IRC log of indie-ui on 2012-07-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:56:58 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
- 16:56:58 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc
- 16:57:03 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 16:59:01 [Zakim]
- Team_(indie-ui)17:00Z has now started
- 16:59:09 [Zakim]
- +Doug_Schepers
- 16:59:20 [Zakim]
- +Cooper
- 16:59:26 [janina]
- janina has joined #indie-ui
- 16:59:27 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 16:59:50 [janina]
- zakim, ??P12 is Janina_Sajka
- 16:59:50 [Zakim]
- +Janina_Sajka; got it
- 17:00:19 [Zakim]
- +[Apple]
- 17:00:24 [hober]
- Zakim, Apple has me
- 17:00:24 [Zakim]
- +hober; got it
- 17:01:28 [janina]
- Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
- 17:01:28 [janina]
- Chair: Janina_Sajka
- 17:01:28 [janina]
- agenda+ Admin Update: Repository; Tracker; Work Statement CFC; TPAC
- 17:01:28 [janina]
- agenda+ Recruiting Update; Polling for Telecon Time?
- 17:01:28 [janina]
- agenda+ Use Cases Progress; Discussion?
- 17:01:31 [janina]
- agenda+ Events Module from Apple; Discussion?
- 17:01:33 [janina]
- agenda+ User Preferences Proposal -- Rich Schwerdtfeger & Andy Heath
- 17:01:36 [janina]
- agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 25 July)
- 17:01:38 [janina]
- agenda+ Be Done
- 17:02:18 [janina]
- zakim, who's here?
- 17:02:18 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, [Apple]
- 17:02:19 [Zakim]
- [Apple] has hober
- 17:02:19 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, hober, smaug_, MichaelC, ArtB, shepazu, trackbot
- 17:02:34 [richardschwerdtfe]
- richardschwerdtfe has joined #indie-ui
- 17:02:41 [MichaelC]
- agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Jul/0006.html
- 17:02:47 [MichaelC]
- chair: Janina_Sajka
- 17:03:38 [Zakim]
- +Art_Barstow
- 17:04:00 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 17:04:11 [clown]
- clown has joined #indie-ui
- 17:04:14 [Zakim]
- +Rich
- 17:04:22 [MichaelC]
- zakim, ??P2 is Andy_Heath
- 17:04:22 [Zakim]
- +Andy_Heath; got it
- 17:04:31 [MichaelC]
- zakim, mute andy
- 17:04:31 [Zakim]
- Andy_Heath should now be muted
- 17:05:37 [Zakim]
- +[GVoice]
- 17:05:47 [clown]
- zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:05:52 [andy]
- andy has joined #indie-ui
- 17:06:08 [Zakim]
- +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
- 17:06:13 [clown]
- zakim, I am on the phone.
- 17:06:20 [clown]
- zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:06:23 [Zakim]
- +[Apple.a]
- 17:06:27 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'I am on the phone', clown
- 17:06:29 [Zakim]
- ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 17:06:39 [janina]
- zakim, pick a victim
- 17:06:39 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Doug_Schpers
- 17:06:48 [MichaelC]
- zakim, Apple.a is James_Craig
- 17:06:48 [Zakim]
- +James_Craig; got it
- 17:07:17 [jcraig]
- jcraig has joined #indie-ui
- 17:07:41 [ArtB]
- Scribe: ArtB
- 17:07:43 [andy]
- its a technical term
- 17:07:47 [ArtB]
- ScribeNick: ArtB
- 17:07:57 [jcraig]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:07:57 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, [Apple], Art_Barstow, Andy_Heath (muted), Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, James_Craig
- 17:07:59 [Zakim]
- [Apple] has hober
- 17:08:14 [ArtB]
- Present: Janina, Doug, Michael, Andy, Joseph, James
- 17:08:33 [ArtB]
- Topic: Admin
- 17:08:45 [ArtB]
- JS: is trackbot ready?
