullet-proofing this
17:15:43 [ht]: PL: We don't yet have a git host at W3C, but we do have a mercurial host there, and then surface that through github
17:16:19 [ht]: NM: Does that actually give e.g. MC what he wants? I don't think he could push via git?
17:16:31 [JeniT]: +1 for collaboration & pull requests
17:16:52 [ht]: PL: The goal of exposing via git is to get into a social space
17:16:59 [ht]: ... and be visible there
17:17:37 [ht]: NM: Sounds like they all have the necessary functionality
17:17:44 [JeniT]: +1 for having a presence in github
17:17:48 [JeniT]: +1 for doing work on github
17:17:50 [slightlyoff]: I think we should do this
17:17:51 [slightlyoff]: +1
17:17:54 [ht]: q+ to prefer mercurial for my own work
17:18:25 [ht]: MC: Let's postpone the decision to the f2f, where we will have more folk
17:18:34 [ht]: NM: Trial this on one or two projects?
17:18:37 [ht]: q- ht
17:19:15 [ht]: Topic: F2F Admin and logistics
17:20:04 [ht]: AvK: Breakfast and Lunch are laid on, no dinner at the venue
17:20:13 [slightlyoff]: is there a thing we can link to to help spread the word?
17:20:26 [annevk]: not yet I think
17:20:32 [ht]: NM: There is a dinner on the Wed. night, details coming from DA
17:20:39 [slightlyoff]: is there going to be a signup? how will this work?
17:20:52 [ht]: NM: And the dev. meetup, at Mozilla, again details to come
17:20:56 [annevk]: slightlyoff: I'd suggest asking dan
17:21:11 [ht]: Topic: F2F agenda
17:21:19 [Zakim]: -noah
17:21:24 [slightlyoff]: oooook. Would love for this to be widely broadcast so we get lots of developers
17:21:50 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
17:21:54 [ht]: PL: 1st day will be ---Camp approach, to collect agenda topics and longer-term TAG work items
17:21:59 [noah]: zakim, [IPCaller] is me
17:21:59 [Zakim]: +noah; got it
17:22:20 [ht]: PL: It would be good to have some things to read going in
17:22:38 [ht]: ... but we're looking to the membership to provide topics
17:22:44 [ht]: q+ to mention HTTPbis
17:22:46 [annevk]: slightlyoff: I think the idea is to broadcast through London Web Standards, but I recommend reaching out to Dan
17:22:50 [JeniT]: +1 for camp approach
17:22:55 [ht]: +1
17:23:04 [marcosc_]: +1
17:23:05 [slightlyoff]: +1
17:23:08 [ht]: ack ht
17:23:09 [Zakim]: ht, you wanted to mention HTTPbis
17:23:36 [slightlyoff]: +1, would love to hear about this
17:23:40 [noah]: ht: httpbis is going into last call. I've been doing close reading and would like to go over with group
17:23:52 [noah]: PL: Fine by me, reading?
17:24:01 [noah]: HT: Will try to get you notes, but not sure yet
17:24:09 [JeniT]: q+
17:24:42 [ht]: JT: Slides in preparation for ??? and distributed Web Architecture
17:24:55 [ht]: ... So there won't be prior reading
17:25:10 [Zakim]: -JeniT
17:25:25 [JeniT]: s/???/capability URLs/
17:25:51 [Zakim]: +??P8
17:25:52 [noah]: +1 to capability URLs. Would love to see slides early so we can get some email discussion ahead of F2F
17:25:59 [ht]: I might like to (re-)introduce persistence
17:26:15 [ht]: I have a keynote to give on the topic at the end of june.. . .
17:26:30 [noah]: (Newcomers should know that I'm famously skeptical of the wisdom of capability URIs, but that's put me in what appears to be a vanishingly small minority of TAG members)
17:26:42 [JeniT]: noah, I'll send round links to slides
17:26:57 [noah]: Thank you!
17:27:26 [ht]: JT: Alex's stuff? Is there more to come on that?
17:27:46 [noah]: Suggest at some point we look through the several ACTIONS relating to things that people promised/hoped to prepare for the F2F
17:28:14 [ht]: AR: I have a number of meetings intervening, but we should discuss idiomatic API design, as well as a hit list of APIs for review
17:28:30 [ht]: ... We should find a way to work on that together
17:28:53 [ht]: ... YK and MC were talking about particular APIs
17:29:17 [noah]: ACTION-784?
