IRC log of ua on 2013-01-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:58:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:58:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc
17:58:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:58:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
17:58:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
17:58:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
17:58:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17:58:26 [trackbot]
Date: 24 January 2013
17:58:29 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:58:36 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:59:35 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
18:00:34 [kford]
zakim, code?
18:00:36 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), kford
18:01:01 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
18:02:51 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
18:02:56 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
18:03:14 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
18:03:32 [allanj]
allanj has joined #ua
18:04:06 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
18:04:34 [Zakim]
+??P9
18:04:38 [sharper]
zakim, ??P9 is sharper
18:04:38 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
18:04:43 [allanj]
zakim, who is here?
18:04:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jeanne, [Microsoft], Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, sharper
18:04:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see allanj, Greg, sharper, kford, Zakim, RRSAgent, jeanne, trackbot
18:05:27 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch
18:07:55 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:07:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html kford
18:08:01 [kford]
scribe: kford
18:08:23 [allanj]
UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/
18:08:33 [sharper]
scribe: sharper
18:08:42 [allanj]
agenda+ UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/
18:09:07 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
18:09:07 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/" taken up [from allanj]
18:09:07 [allanj]
Agenda+ conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc)
18:09:20 [allanj]
Agenda+ resolving @@ from the draft.
18:09:33 [allanj]
Agenda+ definition of levels
18:09:50 [sharper]
regrets+ Richards_Jan
18:10:35 [sharper]
JS: INDIEUI Events working draft published - now have a dependancy on UAWG to prevent overlap
18:10:53 [sharper]
JS: There group formed to look at modality independance
18:11:22 [sharper]
JS: They would like us to look at this.
18:11:37 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
18:11:49 [sharper]
JS: Normally they don't have dependancies to other WAI groups - at our suggestion
18:12:03 [sharper]
JS: Lets look at it - and decide on responces
18:12:48 [jeanne]
Overview -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/indieui
18:13:03 [allanj]
regrets: Jan
18:13:06 [jeanne]
Document -> http://www.w3.org/TR/indie-ui-events/
18:13:26 [jeanne]
Blog -> http://www.w3.org/QA/2013/01/indie-ui_events_fpwd.html
18:13:29 [allanj]
Latest editor's draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20130108
18:14:37 [Zakim]
+EricHansen
18:14:53 [allanj]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130108/
18:16:47 [sharper]
zakim, agenda?
18:16:47 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
18:16:49 [Zakim]
1. UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/ [from allanj]
18:16:49 [Zakim]
2. conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) [from allanj]
18:16:49 [Zakim]
3. resolving @@ from the draft. [from allanj]
18:16:49 [Zakim]
4. definition of levels [from allanj]
18:16:59 [sharper]
zakim, close item 1
18:16:59 [Zakim]
agendum 1, UAWG review of First Public Working Draft of IndieUI: Events needed http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-indie-ui-events-20130122/, closed
18:17:00 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 2
18:17:02 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:17:02 [Zakim]
2. conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) [from allanj]
18:17:02 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc)" taken up [from allanj]
18:17:15 [allanj]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0003.html
18:17:23 [allanj]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0010.html
18:17:32 [allanj]
http://www.w3.org/2013/01/22-ua-minutes.html - new thoughts
18:17:54 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0012.html - Use cases
18:19:37 [sharper]
JA: First link Greg Wrote / 2nd link responses / 3rd link / JA-JS discussion / Link 4 is the cleaned up version.
18:21:25 [sharper]
JS: 2nd is full featured missing some criteria but could conform with extensions
18:21:39 [sharper]
3rd partial features which don't conform
18:22:01 [sharper]
4th stand alone applications
18:22:44 [sharper]
Use Cases: (Full Conformance?)
18:22:45 [sharper]
1) full featured user agents who conform (full regular conformance)
18:22:45 [sharper]
2) full featured user agents who are missing a few SC, but could conform
18:22:45 [sharper]
with external extensions
18:22:46 [sharper]
3) limited user agents who are constrained by the type of content they
18:22:46 [sharper]
access -- e.g. media players
18:22:53 [sharper]
4) standalone software that has a user agent component (e.g. Microsoft
18:22:53 [sharper]
Word).