- 17:08:51 [ArtB]
- MC: still working on it
- 17:09:11 [jcraig]
- Zakim, disconnect James_Craig
- 17:09:11 [Zakim]
- James_Craig is being disconnected
- 17:09:12 [ArtB]
- … also working on hg repo
- 17:09:12 [Zakim]
- -James_Craig
- 17:09:37 [ArtB]
- MC: we are waiting for submissions
- 17:09:46 [ArtB]
- … the call was made
- 17:09:59 [ArtB]
- … have received some input re UCs
- 17:10:08 [ArtB]
- JS: July 15 is the deadline for proposals
- 17:10:23 [ArtB]
- … James, what's the status of your doc?
- 17:10:36 [ArtB]
- [ JC dropped off ]
- 17:10:46 [ArtB]
- MC: James put a version in the PF space
- 17:10:58 [Zakim]
- +[Apple.a]
- 17:11:00 [ArtB]
- … not sure if that becomes an ED for this TF
- 17:11:11 [MichaelC]
- zakim, Apple.a is James_Craig
- 17:11:11 [Zakim]
- +James_Craig; got it
- 17:11:40 [ArtB]
- JC: waiting for respec conversion
- 17:11:49 [ArtB]
- … we should use that version
- 17:12:10 [ArtB]
- MC: the respec conversion isn't complete
- 17:12:16 [jcraig]
- Zakim, [Apple.a] has jcraig
- 17:12:16 [Zakim]
- sorry, jcraig, I do not recognize a party named '[Apple.a]'
- 17:12:38 [andy]
- zakim unmute Andy
- 17:12:39 [ArtB]
- MC: given the CfP, not clear if we should wait until the proposal deadline
- 17:12:47 [ArtB]
- … or start with James' input now
- 17:13:06 [jcraig]
- Zakim, James_Craig is [Apple]
- 17:13:06 [Zakim]
- +[Apple]; got it
- 17:13:10 [ArtB]
- MC: I think the ED should be a consensus version
- 17:13:14 [jcraig]
- Zakim, Apple has jcraig
- 17:13:14 [Zakim]
- +jcraig; got it
- 17:13:19 [ArtB]
- … I could put a copy of James' doc in the wiki
- 17:13:24 [shepazu]
- q+
- 17:13:31 [andy]
- what's the syntax for unmute pls ?
- 17:13:51 [jcraig]
- Zakim, umute Andy_Heath
- 17:13:51 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'umute Andy_Heath', jcraig
- 17:13:58 [ArtB]
- DS: I tend to think EDs may not necessarily reflect consensus of the group
- 17:14:12 [ArtB]
- … and consensus is for TR versions
- 17:14:12 [jcraig]
- Zakim, unmute Andy_Heath
- 17:14:12 [Zakim]
- Andy_Heath should no longer be muted
- 17:14:20 [andy]
- ty
- 17:14:29 [andy]
- Zakim, mute Andy_Heath
- 17:14:29 [Zakim]
- Andy_Heath should now be muted
- 17:14:58 [ArtB]
- … I suggest we start with an ED with some substance
- 17:15:07 [richardschwerdtfe]
- q+
- 17:15:27 [ArtB]
- JS: we have a proposal but no consensus yet
- 17:15:44 [ArtB]
- … what I hear is we can put the proposal in the ED now and mark it as such
- 17:15:58 [ArtB]
- … and state it doesn't reflect consensus
- 17:16:14 [ArtB]
- MC: we need one ED
- 17:16:22 [ArtB]
- … and proposals get put into the wiki
- 17:16:37 [ArtB]
- … not clear how we manage multiple versions
- 17:16:39 [ArtB]
- q+
- 17:16:58 [ArtB]
- DS: can use tags, etc.
- 17:17:06 [ArtB]
- RS: expect multiple specs
- 17:17:14 [ArtB]
- JS: yes, agree we have at least two specs
- 17:17:50 [janina]
- q?