17:29:17 [trackbot]: ACTION-784 -- Alex Russell to with help from Yehuda to frame F2F discussion of layering -- due 2013-03-04 -- OPEN
17:29:17 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/784
17:29:24 [ht]: MC: I think we should have that discussion, I'm concerned that we don't lose sight of the declarative/idiomatic tradeoff
17:29:59 [ht]: NM: Idiomatic APIs is not layering? Or is it?
17:30:44 [ht]: AR: We covered a lot at the last meeting on the general stuff, so now we get to the details, which _is_ idiomatic APIs
17:30:55 [annevk]: (Is the stuff I mentioned about apps on the agenda? It's not really clear to me what has been recorded and what has not.)
17:31:17 [ht]: NM: So we got the general stuff, but I've missed the connection to APIs
17:31:47 [ht]: AR: Yes, we need some stuff in the middle, I should try to supply that
17:32:02 [ht]: NM: I would like to hear what our goals our -- what would success be
17:32:12 [ht]: ... not now, but before we go much further
17:32:29 [slightlyoff]: agre
17:32:31 [slightlyoff]: agree
17:32:43 [noah]: tnx
17:33:09 [noah]: Anyway, if new chairs want to continue using the ACTIONs tracker to keep track of what's up, we might want to returne ACTION=784
17:33:31 [ht]: Present: Anne van Kestern, Henry S. Thompson, Jeni Tennison, Marcos Caceres, Noah Mendelsohn, Peter Lins
17:33:43 [ht]: PL: So, AR, can you get us anything before the F2F?
17:33:50 [JeniT]: http://w3ctag.github.io/presentations/reveal/capability-urls.html#/
17:33:51 [ht]: AR: Yes, I'll try to get email out soon
17:34:18 [noah]: ACTION-563?
17:34:18 [trackbot]: ACTION-563 -- Noah Mendelsohn to arrange for periodic TAG key issues reports to Jeff per June 2011 F2F -- due 2013-05-18 -- OPEN
17:34:18 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/563
17:34:50 [ht]: NM: We have a standing obligation to report to JJ about what's coming that we think he should know about
17:35:16 [ht]: NM: For example, certificate authority vulnerabilities
17:35:41 [ht]: NM: We can of course say we don't have anything
17:35:45 [noah]: ACTION-749?
17:35:45 [trackbot]: ACTION-749 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from HT and JT to draft the TAG's response to the ISSUE-57 change proposal process initiated on 29 February 2012, based on http://www.w3.org/wiki/TagIssue57Proposal27/Background and F2F minutes of 8 October 2012. -- due 2012-11-13 -- OPEN
17:35:46 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/749
17:36:48 [ht]: JT: I'm waiting on URLs in Data publication before taking that forward
17:36:50 [noah]: ACTION-749?
17:36:50 [trackbot]: ACTION-749 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from HT and JT to draft the TAG's response to the ISSUE-57 change proposal process initiated on 29 February 2012, based on http://www.w3.org/wiki/TagIssue57Proposal27/Background and F2F minutes of 8 October 2012. -- due 2013-07-01 -- OPEN
17:36:51 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/749
17:36:58 [ht]: NM: So we'll bump the due date
17:37:13 [ht]: s/we'll bump/I've bumped/
17:37:34 [ht]: PL: Nothing more?
17:37:40 [noah]: Jeni, I should have checked for this agenda. You have two pending review actions. Should we discuss them if we run out of agenda today?
17:37:46 [noah]: They are:
17:37:49 [noah]: ACTION-752?
17:37:49 [trackbot]: ACTION-752 -- Jeni Tennison to update URIs in data primer based on discussion at Tuesday F2F -- due 2012-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:37:49 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/752
17:37:50 [noah]: and
17:37:53 [noah]: ACTION-790?
17:37:53 [trackbot]: ACTION-790 -- Jeni Tennison to do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR -- due 2013-04-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:37:53 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/790
17:37:56 [slightlyoff]: we might have skipped it, but I wanted to say thanks to noah for getting the iCal feed set up
17:37:58 [JeniT]: both are awaiting publication
17:38:03 [JeniT]: I have sent to Yves
17:38:09 [noah]: You're welcome, but Peter did almost all the work.
17:38:25 [noah]: Indeed, Peter is running the server, so bug him if it breaks.
17:38:38 [slightlyoff]: thanks plinss!
17:38:46 [slightlyoff]: plinss: is there any chance we can socialize this with other WGs?