18:23:03 [sharper]
Use Cases: (Partial Conformance?)
18:23:03 [sharper]
5) Mobile apps with constrained content -- e.g. the "American Airlines"
18:23:03 [sharper]
app.
18:23:20 [sharper]
6) User agent component
18:23:34 [sharper]
7) User agent component - a full featured browser or player that is
18:23:34 [sharper]
missing some SC but doesn't want to state a specific extension that
18:23:34 [sharper]
could complete it.
18:23:41 [sharper]
8) full or limited user agents who are dependent on the underlying
18:23:41 [sharper]
platform for some SC.
18:24:04 [sharper]
s/8)/8 )
18:24:25 [sharper]
JS: 1st = covered
18:25:16 [sharper]
2nd = propose stop trying to cater to the browsers - If it can be done with extensions then they should include it
18:27:36 [sharper]
EH: claimant is defining the uA and the conformance claimed pertains to their defn of the UA - assumption has been that if they say that the UA + this extension is what is being evaluated then that is what will be evaluated
18:28:15 [sharper]
EH: if we can state up from what flexibility the claimant has in defining the boundaries of the UA
18:28:24 [sharper]
EH: makes things easier now.
18:28:56 [sharper]
KP: if they provide instructions to extension then I've been assuming this is what will be evaluated.
18:29:05 [jeanne]
s/propose stop trying to cater to the browsers - If it can be done with extensions then they should include it/Stop trying to provide partial conformance to the browsers by allowing outside extensions
18:29:38 [sharper]
EH: shouldn't matter who owns that extension - then that is what is evaluated
18:29:47 [sharper]
KP: good extensions should count
18:30:35 [sharper]
EH: Licensing arrangements are irrelevant to conformance - their claim is via any number of defined inclusions or exclusions
18:31:56 [sharper]
JS: I could be talked into that - not adding a whole new structure - claimant defines what parts is their user agent. Defining the boundary of the UA.
18:38:28 [sharper]
EH: discussion of the boundaries of the UA - around JS: #2
18:41:53 [sharper]
JS: will be the boundary - what is an extension and what is an assistive technology
18:45:06 [sharper]
EH: we don't ask for testing but my assumption is that it has to work together
18:46:07 [sharper]
JS: We will have to test for w3c policy
18:46:42 [sharper]
JS: we have to show 2 implementations of each success criteria.
18:52:56 [allanj]
scribe: jallan
18:52:56 [Zakim]
-sharper
18:58:24 [Greg]
Three separate discussions: (1) what products needs to be tested against UAAG20; (2) how to test the product against each SC, and what specific answers are allowed e.g. pass, fail, not applicable; (3) how to summarize those into a conformance claim, including conformance levels, partial conformance claims if we allow them, whether you have to include specific add-ons, etc.
18:58:55 [Greg]
s/include specific/cite specific/
18:58:59 [allanj]
ja: tries to summarize
18:59:30 [allanj]
js provided use cases
19:00:18 [allanj]
discussion of conformance, progress toward conformance, but must set some bar
19:01:50 [allanj]
gl: partial conformance, pass 75% of A, 53% of AA, and 23% of AAA
19:02:18 [allanj]
kp: should list what is not met
19:02:20 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:02:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html kford
19:04:15 [allanj]
js: percentages are tough. and contentious. 150 preferences, how to weight fully met, some trivial thing missed vs. an important item is missed.
19:05:06 [Greg]
Jeanne, I didn't mean to suggest that they measure what percentage of their product complies with a particular SC, but rather what percentage of the SC their entire product complies with.
19:07:23 [Greg]
And of course the actual answers for all SC would be included in the claim.
19:07:48 [allanj]
zakim, close item 2
19:07:48 [Zakim]
agendum 2, conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc), closed
19:07:50 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:07:50 [Zakim]
3. resolving @@ from the draft. [from allanj]
19:08:41 [allanj]
zakim, open item 3
19:08:41 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "resolving @@ from the draft." taken up [from allanj]
19:10:27 [allanj]
2.1.1 jim sent these before the new year
19:10:41 [allanj]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20130108/
19:12:15 [Greg]
2.1.1, 2.11.2, and 4.1.2 all have @@ in the Related Resources sections.