- 17:18:00 [janina]
- ack a
- 17:18:36 [ArtB]
- AB: I think we should just agree that James' proposal becomes the ED
- 17:18:47 [ArtB]
- DS: agree
- 17:19:07 [ArtB]
- RS: that's ok with me
- 17:19:20 [ArtB]
- MC: some of James' spec has Events and some is Context
- 17:19:30 [ArtB]
- … I could just put the events part in the Events ED
- 17:19:49 [janina]
- Art, that was James Craig
- 17:20:49 [ArtB]
- [ James and Michael talked about how to manage the source code for the Events spec … ]
- 17:21:27 [ArtB]
- MC: respec has some challenges re versions
- 17:21:38 [ArtB]
- JC: I'm willing to review what you have Michael
- 17:22:30 [ArtB]
- DS: not sure I understand the version issues
- 17:22:39 [janina]
- q?
- 17:22:42 [ArtB]
- … the doc just needs to clearly state the status
- 17:23:03 [ArtB]
- MC: my pref is to use the wiki for docs that don't have consensus
- 17:23:28 [ArtB]
- DS: I expect each Editor to handle the source control work
- 17:23:36 [jcraig]
- s/I understand the version issues/I understand the reluctance to commit a draft that is clearly marked as draft w/o group consensus/
- 17:23:37 [ArtB]
- JS: I think Doug can help us manage this
- 17:24:13 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Michael post the Apple proposals into the source code repo
- 17:24:13 [trackbot]
- Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
- 17:24:20 [janina]
- ack s
- 17:24:22 [ArtB]
- ack
- 17:24:26 [janina]
- ack r
- 17:24:52 [ArtB]
- Topic: Work Statement
- 17:25:06 [ArtB]
- JS: please see the Work Statement Call for Consensus
- 17:25:14 [ArtB]
- and reply by July 18 at the latest
- 17:25:22 [ArtB]
- AB: looks OK to me!
- 17:25:26 [ArtB]
- Topic: TPAC
- 17:25:39 [ArtB]
- JS: we set aside time for us at TPAC
- 17:25:47 [ArtB]
- … Thursday and Friday that week
- 17:26:39 [ArtB]
- JS: there may be a meeting just for Indie UI WG members
- 17:26:47 [ArtB]
- … and not necessarily include people in this TF
- 17:27:43 [ArtB]
- … the Indie UI WG may need to have some meetings
- 17:27:49 [ArtB]
- Topic: Recruiting Update
- 17:28:01 [ArtB]
- JS: anything we are waiting for?
- 17:28:15 [ArtB]
- … we got a new member today (University of Manchester)
- 17:28:22 [ArtB]
- … how about Mozilla?
- 17:29:27 [ArtB]
- AB: last I heard they were interested but had not indentified a specific person
- 17:29:33 [ArtB]
- JC: anyone from Google on this call?
- 17:29:36 [ArtB]
- [ silence ]
- 17:29:44 [ArtB]
- JS: would be good to get Mozilla
- 17:30:05 [ArtB]
- ACTION: ArtB follow-up with Mozilla re joining the Indie UI TF
- 17:30:05 [trackbot]
- Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
- 17:30:18 [ArtB]
- Topic: Conference Call Time
- 17:30:34 [ArtB]
- JS: we have folks in Asia that want to join our calls
- 17:30:47 [ArtB]
- … we can have a poll
- 17:31:01 [ArtB]
- … although we know there will always be some pain for someone
- 17:31:18 [andy]
- Zakim, unmute Andy_Heath
- 17:31:18 [Zakim]
- Andy_Heath should no longer be muted
- 17:31:37 [ArtB]
- [ Janina educates Doug about the world being round ;-) ]
- 17:31:50 [ArtB]
- JS: anything else re recruiting?
