[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
02 Feb 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0020.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/02-html-a11y-irc
Attendees
Present
Regrets
Laura_Carlson
Chair
Janina_Sajka
Scribe
MichaelC, LeonieW
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Issue-164 Group
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/164
2. [6]Issue-193 Bad CSS Example
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/193
3. [7]Issue-194 Media Full Transcript
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/194
4. [8]Issue-199 ARIA Attributes Processing
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
5. [9]Issue-201 Canvas Fallback
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
6. [10]Issue-202 Fig-Caption Word Count
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202
7. [11]Issue-203 Media Element Text Description
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203
8. [12]Issue-199 ARIA Attributes Processing
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
9. [13]Issue-201 Canvas Fallback
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
10. [14]Issue 193.
* [15]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 02 February 2012
<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
<scribe> scribenick: LeonieW
Issue-164 Group [16]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/164
[16] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/164
SF: When you have multiple h1 in an hgroup, only the first goes
into the document outline.
... Within the ARIA spec it says that what hgroup does is to
take the headings, and the hgroup itself becomes the level of
the highest heading contained within it.
... In the document outline it's removed, it remains in the
document itself though.
... You end up with a heading and a sub heading visually, but
semantically you lose that information about the sub heading.
JS: Steve, you raised a change proposal, and since then other
proposals have been submitted.
SF: Yes, several change proposals out there.
... When reviewing the real world examples I noticed that quite
often hgroup wasn't used properly.
... My change proposal proposes the idea of a sub line.
... I have another proposal out there that recommends an
attribute for removing the sub heading from the document
outline.
JS: You have two proposals?
<MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
jf: more important to pick up relationship
don't care about element
js: to recap, care about semantic value, not about the
mechanism to provide
cs: info still in the spec, right?
sf: yes
cs: so address in API mapping?
sf: semantics of hgroup defined in HTML 5, including
appropriate role
it removes the "headingness" of the two headings and makes them
one
if the mapping document contradicts, need to update HTML
but prefer to take advantage of the new element
in a semantically useful manner
rather than hack around it
js: one CP could be to remove element
sf: it is already present
js: seems sense of TF is we want to preserve semantics; hgroup
is problematic in that regard; don't care about mechanism
cs: while we want to preserve semantics, I don't want to die on
sword for this one
jf: +1
<LeonieW> scribenick: LeonieW
<MichaelC> scribe: LeonieW
SF: We'll find there is momentum there, and if there's going to
be change, we should have a position on that.
JB: If we could agree whether we think this change is relevant,
that would seem straightforward and sufficient.
CS@ Not going to fight over it, but think we need to look at
our priorities.
JS: Hearing no objections.
Issue-193 Bad CSS Example
[17]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/193
[17] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/193
CS: Suggest a reorg of the agenda to get to canvas?
<Stevef>
[18]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/outlinenone
[18] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/outlinenone
SF: Change proposal is out there. Has plenty of evidence.
JS: Would be good if everyone could look at this CP over the
next week so we can move to a resolution on it next week.
... Issue 193, worth noting it contradicts WCAG.
SF: Thanks. That's already in there.
Issue-194 Media Full Transcript
[19]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/194
[19] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/194
MC: Think it's fairly straight forward. The section on ARIA
needs expanding.
... Planning on doing the substantial part of this tomorrow.
RS: Did you put in my info about role?
SF: Not yet.
RS: Did you see the post Michael?
MC: Yes.
SF: Talking about bringing info from V1 and V2 together.
MC: Believe this will address 11893. 11892 seems to be a
duplicate though.
... 11891 will be caught.
... Think one CP will do here.
JS: Questions?
SF: What we don't want to have is a situation where HTML5 is
locked into not allowing new roles as ARIA evolves.
MC: Yes. That's something I hope defining the role attribute
within the HTML5 spec will help with.
RS: We need to be able to update ARIA without changing the
HTML5 spec.
MC: The issue with saying that roles are recognised from the
ARIA spec, it's dependent on user agents processing them.
RS: Could we talk about patterns?
MC: Trying to follow the ARIA spec. If you don't recognise the
token, you go on until you find one you do. The API mapping doc
will then be the source for the tokens you recognise.