17:39:00 [noah]: close ACTION-752
17:39:00 [trackbot]: Closed ACTION-752 Update URIs in data primer based on discussion at Tuesday F2F.
17:39:09 [noah]: close ACTION-790
17:39:09 [trackbot]: Closed ACTION-790 Do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR.
17:39:18 [slightlyoff]: JeniT: LGTM on the fragid draft
17:39:47 [ht]: Topic: iCal feed
17:40:07 [ht]: AR: Can anyone besides PL add entries?
17:41:03 [ht]: PL: It's write-only for chairs at the moment
17:41:12 [ht]: AR: If we could merge other WGs in would be helpful, in terms of planning etc.
17:41:24 [ht]: PL: Just get them to ask for a login
17:41:42 [ht]: PL: If this expands, we may need to look at moving it to W3C as such
17:41:59 [ht]: NM: It is your server, PL?
17:42:09 [ht]: PL: Under my control, paid for by HP [for CSS]
17:42:45 [annevk]: Come on people. It's just a calendar thingie. ;-)
17:42:55 [ht]: PL: We set it up to experiment with stuff which needed to be outside w3.org for CSS
17:43:08 [ht]: ... It's available
17:44:03 [ht]: AvK: Is there a preliminary agenda for the F2F available?
17:44:35 [ht]: AvK: I mentioned something last week, not sure I know how to find out if it got noted
17:45:13 [ht]: NM: DA and PL have in mind to use ---Camp approach, starting with seeds from e.g. discussion today
17:45:32 [ht]: AvK: So there will be a WikiPage?
17:45:43 [ht]: NM: We have TAG wiki space at w3c
17:45:48 [annevk]: and we should maybe create http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG
17:46:23 [marcosc_]: or: https://github.com/w3ctag/f2f-meetings/wiki
17:46:25 [marcosc_]: ;)
17:46:40 [annevk]: marcosc_: I don't really see the point in using GH for that
17:47:23 [annevk]: marcosc_: the URLs you get are way worse and there's none of the distributed benefits
17:47:24 [ht]: I prefer W3 space
17:47:40 [ht]: wiki.w3.org/TAG
17:48:15 [ht]: AvK: W3C should have only one wiki
17:48:30 [noah]: I get "You don't have permission" from wiki.w3.org/TAG
17:48:40 [ht]: I should have said http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG
17:49:00 [annevk]: which is what I said ;)
17:49:00 [noah]: Right, you should :-)
17:49:19 [noah]: That works
17:49:24 [slightlyoff]: SGTM
17:50:00 [marcosc_]: +!
17:50:05 [marcosc_]: +1 even
17:50:39 [ht]: NM: Next week?
17:50:46 [ht]: AvK: I pbly can't
17:51:27 [ht]: NM: So we leave it on the books, but expect that we won't actually have a call on 23 May
17:51:32 [ht]: PL: Works
17:52:08 [JeniT]: bye
17:52:10 [slightlyoff]: later!
17:52:10 [Zakim]: -marcosc_
17:52:11 [Zakim]: -JeniT
17:52:13 [Zakim]: -noah
17:52:15 [Zakim]: -slightlyoff
17:52:15 [ht]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG now exists
17:52:17 [Zakim]: -plinss
17:52:22 [Zakim]: -annevk
17:52:30 [Zakim]: -ht
17:52:31 [Zakim]: TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
17:52:31 [Zakim]: Attendees were plinss, ht, marcosc_, annevk, JeniT, noah, +1.415.997.aaaa, slightlyoff
17:52:51 [ht]: Noah - confirm you can read/edit that page?
17:53:16 [ht]: Or Anne?
17:53:18 [noah]: Will check, one sec...
17:53:59 [noah]: Sorry, I don't have my wiki password handy...as I recall, it was separate from W3C usual login or not?
17:54:07 [noah]: I do have my usual w3c login
17:54:07 [annevk]: it should be W3C login I think
17:54:12 [noah]: Will try
17:54:13 [annevk]: also W3C username
17:54:15 [ht]: My usual W3 logiing worked
17:54:29 [annevk]: wfm too
17:54:30 [ht]: Yes, I had forgotten to use my w3 name
17:55:25 [noah]: Yup, np editing. You should see a small update from me.
17:58:48 [ht]: zakim, bye
17:58:48 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #tagmem
17:58:56 [ht]: rrsagent, draft minutes
17:58:56 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/16-tagmem-minutes.html ht
17:59:03 [ht]: rrsagent, bye
17:59:03 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items