- 17:31:56 [clown]
- q+
- 17:32:23 [ArtB]
- JC: please include timezone in the poll
- 17:33:04 [ArtB]
- … we need to be careful about changing the time for 1-2 people especially if they aren't regular participants
- 17:33:15 [ArtB]
- … would be willing to do a rotating time
- 17:33:32 [ArtB]
- … f.ex. once per month
- 17:33:52 [jcraig]
- or on a case-by-case basis
- 17:34:03 [clown]
- Zakim. ack me
- 17:34:04 [ArtB]
- Joe: I need to follow up with some people
- 17:34:23 [clown]
- ack me
- 17:34:24 [ArtB]
- DS: I think we can expect more participants once we have an ED to share/show
- 17:34:59 [ArtB]
- … it's amazing how an ED can be used to get feedback ;-)
- 17:35:15 [jcraig]
- s/Joe:/clown:/
- 17:36:00 [ArtB]
- ACTION: janina create a poll for voice conference time + day of week
- 17:36:00 [trackbot]
- Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
- 17:36:22 [jcraig]
- s/clown/Joseph/
- 17:36:32 [ArtB]
- Topic: Events Module from Apple
- 17:36:43 [ArtB]
- JS: James gave a preso during the last call
- 17:36:47 [ArtB]
- … any followups?
- 17:36:53 [ArtB]
- [ silence ]
- 17:37:33 [ArtB]
- Topic: Use Cases Proposal
- 17:37:42 [ArtB]
- JS: anything to discuss re Use Cases
- 17:37:51 [ArtB]
- … some inputs from at least Rich
- 17:37:57 [ArtB]
- … and questions, concerns, etc?
- 17:38:15 [ArtB]
- DS: Rich and I talked about UCs and Requirements
- 17:38:27 [ArtB]
- RS: I've contributed quite a few
- 17:38:33 [ArtB]
- … there are about 30 UCs now
- 17:38:48 [ArtB]
- DS: the UCs are good for discussion
- 17:38:56 [ArtB]
- … especially to start a conversation
- 17:39:11 [ArtB]
- JS: yes, everyone has an action to read the UCs
- 17:39:19 [ArtB]
- … and submit comments
- 17:39:33 [ArtB]
- … be able to point to the UCs when we talk outside of the TF
- 17:39:43 [ArtB]
- Topic: User Preferences Proposal
- 17:39:50 [ArtB]
- RS: I am preparing a doc now
- 17:40:00 [ArtB]
- … there is a lot going on in this space
- 17:40:11 [ArtB]
- … the Education space is doing some lead work
- 17:40:19 [ArtB]
- … Access for All is a collection of specs
- 17:40:25 [ArtB]
- … one defines User Prefs
- 17:40:38 [ArtB]
- … and another is Personal Prefs
- 17:40:50 [ArtB]
- … want to match content to user prefs
- 17:41:17 [ArtB]
- … APIP
- 17:41:25 [jcraig]
- http://www.imsglobal.org/apip/index.html
- 17:41:26 [ArtB]
- [ missed what APIP stands for ]
- 17:41:34 [jcraig]
- Accessible Portable Item Protocol (APIP)
- 17:42:00 [ArtB]
- RS: some tech terms get missed by voice recognizers
- 17:42:28 [ArtB]
- … Libraries, Teachers using this work
- 17:42:41 [ArtB]
- JS: Access for All starts in Canada
- 17:43:11 [ArtB]
- RS: Global * is using A4All work
- 17:43:27 [ArtB]
- … using device capabilities
- 17:43:35 [ArtB]
- … need a vocab
- 17:43:44 [ArtB]
- … and let web app know when a feature changes
- 17:44:06 [ArtB]
- … For example, a room gets noisy and the Web app will then automatically turn on captions
- 17:44:17 [jcraig]
- q+ to mention we'll probably need an event for "user preference change"
- 17:44:29 [janina]
- q?
- 17:44:49 [ArtB]
- RS: I want to get everyone familiar with these 3 areas
- 17:45:11 [ArtB]
- JS: IMS is helping here
- 17:45:22 [ArtB]
- Andy: Instructional Management Systems
- 17:45:38 [ArtB]
- RS: they do content packaging for learning modules
- 17:46:23 [ArtB]
- Andy: GPII
- 17:46:39 [ArtB]
- … ISO has done relevant work here too
- 17:47:13 [ArtB]
- … this is a large space so getting info into an ED is non-trivial
- 17:47:32 [janina]
- ack jc
- 17:47:32 [Zakim]
- jcraig, you wanted to mention we'll probably need an event for "user preference change"
- 17:47:40 [ArtB]
- JC: re coordination between the two specs
- 17:47:48 [ArtB]
- … there may be something about font changes
- 17:48:51 [janina]
- q?
