14:58:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:59:03 <davidwood> Zakim, who is here?
David Wood: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:59:03 <Zakim> sorry, davidwood, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, davidwood, I don't know what conference this is ←
14:59:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, mischat, Guus, gavinc, ScottB, MacTed, danbri, davidwood, manu, NickH, manu1, yvesr_, trackbot, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, mischat, Guus, gavinc, ScottB, MacTed, danbri, davidwood, manu, NickH, manu1, yvesr_, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←
14:59:11 <davidwood> Zakim, this will be RDF
David Wood: Zakim, this will be RDF ←
14:59:11 <Zakim> ok, davidwood, I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, davidwood, I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM already started ←
14:59:23 <davidwood> Zakim, who is here?
David Wood: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:59:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus, davidwood ←
14:59:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, mischat, Guus, gavinc, ScottB, MacTed, danbri, davidwood, manu, NickH, manu1, yvesr_, trackbot, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, mischat, Guus, gavinc, ScottB, MacTed, danbri, davidwood, manu, NickH, manu1, yvesr_, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←
15:00:30 <ScottB> Zakim, Tony is temporarily me
Scott Bauer: Zakim, Tony is temporarily me ←
15:00:31 <Zakim> +ScottB; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ScottB; got it ←
15:00:40 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:00:50 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:00:50 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:00:53 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:00:53 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:00:59 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:01:04 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:01:52 <ScottB> scribe: Scott
(Scribe set to Scott Bauer)
15:02:04 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:02:04 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2 ←
15:02:11 <Zakim> +gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc ←
15:02:42 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aaaa ←
15:02:54 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aaaa is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.650.265.aaaa is me ←
15:02:55 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it ←
15:02:57 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
15:02:57 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted ←
15:03:02 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
15:03:08 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker (was ??P21)
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tom_Baker (was ??P21) ←
15:04:15 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:04:15 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:04:20 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aabb ←
15:04:32 <AlexHall> zakim, aabb is me
Alex Hall: zakim, aabb is me ←
15:04:32 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it ←
15:05:33 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:05:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, davidwood, ScottB, MacTed, EricP, Sandro, gavinc, zwu2 (muted), Tom_Baker, AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus, davidwood, ScottB, MacTed, EricP, Sandro, gavinc, zwu2 (muted), Tom_Baker, AlexHall ←
15:05:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see mischat, tbaker, AlexHall, zwu2, RRSAgent, Zakim, Guus, gavinc, ScottB, MacTed, danbri, davidwood, manu, NickH, manu1, yvesr_, trackbot, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see mischat, tbaker, AlexHall, zwu2, RRSAgent, Zakim, Guus, gavinc, ScottB, MacTed, danbri, davidwood, manu, NickH, manu1, yvesr_, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←
15:06:40 <ScottB> Topic: Meeting Minutes from April 11
15:06:49 <tbaker> +1 accept minutes
Thomas Baker: +1 accept minutes ←
15:06:53 <ScottB> Proposed: accept minutes
PROPOSED: accept minutes ←
15:07:14 <ScottB> Resolution: accept the minutes from last week.
RESOLVED: accept the minutes from last week. ←
15:07:28 <ScottB> Topic: action items
15:07:52 <ScottB> Guus: Gavin do you want to record a new issue.
Guus Schreiber: Gavin do you want to record a new issue. ←
15:08:00 <ScottB> Gavin: I'd like to but can't
Gavin Carothers: I'd like to but can't ←
15:08:18 <ScottB> Topic: Turtle LC
15:08:41 <Zakim> +??P27
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27 ←
15:08:43 <ScottB> Guus: Gavin can you comment
Guus Schreiber: Gavin can you comment ←
15:09:02 <ScottB> Gavin: I should be able to get the remainder of the minutes in my the next conference
Gavin Carothers: I should be able to get the remainder of the minutes in my the next conference ←
15:09:18 <ScottB> Guus: Just editorial comments no major new issues.
Guus Schreiber: Just editorial comments no major new issues. ←
15:09:30 <gavinc> application/n-triples vs. application/ntriples
Gavin Carothers: application/n-triples vs. application/ntriples ←
15:09:38 <ScottB> Gavin: Do we want a dash or comma in the media types?