19:12:18 [Eric]
Eric has joined #ua
19:12:25 [allanj]
2.11.2 editor task
19:13:05 [allanj]
4.1.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0006.html
19:13:43 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update 4.1.2 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0006.html
19:13:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-792 - Update 4.1.2 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0006.html [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31].
19:14:21 [allanj]
2.1.1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0056.html
19:14:41 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:14:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html allanj
19:14:56 [allanj]
rrsagend, set logs public
19:15:04 [allanj]
rrsagent, set logs public
19:15:46 [Zakim]
-Kim_Patch
19:17:08 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update 2.1.1 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0056.html
19:17:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-793 - Update 2.1.1 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0056.html [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31].
19:19:00 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update the link in 2.11.2 to Latest HTML5
19:19:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-794 - Update the link in 2.11.2 to Latest HTML5 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31].
19:20:32 [allanj]
topic: glossary
19:21:15 [allanj]
jeanne will delete the terms.
19:23:23 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update the glossary to move all unused items to the end.
19:23:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-795 - Update the glossary to move all unused items to the end. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31].
19:24:55 [allanj]
the @@ will be removed when we formally publish. jeanne will move them to the end of the document.
19:25:45 [allanj]
GLOBALLY - 1.4.1 need to write a definition. applies to the UA, not a specific page or particular content
19:26:50 [Greg]
Globally: a global setting is one that applies to the entire user agent or all content being rendered by it, rather than to a specific feature within the user agent or a specific document being viewed.
19:28:34 [Greg]
A global command is one that is available regardless of what content the user is currently viewing.
19:29:51 [Greg]
We use "global setting"/"global option", "global volume", "global command"/"global control".
19:30:17 [Greg]
Also "globally set".
19:31:34 [Greg]
Those break down into global settings/options/volume (and globally set), global commands/controls.
19:32:17 [Greg]
Might want to normalize the phrasing (e.g. change the one occurance of global option to global setting) in an editorial pass.
19:32:44 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to add definition for global - Globally: a global setting is one that applies to the entire user agent or all content being rendered by it, rather than to a specific feature within the user agent or a specific document being viewed.
19:32:44 [jeanne]
<Greg> A global command is one that is available regardless of what content the user is currently viewing
19:32:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-796 - Add definition for global - Globally: a global setting is one that applies to the entire user agent or all content being rendered by it, rather than to a specific feature within the user agent or a specific document being viewed. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31].
19:33:50 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to normalize the phrase "global settings" in intent for 1.1.2 and example for 2.9.1
19:33:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-797 - Normalize the phrase "global settings" in intent for 1.1.2 and example for 2.9.1 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-01-31].
19:34:05 [Zakim]
-EricHansen
19:34:12 [Zakim]
-Greg_Lowney
19:34:30 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
19:34:45 [allanj]
add to agenda for next week - review Eric's comments
19:37:36 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:37:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html allanj
19:38:56 [allanj]
zakim, please part
19:38:56 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, [Microsoft], Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, sharper, Kim_Patch, EricHansen
19:38:56 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:39:52 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:39:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-minutes.html allanj
19:40:05 [allanj]
rrsagent, please part
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-actions.rdf :
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update 4.1.2 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0006.html [1]
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-13-43
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update 2.1.1 with email from Jim -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0056.html [2]
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-17-08
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update the link in 2.11.2 to Latest HTML5 [3]
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-19-00
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update the glossary to move all unused items to the end. [4]
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-23-23
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to add definition for global - Globally: a global setting is one that applies to the entire user agent or all content being rendered by it, rather than to a specific feature within the user agent or a specific document being viewed. [5]
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-32-44
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to normalize the phrase "global settings" in intent for 1.1.2 and example for 2.9.1 [6]
19:40:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/24-ua-irc#T19-33-50