- 17:49:23 [ArtB]
- Andy: this is not just education sector
- 17:49:39 [ArtB]
- … it's just that this technology is needed in that sector
- 17:49:57 [ArtB]
- … expect this to be applicable outside of education
- 17:50:34 [ArtB]
- JS: yes, agree. Historically, there were national requirements for education.
- 17:51:23 [jcraig]
- Action: jcraig to verify drafts cover a way for web apps to be notified when user pref changes (e.g. font size, enabling captions) based on explicit user action or UA heuristics like ambient noise level changes, either an event and/or a method.
- 17:51:23 [trackbot]
- Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
- 17:52:03 [shepazu]
- Agenda+ Point of Regard
- 17:52:04 [ArtB]
- RS: Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure
- 17:52:21 [shepazu]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Focus_and_Point_of_Regard
- 17:52:51 [ArtB]
- DS: re Point of Regard, I put some info in the above wiki
- 17:52:58 [ArtB]
- … got definitions from a few places
- 17:53:20 [ArtB]
- … PoR definitions are descriptive and not functional
- 17:53:37 [ArtB]
- … Need functional definition for UAs like browsers
- 17:53:58 [ArtB]
- … Think this could be important to clarify the definitions
- 17:54:31 [Zakim]
- -[Apple.a]
- 17:54:43 [ArtB]
- … This PoR wiki is a place holder for now
- 17:55:07 [ArtB]
- … but would like some feedback about a functional definition of PoR
- 17:55:30 [janina]
- q?
- 17:55:40 [ArtB]
- … For example, PoR could mention focus
- 17:56:13 [ArtB]
- Clown: great idea
- 17:56:24 [ArtB]
- RS: please post to the list when you have something for us to review
- 17:56:27 [ArtB]
- DS: ok; will do
- 17:56:46 [ArtB]
- ACTION: doug notify the list when the PoR wiki is ready for review
- 17:56:46 [trackbot]
- Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
- 17:58:08 [ArtB]
- DS: curious about the term PoR versus Regard or Regard Point
- 17:58:19 [ArtB]
- Clown: screen readers use "cursor"
- 17:59:14 [ArtB]
- Topic: Be Done
- 17:59:21 [ArtB]
- JS: next call is July 25
- 17:59:33 [ArtB]
- … same time
- 17:59:43 [Zakim]
- -Rich
- 17:59:46 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:59:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
- 17:59:59 [Zakim]
- -[Apple]
- 18:00:04 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make log Public
- 18:00:14 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:00:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
- 18:00:32 [ArtB]
- zakim, who is here?
- 18:00:32 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Art_Barstow, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer
- 18:00:34 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see jcraig, andy, clown, richardschwerdtfe, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, hober, smaug_, MichaelC, ArtB, shepazu, trackbot
- 18:00:43 [richardschwerdtfe]
- richardschwerdtfe has left #indie-ui
- 18:02:00 [ArtB]
- Present: James_Craig, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Michael_Cooper
- 18:02:06 [ArtB]
- Chair: Janina
- 18:02:12 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:02:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
- 18:08:47 [ArtB]
- Present+ Edward_OConnor
- 18:08:53 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:08:53 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
- 18:10:19 [hober]
- :)
- 18:10:49 [ArtB]
- Present+ Janina_Sajka
- 18:10:58 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:10:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
- 18:11:17 [Zakim]
- -Cooper
- 18:11:27 [Zakim]
- -Art_Barstow
- 18:21:07 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-actions.rdf :
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Michael post the Apple proposals into the source code repo [1]
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-24-13
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: ArtB follow-up with Mozilla re joining the Indie UI TF [2]
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-30-05
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: janina create a poll for voice conference time + day of week [3]
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-36-00
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jcraig to verify drafts cover a way for web apps to be notified when user pref changes (e.g. font size, enabling captions) based on explicit user action or UA heuristics like ambient noise level changes, either an event and/or a method. [4]
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-51-23
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: doug notify the list when the PoR wiki is ready for review [5]
- 18:21:07 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-56-46