Gavin Carothers: Do we want a dash or comma in the media types? ←
15:10:16 <ScottB> Guus: no dash you mean. that's 12.1
Guus Schreiber: no dash you mean. that's 12.1 ←
15:10:36 <ScottB> Gavin: The dashes are used like segment markers.
Gavin Carothers: The dashes are used like segment markers. ←
15:10:53 <ScottB> … not able to find languages that had dashes
… not able to find languages that had dashes ←
15:11:15 <ScottB> … we don't believe any application uses slash n-triples at the moment.
… we don't believe any application uses slash n-triples at the moment. ←
15:11:28 <ScottB> Guus: My intuition -- leave out the dash.
Guus Schreiber: My intuition -- leave out the dash. ←
15:11:46 <ScottB> Guus: Sandro can you comment.
Guus Schreiber: Sandro can you comment. ←
15:11:48 <MacTed> http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/index.html
Ted Thibodeau: http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/index.html ←
15:11:54 <gavinc> example with dash: audio/x-ms-wma application/x-gzip video/x-ms-wmv
Gavin Carothers: example with dash: audio/x-ms-wma application/x-gzip video/x-ms-wmv ←
15:12:03 <ScottB> Sandro: Maybe a dash is used like a space.
Sandro Hawke: Maybe a dash is used like a space. ←
15:12:15 <gavinc> application/x-font-ttf
Gavin Carothers: application/x-font-ttf ←
15:12:24 <sandro> http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/index.html
Sandro Hawke: http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/index.html ←
15:12:31 <ScottB> Gavin: there is no code that uses an n-triples media type.
Gavin Carothers: there is no code that uses an n-triples media type. ←
15:12:47 <ScottB> Guus: what will be easiest to remember.
Guus Schreiber: what will be easiest to remember. ←
15:13:00 <ScottB> Sandro: how do we write it in the spec.
Sandro Hawke: how do we write it in the spec. ←
15:13:12 <ScottB> Gavin: We write it with a dash.
Gavin Carothers: We write it with a dash. ←
15:13:20 <Zakim> +??P31
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31 ←
15:13:32 <ScottB> Sandro: we call it n hyphen triple
Sandro Hawke: we call it n hyphen triple ←
15:13:37 <pfps> zakim, ??P31 is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??P31 is me ←
15:13:37 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:13:56 <sandro> cwm -n-triples
Sandro Hawke: cwm -n-triples ←
15:13:57 <ScottB> Gavin: others use it without a dash. use it on the command line.
Gavin Carothers: others use it without a dash. use it on the command line. ←
15:14:00 <sandro> cwm --n-triples
Sandro Hawke: cwm --n-triples ←
15:14:01 <gavinc> cwm -ntriples
Gavin Carothers: cwm -ntriples ←
15:14:33 <PatH> Sorry Im late.
Patrick Hayes: Sorry Im late. ←
15:14:38 <ScottB> Sandro: Should use two dashes if more than one char.
Sandro Hawke: Should use two dashes if more than one char. ←
15:14:51 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:14:52 <gavinc> +0
Gavin Carothers: +0 ←
15:14:52 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:14:55 <sandro> +1 dash (mildly)
Sandro Hawke: +1 dash (mildly) ←
15:14:59 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:15:02 <ScottB> Guus: type a plus one you are in favor of the dash.
Guus Schreiber: type a plus one you are in favor of the dash. ←
15:15:06 <ericP> +1 to —
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to — ←
15:15:10 <gavinc> heh
Gavin Carothers: heh ←
15:15:26 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:15:35 <sandro> +1 to ‐
Sandro Hawke: +1 to ‐ ←
15:16:02 <gavinc> Entity 'dash' not defined ;)
Gavin Carothers: Entity 'dash' not defined ;) ←
15:16:04 <sandro> love some of these mime types, like: vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.drawingml.diagramLayout+xml
Sandro Hawke: love some of these mime types, like: vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.drawingml.diagramLayout+xml ←
15:16:31 <MacTed> ietf-types@iana.org :-)
Ted Thibodeau: ietf-types@iana.org :-) ←
15:16:41 <gavinc> RESOLVED: Use application/n-triples for content type of N-Triples
RESOLVED: Use application/n-triples for content type of N-Triples ←
15:18:50 <ericP> ACTION: ericP to send mail to ietf-types to request the media type application/n-triples
ACTION: ericP to send mail to ietf-types to request the media type application/n-triples ←
15:18:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-163 - Send mail to ietf-types to request the media type application/n-triples [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-04-25].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-163 - Send mail to ietf-types to request the media type application/n-triples [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-04-25]. ←
15:18:52 <ScottB> Guus: Part one has been covered before.
