17:01:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-techs-tf
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17:01:39 <Joshue> zakim, this will be 9224
17:01:39 <Zakim> ok, Joshue; I see WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM scheduled to start 31 minutes ago
17:01:48 <jnurthen> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:01:48 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has not yet started, jnurthen
17:01:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Loretta, jnurthen, Joshue, adam
17:01:57 <David> David has joined #html-techs-tf
17:02:00 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #html-techs-tf
17:03:27 <jnurthen> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:03:27 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has not yet started, jnurthen
17:03:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see marcjohlic, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, Loretta, jnurthen, Joshue, adam
17:05:18 <David_> David_ has joined #html-techs-tf
17:06:38 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #html-techs-tf
17:11:02 <Joshue108> zakim, this will be 9224
17:11:02 <Zakim> ok, Joshue108; I see WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM scheduled to start 41 minutes ago
17:11:20 <Joshue108> rrsagent, make log world
17:11:40 <Joshue108> meeting: HTML Techniques Task Force
17:11:55 <Joshue108> chair: Joshue
17:12:11 <Joshue108> Agenda + Review submitted Techniques
17:12:17 <Joshue108> scribeNick: James
17:12:20 <jnurthen> scribeNick: jnurthen
17:12:33 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item one
17:12:33 <Zakim> 'one' does not match any agenda item, Joshue108
17:12:37 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 1
17:12:37 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Review submitted Techniques" taken up [from Joshue108]
17:12:54 <jnurthen> JOC: A couple of techiques submitted
17:13:25 <jnurthen> JOC: I have started a couple of draft techniques
17:14:45 <DavidTodd> http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Using_the_html5_required_attribute_to_indicate_that_a_value_is_required_in_an_input_field
17:15:09 <jnurthen> TOPIC: Review of HTML5 Required Technique (URI above)
17:16:13 <jnurthen> LGR: Trace wiki - will be there until it stops working
17:17:06 <jnurthen> LGR: better to use the w3c wiki - but if you have credetntials can use it
17:17:17 <jnurthen> JOC: be aware that not everyone can edit on the trace wiki
17:17:33 <jnurthen> DT: Just used this because this is what I had available
17:17:47 <jnurthen> DT: just let me know where tyo transfer it to
17:18:15 <jnurthen> JOC: Straightforward technique
17:18:37 <Loretta> q+
17:18:50 <jnurthen> DM: Whole user agent support issue
17:19:04 <jnurthen> DM: There are a whole bunch of different ways of specifying required
17:19:42 <jnurthen> DM: want a few examples rather than one
17:20:26 <jnurthen> JN: as long as our exmaples are correct I think that is enough
17:20:35 <jnurthen> JN: isn it enough to link to the spec?
17:21:32 <jnurthen> JN: I think we should use best practice
17:22:11 <jnurthen> LGR: don't want to jst refer to the spec
17:22:27 <jnurthen> JOC: Both syntaxes are correct
17:23:25 <jnurthen> Adam: can't be comprehensive - but as developers are used to using values for their attributes may want to add this here
17:23:38 <jnurthen> JOC: issue of multiple syntaxes is going to come up again
17:24:03 <jnurthen> Adam: If using required by iteslf should also include the other
17:25:19 <jnurthen> required is the same as required="true" which equals required="false" which equals required=0 
17:27:39 <jnurthen> Adam: required="required" seems to be used
17:27:48 <Loretta> Is this the right link? http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#attr-select-required
17:28:41 <jnurthen> LGR: asking about relationship to aria-required
17:29:34 <jnurthen> JN: I think if in the same techiqiue we confuse the user aganet support
17:30:07 <jnurthen> http://john.foliot.ca/required-inputs/
17:30:33 <jnurthen> ??: Is this AT only or all user agents?
17:32:10 <jnurthen> JOC: some are pretty accessible
17:33:16 <jnurthen> LGR: what is is supposed to be doing according to the spec?
17:33:44 <jnurthen> JOC: in some places the spec defines the user experience but on other places it doesn't
17:34:11 <jnurthen> LGR: wouldn't expect to define the visual experience but would perhaps expect that if trying to submit it would fail
17:35:04 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/common-input-element-attributes.html#the-required-attribute
17:35:54 <jnurthen> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/common-microsyntaxes.html#boolean-attribute
17:38:17 <jnurthen> JN: what are we going to do for boolean attributes in html5? Both styles or one?
17:38:29 <jnurthen> JOC: I think we should think about it a little more
17:39:08 <David> http://www.eramp.com/david/html5/required.html
17:39:14 <jnurthen> LGR: we should include the link to the correct place in the spec but should also help people in plain english
17:40:51 <jnurthen> lgr: Is it clear what kind of modifications need doing?
17:41:29 <jnurthen> DT: have a few notes about UA support, test procedure and ....
17:41:41 <jnurthen> LGR: needs some work on the test prodedure
17:41:59 <jnurthen> Adam: we assume that the presence of the required attribute satisfies the success criteria
17:42:09 <jnurthen> DT: poerhaps take out step number 2
17:42:35 <David> http://www.eramp.com/david/html5/html5_forms.html
17:43:16 <jnurthen> JN: depends what success criteria you are trying to meet
17:43:58 <jnurthen> LGR: This could also be a 3.3.2 techique with user agent notes
17:45:27 <Loretta> But 3.3.2 would still need a label, in addition.
17:48:45 <jnurthen> LGR: sounding less like a 3.3.2 candidate even for parialt
17:49:02 <jnurthen> s/parialt/parital/
17:49:20 <jnurthen> s/parital/partial/
17:49:38 <jnurthen> Adam: would like to see more visual discussion
17:50:23 <jnurthen> JOC: can add CSS to the field.
17:50:43 <jnurthen> LGR: could do a sufficient technique for this - need to look at H90
17:51:04 <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/H90.html could be a model for how to write a 3.2.2 technique.
17:51:19 <Loretta> It would need CSS and label as well as required attribute.
17:52:45 <jnurthen> LGR: H90 discusses what the group thought was minimally acceptable
17:53:42 <Loretta> For each indicator of required status that is not provided in text, check that the meaning of the indicator is explained before the form control that uses it. 
17:54:41 <jnurthen> LGR: concern is that * is easy to miss
17:55:11 <jnurthen> JOC: I like having the text required in the label
17:58:45 <jnurthen> JN: I think this should be a seperate technique
17:58:49 <jnurthen> LGR: agree
18:07:26 <jnurthen> rrsagent, make minutes
18:07:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-html-techs-tf-minutes.html jnurthen
18:07:42 <jnurthen> zakim, who is on the call?
18:07:43 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has not yet started, jnurthen
18:07:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Joshue108, DavidTodd, marcjohlic, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, Loretta, jnurthen
18:13:30 <jnurthen> zakim, please part
18:13:30 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-techs-tf
18:13:41 <jnurthen> rrsagent, make minutes
18:13:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-html-techs-tf-minutes.html jnurthen