See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 03 October 2012
<scribe> scribe: nvdbleek
John_Boyer: Without a scoping
mechanism we aren't going to solve the current
limitations
... A number of vendors have worked around the issues
... We have a design time feature for building components
... it is easier to solve the id scoping issues at design
time
... Maybe we could just note in the spec the limitations
nvdbleek: We are using the XBL approach allot lately, but other implementers found that approach to complicated
Steven_: An imperfect solution isn't very nice
nvdbleek: I find the current proposal to imperfect for being the standardised way to do sub-forms
Steven_: We always attempted to
do the perfect thing
... We could specify that IDs should be consistently
renamed
nvdbleek: One of the use cases was to send events from outside the the subform inside the subform
John_Boyer: It could be expensive to do the rewriting at run-time
<John_Boyer> Although some have often struggled with it, my point is that I never struggle with it anymore because the design tool handles subforms, ID rewriting and rewriting of IDREFs to match
John_Boyer: I would be happy if a run-time version of this is added to the spec, but it is going to take a long time to specify, test and validate
Steven_: So does this mean that the user should make sure that the ID's are unique
nvdbleek: We can support the same ID's at different repeat iteration, but we have to specify this.
John_Boyer: The user can't know
if there are ID conflicts, because he is getting the contents
from somewhere else
... In my opinion it is either don't touch the feature or
otherwise do it right
ebruchez: last time we had some exchanges on the mailing, Joern had a strong opinion to keep the solution simple. And don't make it to complicated.
John_Boyer: If you make your id's namespaced by prepending something unique for every form would 'solve' the problem
<ebruchez> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2012Jun/0019.html
<ebruchez> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2012Jun/0018.html
ebruchez: I wanted try to set
some things that could be done, without specifying to
much
... An implementation could automatically prefix the ID's,
another implementation could use a shadow tree. But then you
have to specify if and how you could send events inside the
subform from outside the subform
... I was also leaning to not doing something half baked
... The baked solution is that the implementation should solve
the duplicate IDs
John_Boyer: When you send an event from outside the subform to the inside we should specify what the id for the target attribute should be
<ebruchez> - events from the embedded form should not flow over to the embedding form
<ebruchez> - the embedding form should not be able to address elements of the
<ebruchez> embedded form with simple id references
<ebruchez> - the embedded form should not be able to address elements of the
<ebruchez> embedding form with simple id references
<ebruchez> - the embedding form must be able to dispatch an event to the embedded form
<ebruchez> - the embedded form must be able to dispatch an event to the embedding form
<ebruchez> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2012Jun/0015.html
John_Boyer: We could decide that
it isn't possible to not send events across subform
boundaries
... What if you have to separate loaded subforms with the same
ID inside, how do you know to which subform to target when you
send to that ID from the main form?
<John_Boyer> Given a form with two subforms, how can a run-time decide whether X is a reference to the thing with id="X" in subform A or subform B
zakm, mute me
ebruchez: Maybe you shouldn't be able to send events directly inside a subform, but only to the subform, and the controls in the subform should listen to the subform
<John_Boyer> The IDREF X could become A_X or B_X, for example.
ebruchez: this is typically what
you do if you are using shadow-trees
... we could also allow prefixing the IDs, but then every
implementation should support this
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/backed/baked/ Found Scribe: nvdbleek Inferring ScribeNick: nvdbleek Default Present: nvdbleek, [IPcaller], John_Boyer, ebruchez Present: nvdbleek [IPcaller] John_Boyer ebruchez Alain Steven Regrets: Philip Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Oct/0002.html Found Date: 03 Oct 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/03-forms-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]