Guus Schreiber: Part one has been covered before. ←
15:19:12 <ScottB> … plan for a new draft next week.
… plan for a new draft next week. ←
15:19:20 <ScottB> Gavin: another week would be nice.
Gavin Carothers: another week would be nice. ←
15:19:59 <MacTed> ( mimetype hyphen appears likely acceptable -- http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/remote-printing )
Ted Thibodeau: ( mimetype hyphen appears likely acceptable -- http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/remote-printing ) ←
15:20:05 <ScottB> Guus: We recorded a new data 2 may for the new draft to be available
Guus Schreiber: We recorded a new date 2 may for the new draft to be available ←
15:20:16 <ScottB> s/data/date
15:20:44 <ScottB> Topic: Named graph semantics
15:21:31 <PatH> whre is that new use case mentioned?
Patrick Hayes: whre is that new use case mentioned? ←
15:21:49 <ScottB> Guus: Ask to write UC Europeana to use case page.
Guus Schreiber: Ask to write UC Europeana to use case page. ←
15:22:17 <ScottB> Sandro: I want to understand use cases as a coder. Discussion on this?
Sandro Hawke: I want to understand use cases as a coder. Discussion on this? ←
15:22:37 <ScottB> Guus: I'll ask one of the authors to join the telecom.
Guus Schreiber: I'll ask one of the authors to join the telecom. ←
15:22:49 <ScottB> Sandro: ask him to write it first.
Sandro Hawke: ask him to write it first. ←
15:23:02 <ScottB> … in something a coder can understand.
… in something a coder can understand. ←
15:23:18 <ScottB> Guus: It's an enormous amount of data.
Guus Schreiber: It's an enormous amount of data. ←
15:23:32 <ScottB> … maybe you can ask him a few questions on the list.
… maybe you can ask him a few questions on the list. ←
15:23:36 <ScottB> Sandro: ok
Sandro Hawke: ok ←
15:24:14 <ScottB> Guus: They have issues. Art work described by multiple organizations.
Guus Schreiber: They have issues. Art work described by multiple organizations. ←
15:24:43 <ScottB> subtopic: RDF with Contexts
15:24:59 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDFwithContexts
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDFwithContexts ←
15:25:00 <ScottB> Guus: Thanks to Pat for the wiki page.
Guus Schreiber: Thanks to Pat for the wiki page. ←
15:25:14 <ScottB> … We should start with QA
… We should start with QA ←
15:25:22 <ScottB> … session
… session ←
15:25:29 <davidwood> +1 to PatH for writing this up
David Wood: +1 to PatH for writing this up ←
15:26:11 <ScottB> Pat: the generalization if of something not necessarily a graph. Deliberately don't restrict the form of that document.
Patrick Hayes: the generalization if of something not necessarily a graph. Deliberately don't restrict the form of that document. ←
15:26:15 <gavinc> +1000 allowing it to be empty
Gavin Carothers: +1000 allowing it to be empty ←
15:26:30 <davidwood> +1 to allowing empties
David Wood: +1 to allowing empties ←
15:26:48 <ScottB> … agree on the meaning of the IRIs without specifying what that meaning is.
… agree on the meaning of the IRIs without specifying what that meaning is. ←
15:27:02 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
15:27:18 <Guus> ack sandro
Guus Schreiber: ack sandro ←
15:27:50 <ScottB> Sandro: when will two colleagues publishing about the same thing use IRI's in different ways.
Sandro Hawke: when will two colleagues publishing about the same thing use IRI's in different ways. ←
15:28:18 <ScottB> Pat: Data from different sources should be in diff contexts ( some have this perspective)
Patrick Hayes: Data from different sources should be in diff contexts ( some have this perspective) ←
15:28:41 <ScottB> Sandro: There is a global hypotheses,
Sandro Hawke: There is a global hypotheses, ←
15:28:54 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
15:28:59 <ScottB> Pat: RDF now accepts the global hypothesis.
Patrick Hayes: RDF now accepts the global hypothesis. ←
15:29:26 <davidwood> Accepting a local hypothesis makes *no statement* about the global hypothesis.
David Wood: Accepting a local hypothesis makes *no statement* about the global hypothesis. ←
15:29:27 <ScottB> Sandro: If the global hypothesis holds you don't need this.
Sandro Hawke: If the global hypothesis holds you don't need this. ←
15:29:42 <ScottB> Pat: Still very useful to put one context under another.
Patrick Hayes: Still very useful to put one context under another. ←
15:30:03 <ScottB> … recording this context more can be added.
… recording this context more can be added. ←
15:30:28 <ScottB> … one URI can mean progressively finer things as people add to it.
… one URI can mean progressively finer things as people add to it. ←
15:30:43 <MacTed> q+ to say the global hypothesis has been disproven already... the challenge is dealing with data that is presented as if it were valid
Ted Thibodeau: q+ to say the global hypothesis has been disproven already... the challenge is dealing with data that is presented as if it were valid ←
15:30:48 <ScottB> … even in the global hypothesis things can work this way.
… even in the global hypothesis things can work this way. ←
15:30:55 <ScottB> Sandro: an example:
Sandro Hawke: an example? ←
15:31:09 <ScottB> s/example:/example?
15:31:38 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
15:31:54 <ScottB> Pat: You might rely on a more restrictive meaning accidentally.
Patrick Hayes: You might rely on a more restrictive meaning accidentally. ←
15:31:59 <davidwood> q+ to provide other examples of violation of the global hypothesis
David Wood: q+ to provide other examples of violation of the global hypothesis ←
15:32:27 <ScottB> … easier to use the same term with some restriction.
… easier to use the same term with some restriction. ←
15:32:42 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:32:53 <Guus> ack MacTed
Guus Schreiber: ack MacTed ←
15:32:53 <Zakim> MacTed, you wanted to say the global hypothesis has been disproven already... the challenge is dealing with data that is presented as if it were valid
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, you wanted to say the global hypothesis has been disproven already... the challenge is dealing with data that is presented as if it were valid ←
15:33:09 <ScottB> Ted: the global hypothesis is the ideal but most are not living by it. Local is the way things are.
Ted Thibodeau: the global hypothesis is the ideal but most are not living by it. Local is the way things are. ←
15:33:57 <ScottB> … it has been disproven. Giving up is appropriate. Lots of data is produced based on it. we have to deal with it.
… it has been disproven. Giving up is appropriate. Lots of data is produced based on it. we have to deal with it. ←
15:34:05 <ericP> i'm not sure why I use terms like foaf:name if they mean different things to different people
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'm not sure why I use terms like foaf:name if they mean different things to different people ←
15:34:09 <ericP> what's the point of RDF anyways?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: what's the point of RDF anyways? ←
15:34:24 <ScottB> Sandro: The same URI is supposed to mean something different for the two us?
Sandro Hawke: The same URI is supposed to mean something different for the two us? ←
15:34:50 <ScottB> Ted: We may both be wrong. This is the case with owl:sambas.
Ted Thibodeau: We may both be wrong. This is the case with owl:sameas. ←
15:34:51 <sandro> q>
Sandro Hawke: q> ←
15:34:52 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:35:11 <ScottB> s/owl:sambas/owl:sameas
15:35:15 <Guus> ack davidwood
Guus Schreiber: ack davidwood ←
15:35:15 <Zakim> davidwood, you wanted to provide other examples of violation of the global hypothesis
Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, you wanted to provide other examples of violation of the global hypothesis ←
15:35:16 <pfps> how is owl:sameAs broken???
Peter Patel-Schneider: how is owl:sameAs broken??? ←
15:35:23 <ScottB> david: I agree with Ted:
David Wood: I agree with Ted: ←
15:35:23 <sandro> sandro: The way to get the genie back in the bottle is Running Code. We'll get there some day.
Sandro Hawke: The way to get the genie back in the bottle is Running Code. We'll get there some day. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:35:58 <Guus> I think the poinnt ewas not that owl:sameAs is broken, just the way it is used
Guus Schreiber: I think the poinnt ewas not that owl:sameAs is broken, just the way it is used ←
15:36:09 <ScottB> … Data from the data web shoved into a triple store. Using these I use some and pretend others don't exist.
… Data from the data web shoved into a triple store. Using these I use some and pretend others don't exist. ←
15:36:34 <ScottB> … you're overriding data that you choose.
… you're overriding data that you choose. ←
15:36:46 <Guus> q+
Guus Schreiber: q+ ←
15:36:48 <ScottB> Sandro: Give an example:
Sandro Hawke: Give an example: ←
15:36:54 <ericP> q?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q? ←
15:36:57 <Guus> q+ to give an example
Guus Schreiber: q+ to give an example ←
15:37:29 <ScottB> David: Import from DBpedia. RDF label in a dozen langs. I strip some or all and replace while reusing the rest of the triples.
David Wood: Import from DBpedia. RDF label in a dozen langs. I strip some or all and replace while reusing the rest of the triples. ←
15:38:02 <ScottB> Sandro: Global, when you see rdf: label you know what it meant.
Sandro Hawke: Global, when you see rdf: label you know what it meant. ←
15:38:21 <ScottB> Sandro: Would the new label to be true?
Sandro Hawke: Would the new label to be true? ←
15:38:40 <ScottB> David: I think so. I'm gong to make it up or do what I want.
David Wood: I think so. I'm gong to make it up or do what I want. ←
15:38:57 <ScottB> Sandro: That doesn't mean you disagree with the use of the word.
Sandro Hawke: That doesn't mean you disagree with the use of the word. ←
15:39:19 <ScottB> Pat: I think you are right but how do you tell the difference.
Patrick Hayes: I think you are right but how do you tell the difference. ←
15:39:40 <ericP> q+ to ask how we bridge from conventional RDF to a local hypothesis RDF
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask how we bridge from conventional RDF to a local hypothesis RDF ←
15:39:43 <ScottB> Sandro: You can handle all in the first possiblity.
Sandro Hawke: You can handle all in the first possiblity. ←
15:40:03 <davidwood> What do you mean by "God"?
David Wood: What do you mean by "God"? ←
15:40:45 <ScottB> Pat: You are presenting an extreme local view.
Patrick Hayes: You are presenting an extreme local view. ←
15:41:00 <ScottB> Sandro: how can there be a middle ground?
Sandro Hawke: how can there be a middle ground? ←
15:41:21 <Guus> ack EricP
Guus Schreiber: ack EricP ←
15:41:21 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask how we bridge from conventional RDF to a local hypothesis RDF
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask how we bridge from conventional RDF to a local hypothesis RDF ←
15:41:38 <sandro> sandro: Any time you think you belong on the same island, then you could both use the same URI in the global-hypothesis world.
Sandro Hawke: Any time you think you belong on the same island, then you could both use the same URI in the global-hypothesis world. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:41:41 <ScottB> Eric: What mechanism will allow me to merge rdf graphs.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: What mechanism will allow me to merge rdf graphs. ←
15:42:10 <ScottB> … how would localities agree on how subjects or predicates mean the same thing.
… how would localities agree on how subjects or predicates mean the same thing. ←
15:42:40 <ScottB> … once the locality is introduced does it require more rigor to make the query.
… once the locality is introduced does it require more rigor to make the query. ←
15:43:27 <ScottB> Pat: A context must be agreed on for a given group.
Patrick Hayes: A context must be agreed on for a given group. ←
15:43:53 <ScottB> Sandro: If a larger group -- do they add another context URI.
Sandro Hawke: If a larger group -- do they add another context URI. ←
15:44:15 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:44:28 <ScottB> Ted: There's a lot of data out there without context.
Ted Thibodeau: There's a lot of data out there without context. ←
15:44:50 <Guus> q-
Guus Schreiber: q- ←
15:45:02 <ScottB> … we'll have to deal with the fact that it is produced in one context and used in another.
… we'll have to deal with the fact that it is produced in one context and used in another. ←
15:45:10 <ScottB> … The assumption is a dirty merge.
… The assumption is a dirty merge. ←
15:45:37 <sandro> q+ to say people can be wrong, people can be talking about different points in time, people can be talking about imagined universes, yes. But we can't just give up on the global hypothesis.
Sandro Hawke: q+ to say people can be wrong, people can be talking about different points in time, people can be talking about imagined universes, yes. But we can't just give up on the global hypothesis. ←
15:45:40 <ScottB> … global does not work because we don't have a clean, solid reference of what that is.
… global does not work because we don't have a clean, solid reference of what that is. ←
15:45:51 <davidwood> ..and the dirty merge is a feature, not a bug. It is critical to the flexibility of RDF.
David Wood: ..and the dirty merge is a feature, not a bug. It is critical to the flexibility of RDF. ←
15:46:08 <ScottB> Pat: If people pretend it does. It will go on as before.
Patrick Hayes: If people pretend it does. It will go on as before. ←
15:46:40 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
15:46:40 <ScottB> … choice can be made to put them into contexts. Just put inheritance tags in place.
… choice can be made to put them into contexts. Just put inheritance tags in place. ←
15:46:48 <Guus> ack sandro
Guus Schreiber: ack sandro ←
15:46:49 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to say people can be wrong, people can be talking about different points in time, people can be talking about imagined universes, yes. But we can't just give
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to say people can be wrong, people can be talking about different points in time, people can be talking about imagined universes, yes. But we can't just give ←
15:46:49 <Zakim> ... up on the global hypothesis.
Zakim IRC Bot: ... up on the global hypothesis. ←
15:47:31 <ScottB> Sandro: Anybody who wants to merge with someone else's data has to have a special agreement.
Sandro Hawke: Anybody who wants to merge with someone else's data has to have a special agreement. ←
15:48:00 <ScottB> Pat: Tell the world that they have to be careful, so they can check to see if their data is consistant.
Patrick Hayes: Tell the world that they have to be careful, so they can check to see if their data is consistant. ←
15:49:16 <ScottB> Sandro: Vocabularies can allow mix of 14 different properties.
Sandro Hawke: Vocabularies can allow mix of 14 different properties. ←
15:50:10 <ScottB> Pat: a Large ontology has used this successfully. You don't get exponential explosions. They resolved ambiguities by introducing contexts.
Patrick Hayes: a Large ontology has used this successfully. You don't get exponential explosions. They resolved ambiguities by introducing contexts. ←
15:50:58 <ScottB> … they introduced a relationship of covering.
… they introduced a relationship of covering. ←
15:51:27 <ScottB> … these things have something in common as defined by a top context.
… these things have something in common as defined by a top context. ←
15:51:55 <ScottB> Sandro: Theres a super property coving the different senses.
Sandro Hawke: Theres a super property coving the different senses. ←
15:52:35 <ScottB> Pat: A change in context shifts vocabulary meaning.
Patrick Hayes: A change in context shifts vocabulary meaning. ←
15:52:38 <ScottB> S
S ←
15:53:04 <ScottB> Sandro: that makes a lot of sense from an NLP perspective.
Sandro Hawke: that makes a lot of sense from an NLP perspective. ←
15:53:28 <pfps> I'm still having a hard time figuring out just why contexts should become part of RDF.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm still having a hard time figuring out just why contexts should become part of RDF. ←
15:53:33 <ScottB> … concerned about what it means in publishing RDF graphs, because you don't know the vocabulary.
… concerned about what it means in publishing RDF graphs, because you don't know the vocabulary. ←
15:53:49 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
15:54:02 <ScottB> Pat: It should be used in a context that changes meaning intended.
Patrick Hayes: It should be used in a context that changes meaning intended. ←
15:54:25 <ScottB> Sandro: a little can be done in existing OWL.
Sandro Hawke: a little can be done in existing OWL. ←
15:54:49 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
15:55:08 <ScottB> … a person has a bunch of properties. A person is a professor, there is new meaning. OWL reasoning understands that.
… a person has a bunch of properties. A person is a professor, there is new meaning. OWL reasoning understands that. ←
15:55:53 <ScottB> Pat: You can do things like age changes.
Patrick Hayes: You can do things like age changes. ←
15:56:20 <ScottB> Sandro: I'm concerned about vocabularies changing meanings arbitrarily.
Sandro Hawke: I'm concerned about vocabularies changing meanings arbitrarily. ←
15:56:36 <ericP> +1 to "Hieronymus Bosch" description
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to "Hieronymus Bosch" description ←
15:57:02 <ScottB> Ted: Meanings are going to shift regardless.
Ted Thibodeau: Meanings are going to shift regardless. ←
15:57:56 <ScottB> Ted: AAA means this is going to happen.
Ted Thibodeau: AAA means this is going to happen. ←
15:58:53 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
15:59:01 <pfps> zakim, ??p26 is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??p26 is me ←
15:59:01 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:59:16 <ScottB> Eric: Introducing of islands of data that I don't trust. No force will stop people from stopping RDF used as now.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Introducing of islands of data that I don't trust. No force will stop people from stopping RDF used as now. ←
16:00:13 <ScottB> … semantics entails new use cans but the complexity doesn't motivate use.
… semantics entails new use cans but the complexity doesn't motivate use. ←
16:00:24 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
16:00:41 <ScottB> … I don't seem context as being marketable.
… I don't seem context as being marketable. ←
16:00:53 <ScottB> Pat: It's just one new RDF relation.
Patrick Hayes: It's just one new RDF relation. ←
16:01:28 <ScottB> Sandro: Everyone in a given group could give a context.
Sandro Hawke: Everyone in a given group could give a context. ←
16:01:51 <ScottB> Eric: Adding contexts gets too complicated.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Adding contexts gets too complicated. ←
16:02:24 <Guus> Pat: more than 1 context probably means union (not intersection)
Patrick Hayes: more than 1 context probably means union (not intersection) [ Scribe Assist by Guus Schreiber ] ←
16:02:45 <ScottB> … many people want to share terms, there is a transitive connection. Two predicates written by different people and a third connects them.
… many people want to share terms, there is a transitive connection. Two predicates written by different people and a third connects them. ←
16:03:50 <ScottB> Ted: A wrong word meaning can be wrapped. Code can swap it out.
Ted Thibodeau: A wrong word meaning can be wrapped. Code can swap it out. ←
16:04:28 <ScottB> Sandro: this doesn't solve change over time by itself.
Sandro Hawke: this doesn't solve change over time by itself. ←
16:05:22 <ScottB> Pat: Change over time can be described as an updating of a concept. The old terminology continues in use but is updated.
Patrick Hayes: Change over time can be described as an updating of a concept. The old terminology continues in use but is updated. ←
16:05:25 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
16:05:41 <ScottB> … all you have to do is invent a context and insert old stuff.
… all you have to do is invent a context and insert old stuff. ←
16:06:20 <ScottB> Sandro: How is this different from changing the URI to point to new data.
Sandro Hawke: How is this different from changing the URI to point to new data. ←
16:06:59 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is here? ←
16:06:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, davidwood, ScottB, MacTed, EricP, Sandro, Tom_Baker, AlexHall, ??P27, pfps, PatH, pfps.a
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus, davidwood, ScottB, MacTed, EricP, Sandro, Tom_Baker, AlexHall, ??P27, pfps, PatH, pfps.a ←
16:07:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see PatH, pfps, Souri, mischat, tbaker, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, Guus, gavinc, ScottB, MacTed, danbri, davidwood, manu, NickH, manu1, yvesr_, trackbot, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see PatH, pfps, Souri, mischat, tbaker, AlexHall, RRSAgent, Zakim, Guus, gavinc, ScottB, MacTed, danbri, davidwood, manu, NickH, manu1, yvesr_, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←
16:07:14 <ScottB> Eric: If the graph is sealed, a snapshot is in order.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: If the graph is sealed, a snapshot is in order. ←
16:07:32 <ScottB> … we
… we ←
16:07:59 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
16:08:15 <ScottB> Pat: No one is saying you have to stop what you are doing.
Patrick Hayes: No one is saying you have to stop what you are doing. ←
16:08:29 <ScottB> … mends some things that are currently broken.
… mends some things that are currently broken. ←
16:09:08 <Guus> q+
Guus Schreiber: q+ ←
16:09:11 <ScottB> Sandro: If you want to say that two graphs can be merged using this context. It means it can't be done otherwise.
Sandro Hawke: If you want to say that two graphs can be merged using this context. It means it can't be done otherwise. ←
16:09:32 <ScottB> … seems like it can't be otherwise.
… seems like it can't be otherwise. ←
16:10:01 <ScottB> Pat: the current RDF semantics are the default.
Patrick Hayes: the current RDF semantics are the default. ←
16:10:38 <ScottB> … if you assert in the context, you are being careful. Otherwise URI's are just URI's.
… if you assert in the context, you are being careful. Otherwise URI's are just URI's. ←
16:11:24 <ScottB> Eric: What it does is it takes the private, illegal formats are being brought into a set of rules where they are.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: What it does is it takes the private, illegal formats are being brought into a set of rules where they are. ←
16:11:27 <sandro> sandro: IF it's stated clearly enough that rdf:inherits is a way to OPT OUT of the global hypothesis, then I think this is an okay experment, and harmless.
Sandro Hawke: IF it's stated clearly enough that rdf:inherits is a way to OPT OUT of the global hypothesis, then I think this is an okay experment, and harmless. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:11:29 <ScottB> ... legal.
... legal. ←
16:12:07 <ScottB> Pat: It lets inferior uses into the public.
Patrick Hayes: It lets inferior uses into the public. ←
16:12:10 <sandro> sandro: So this is a sort of Amnesty proposal.
Sandro Hawke: So this is a sort of Amnesty proposal. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:13:08 <ScottB> Sandro: I'm ok with this as long as RDF inheritance as a way to opt out is clear.
Sandro Hawke: I'm ok with this as long as RDF inheritance as a way to opt out is clear. ←
16:14:17 <sandro> sandro: So this doesn't really solve the owl:sameAs problem.....
Sandro Hawke: So this doesn't really solve the owl:sameAs problem..... [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:14:20 <ScottB> … (correction) the default is a way to opt out of the RDF inheritance.
… (correction) the default is a way to opt out of the RDF inheritance. ←
16:14:52 <ScottB> David: what should the default be.
David Wood: what should the default be. ←
16:15:25 <ScottB> Sandro: the namespace document needs to opt in.
Sandro Hawke: the namespace document needs to opt in. ←
16:15:50 <ScottB> Eric: updating the namespace documents is onerous.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: updating the namespace documents is onerous. ←
16:16:20 <ScottB> David: there will still be unintentional differences.
David Wood: there will still be unintentional differences. ←
16:17:26 <Zakim> -??P27
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P27 ←
16:17:27 <ScottB> Zakim, who is here
Zakim, who is here ←
16:17:27 <Zakim> ScottB, you need to end that query with '?'
Zakim IRC Bot: ScottB, you need to end that query with '?' ←
16:17:35 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
16:17:37 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:17:38 <sandro> sandro: (switching sides) There's a strong case to be made that people who really mean their RDF, and really read the ontology documentaiton, might opt into that.
Sandro Hawke: (switching sides) There's a strong case to be made that people who really mean their RDF, and really read the ontology documentaiton, might opt into that. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:17:39 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:17:43 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
16:17:44 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:17:45 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:18:06 <davidwood> I don't think *anyone* doesn't mean their RDF.
David Wood: I don't think *anyone* doesn't mean their RDF. ←
16:18:15 <MacTed> and then... the ontology on which they based their RDF gets redefined.
Ted Thibodeau: and then... the ontology on which they based their RDF gets redefined. ←
16:18:22 <MacTed> uh oh!
Ted Thibodeau: uh oh! ←
16:18:30 <davidwood> Some people just make bad RDF - by my (or others) definition.
David Wood: Some people just make bad RDF - by my (or others) definition. ←
16:19:07 <ScottB> rrsagent, generate the minutes
rrsagent, generate the minutes ←
16:19:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-rdf-wg-minutes.html ScottB
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-rdf-wg-minutes.html ScottB ←
16:21:20 <ScottB> rrsagent, publish the minutes
rrsagent, publish the minutes ←
16:21:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-rdf-wg-minutes.html ScottB
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-rdf-wg-minutes.html ScottB ←
16:25:00 <ScottB> rrsagent, make logs public
rrsagent, make logs public ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2012-04-18 16:39:26 UTC by 'sbauer2', comments: "I removed a couple of lines that the parser didn't recognize that were logins for Tony(me), pfps(Peter) and Tom_Baker(Thomas) It didn't affect the attendee list. Corrected a typo."