JS: Sounds like we're on track. Please look out for the CP to
review when it's ready.
Issue-199 ARIA Attributes Processing
[20]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
[20] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
Issue-201 Canvas Fallback
[21]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
[21] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
FO: If you could send comments or proposed edits on the CP it
would be useful
JB: Any issues to discuss on the call?
FO: No, just to make everyone aware of it.
JF: Could we get an executive summary of the proposal?
FO: Proposal is to complete the sub dom idea.
<richardschwerdtfe>
[22]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Canvas_hit_testing
[22] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Canvas_hit_testing
FO: The change defines regions on the canvas that relate to the
shadow dom. If you interact with the bitmap it should fire the
event through. So the bitmap is a proxy for the element
underneath it.
JF: This sounds functionally similar to a client side image
map?
FO: Somewhat in concept. Imagemaps have other issues.
JF: Right. In the sense I'm clicking on a picture but
activating something underneath it?
FO: Yes.
... There isn't a mechanism in canvas at the moment to deal
with multiple controls. Anything more involved than a single
interaction isn't catered for.
RS: It allows you to do hit testing on canvas, and also to
provide a magnifier.
JF: What happens when your hit region is animated?
FO: This would solve that problem too. The hot spot and the
animation can be dealt with separately, but brought together.
RS: The last thing drawn is the one that gets the hit.
JS: Sounds like there's general agreement here.
RS: Believe this has to be submitted by the 11th?
... Need to get a resolution on this next Thursday.
Issue-202 Fig-Caption Word Count
[23]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202
[23] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202
JS: Will we end up with a proposal?
JB: My aim is to have a proposal before the sub team meeting on
Tuesday and review it then, before forwarding to the TF next
Thursday.
Issue-203 Media Element Text Description
[24]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203
[24] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203
JS: We need to keep this alive, but we need issue 130 to be
dealth with first?
JF: In issue 203, you're right. It's related to longdesc in
some ways. If we could use longdesc on media elements it would
be one solution. It's also related to issue 142 (poster alt).
... As we discussed at TPAC, the solution may lie outside of
HTML in ARIA 1.1.
RS: It's in for ARIA 1.1.
JF: There was positive feedback from Frank at MS and Jonas from
Mozilla.
Issue-199 ARIA Attributes Processing
[25]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
[25] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
Issue-201 Canvas Fallback
[26]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
[26] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
Issue 193.
JF: The proposal is to introduce an attribute.
CS: Why is an attribute needed? Wouldn't a link by the media
element work?
JF: It isn't as clean if a link is used.
CS: There are pages with media and plenty of other links.
JF: What about if the video is viewed full screen?
CS: They close the window and follow the link.
JF: It isn't a hill to die for, but adding an attribute like
this seems fairly innocuous.
<Judy> Text sub-team met Tuesday 20120131; minutes posted
[27]http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-text-minutes
[27] http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-text-minutes
<Judy> - Meta name generator: confirmed edits to CP requested
during the TF review last week. Poll to list is pending from
Janina.
<Judy> - Title: discussed multiple edits to CP to clarify
presentation of rationale and supporting evidence. Those edits
pending from Steve. TF subteam will review them next Tuesday
then bring to TF.
<Judy> - WG location of alt guidance: discussed several
questions regarding primary focus of CP in progress by Michael,
and main points for rationale. Updated version of that is
pending from Michael.
s/Topic: Issue 193/Topic: Issue 194/
<Judy> - Timing is tight on some of these that need to go from
Text subteam to TF to polls.
<Judy> - Our next scheduled meeting is next Tuesday, 1pm, US
Eastern. All welcome.
CS: We were working on editorial stuff within the API mappings
group.
RS: Nothing to report from the canvas sub team.
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's [28]scribe.perl version
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$Date: 2012/02/02 17:01:56 $
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[28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[29] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
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<dbooth> Present+ amy
Regrets: Laura_Carlson
Agenda: [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb
/0020.html
Found Date: 02 Feb 2012
Guessing minutes URL: [32]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/02-html-a11y-minutes
.html
People with action items:
[31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0020.html
[32] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/02-html-a11y-minutes.html
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[33] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm