RDF Working Group

Minutes of 22 June 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.22#Graphs
Seen
Alex Hall, Antoine Zimmermann, David Wood, Fabien Gandon, Gavin Carothers, Guus Schreiber, Ian Davis, Lee Feigenbaum, Mischa Tuffield, Nicholas Humfrey, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Richard Cyganiak, Sandro Hawke, Scott Bauer, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Ted Thibodeau, Zhe Wu
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions

None.

Topics
15:03:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-irc

15:03:18 <NickH> zakim, code?

Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, code?

15:03:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), NickH

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), NickH

15:04:04 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:04:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps (muted), davidwood, Guus, Sandro, gavinc, PatHayes, AZ (muted), pchampin (muted), cygri, Scott_Bauer (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps (muted), davidwood, Guus, Sandro, gavinc, PatHayes, AZ (muted), pchampin (muted), cygri, Scott_Bauer (muted)

15:04:22 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me

15:04:22 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted

15:04:46 <Guus> sandro is trying to fix it, pls waita little bit

Guus Schreiber: sandro is trying to fix it, pls waita little bit

15:04:51 <zwu2> still gets conference is restricted,

Zhe Wu: still gets conference is restricted,

15:05:59 <MacTed> Zakim, code?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, code?

15:05:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MacTed

15:06:00 <sandro> ZAKIM PROBLEMS -- PLEASE BE PATIENT

Sandro Hawke: ZAKIM PROBLEMS -- PLEASE BE PATIENT

15:07:41 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call?

15:07:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, davidwood, Guus, Sandro, gavinc, PatHayes, AZ (muted), pchampin (muted), cygri, Scott_Bauer (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, davidwood, Guus, Sandro, gavinc, PatHayes, AZ (muted), pchampin (muted), cygri, Scott_Bauer (muted)

15:07:53 <sandro> zakim, room for 30 for 90 minutes?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, room for 30 for 90 minutes?

15:07:55 <Zakim> ok, sandro; conference Team_(rdf-wg)15:07Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 90 minutes until 1637Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; conference Team_(rdf-wg)15:07Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 90 minutes until 1637Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked

15:08:12 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:08:17 <Zakim> -Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus

15:08:20 <Zakim> -cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri

15:08:22 <Zakim> -PatHayes

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatHayes

15:08:23 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer

Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott_Bauer

15:08:28 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

15:08:39 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

15:08:39 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

15:08:44 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

15:08:48 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

15:08:50 <sandro> zakim, who is here?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is here?

15:08:51 <Zakim> T&S_(RDFWG)10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_(RDFWG)10:00AM has ended

15:08:55 <Zakim> Attendees were Souri, pfps, davidwood, +1.310.729.aaaa, kasei, +1.540.841.aabb, Sandro, pgearon, gavinc, MattPerry, yvesr, chimezie, Guus, pchampin, cygri, PatHayes, AZ, bglimm,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Souri, pfps, davidwood, +1.310.729.aaaa, kasei, +1.540.841.aabb, Sandro, pgearon, gavinc, MattPerry, yvesr, chimezie, Guus, pchampin, cygri, PatHayes, AZ, bglimm,

15:08:59 <Zakim> ... Scott_Bauer

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Scott_Bauer

15:09:01 <Zakim> apparently T&S_(RDFWG)10:00AM has ended, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: apparently T&S_(RDFWG)10:00AM has ended, sandro

15:09:03 <MacTed> Zakim, this is 26631

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, this is 26631

15:09:07 <sandro> zakim, who is here?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is here?

15:09:11 <Zakim> ok, MacTed; that matches Team_(rdf-wg)15:07Z

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, MacTed; that matches Team_(rdf-wg)15:07Z

15:09:13 <Zakim> +davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood

15:09:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, OpenLink_Software, Scott_Bauer, PatHayes, davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, OpenLink_Software, Scott_Bauer, PatHayes, davidwood

15:09:19 <Zakim> +mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas

15:09:21 <Zakim> +Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus

15:09:23 <Zakim> +AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ

15:09:23 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: RDF-WG weekly meeting - DIFFERENT CODE TODAY: 26631, Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.11

Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: RDF-WG weekly meeting - DIFFERENT CODE TODAY: 26631, Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.11

15:09:23 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: RDF-WG weekly meeting - DIFFERENT CODE TODAY: 26631, Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.11

Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: RDF-WG weekly meeting - DIFFERENT CODE TODAY: 26631, Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.11

15:09:25 <Zakim> +gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc

15:09:25 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:09:27 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:09:28 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:09:28 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me

15:09:29 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:09:31 <Zakim> +cygri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it

15:09:36 <Zakim> + +44.752.594.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.752.594.aaaa

15:09:57 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy?

15:10:05 <Guus> zakim, who is here?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here?

15:10:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, MacTed (muted), Scott_Bauer, PatHayes, davidwood, cygri, Guus, AZ, gavinc, +44.752.594.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, MacTed (muted), Scott_Bauer, PatHayes, davidwood, cygri, Guus, AZ, gavinc, +44.752.594.aaaa

15:10:06 <AZ> zakim, mute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me

15:10:07 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted

15:10:09 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: cygri (54%)

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: cygri (54%)

15:10:11 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24

15:10:12 <Zakim> +pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps

15:10:20 <mischat> zakim, ??P24 is me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P24 is me

15:10:20 <Zakim> +mischat; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mischat; got it

15:10:24 <mischat> zakim, mute me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, mute me

15:10:24 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat should now be muted

15:10:38 <iand> zakim, +44.752.594.aaaa is me

Ian Davis: zakim, +44.752.594.aaaa is me

15:10:38 <Zakim> +iand; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +iand; got it

15:10:40 <Zakim> +??P25

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25

15:10:46 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P25 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P25 is me

15:10:46 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

15:10:47 <Guus> zakim code is 26631

Guus Schreiber: zakim code is 26631

15:10:56 <zwu2> zakim, code?

Zhe Wu: zakim, code?

15:10:56 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), zwu2

15:11:24 <Zakim> +AlexHall

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall

15:11:34 <Guus> zakim, unmute me

Guus Schreiber: zakim, unmute me

15:11:34 <Zakim> Guus was not muted, Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: Guus was not muted, Guus

15:11:37 <Zakim> +Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri

15:11:48 <Zakim> + +1.408.642.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.642.aabb

15:11:51 <Guus> zakim, who is here?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here?

15:11:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, MacTed (muted), Scott_Bauer, PatHayes, davidwood, cygri, Guus, AZ (muted), gavinc, iand, mischat (muted), pfps, SteveH, AlexHall, Souri, +1.408.642.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, MacTed (muted), Scott_Bauer, PatHayes, davidwood, cygri, Guus, AZ (muted), gavinc, iand, mischat (muted), pfps, SteveH, AlexHall, Souri, +1.408.642.aabb

15:11:55 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

15:12:00 <zwu2> zakim, +1.408.642.aabb is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.408.642.aabb is me

15:12:00 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it

15:12:02 <NickH> Zakim, ??P21 is me

Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, ??P21 is me

15:12:02 <Zakim> +NickH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it

15:12:06 <zwu2> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

15:12:06 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted

15:12:09 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

15:12:22 <pchampin> zakim, ??P15 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P15 is me

15:12:23 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

15:12:28 <PatHayes> I seem to be.

Patrick Hayes: I seem to be.

15:13:08 <PatHayes> accept minutes of 15 june telcon...

Patrick Hayes: accept minutes of 15 june telcon...

15:13:09 <pfps> minutes look OK to me

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes look OK to me

15:13:13 <PatHayes> no objections

Patrick Hayes: no objections

15:13:25 <PatHayes> resolved.

Patrick Hayes: resolved.

15:13:42 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer?

15:13:42 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-irc#T15-13-42

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-irc#T15-13-42

15:14:25 <PatHayes> I cant see that page, FWIW.

Patrick Hayes: I cant see that page, FWIW.

15:15:16 <Zakim> +FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon

15:15:19 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public

Ted Thibodeau: RRSAgent, make logs public

15:15:45 <MacTed> PatHayes, mischat - try again

Ted Thibodeau: PatHayes, mischat - try again

15:16:06 <pchampin> in progress

Pierre-Antoine Champin: in progress

15:16:18 <PatHayes> still getting 403 error

Patrick Hayes: still getting 403 error

15:17:18 <PatHayes> scribe cannot hear speaker.

Patrick Hayes: scribe cannot hear speaker.

15:17:34 <pchampin> pchampin: I have a draft that I will post to the RDF-WG mailing list

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I have a draft that I will post to the RDF-WG mailing list [ Scribe Assist by Pierre-Antoine Champin ]

15:17:55 <mischat> that was pchampin stating that he would email this list with a draft of RDF-WG's comments for the SPARQL-WG

Mischa Tuffield: that was pchampin stating that he would email this list with a draft of RDF-WG's comments for the SPARQL-WG

15:18:45 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.22

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.22

15:19:32 <PatHayes> guus: lets look at the second group of graph issues.

Guus Schreiber: lets look at the second group of graph issues. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:19:47 <PatHayes> no objections.

Patrick Hayes: no objections.

15:20:53 <PatHayes> issue 15.

Patrick Hayes: ISSUE-15.

15:20:54 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/15

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/15

15:20:58 <sandro> issue-15?

Sandro Hawke: ISSUE-15?

15:20:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-15 -- What is the relationship between the IRI and the triples in a dataset/quad-syntax/etc -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-15 -- What is the relationship between the IRI and the triples in a dataset/quad-syntax/etc -- open

15:20:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/15

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/15

15:21:23 <davidwood> q+ to ask whether we should also address Turtle QNames alignment with SPARQL prefixed names?

David Wood: q+ to ask whether we should also address Turtle QNames alignment with SPARQL prefixed names?

15:22:24 <davidwood> q-

David Wood: q-

15:23:04 <PatHayes> sandro: person sees a quads document or sparql store, what is 'association' between IRI and a graph? Application-dependent?

Sandro Hawke: person sees a quads document or sparql store, what is 'association' between IRI and a graph? Application-dependent? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:23:16 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:23:24 <PatHayes> sandro: or IRI *identifies* the g-box or g-snap?

Sandro Hawke: or IRI *identifies* the g-box or g-snap? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:23:24 <SteveH> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:23:51 <Guus> ack cygri

Guus Schreiber: ack cygri

15:24:37 <PatHayes> cygri: suggest to first think about constraints on what we can do, before getting into details. We can't damage sparql.

Richard Cyganiak: suggest to first think about constraints on what we can do, before getting into details. We can't damage sparql. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:25:07 <pchampin> q+ to comment on cygri's remark

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+ to comment on cygri's remark

15:25:12 <PatHayes> cygri: propose we don't constrain the meaning of association.

Richard Cyganiak: propose we don't constrain the meaning of association. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:25:14 <Guus> ack SteveH

Guus Schreiber: ack SteveH

15:25:25 <davidwood> gavinc, thanks

David Wood: gavinc, thanks

15:25:32 <Guus> ack pchampin

Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin

15:25:33 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to comment on cygri's remark

Zakim IRC Bot: pchampin, you wanted to comment on cygri's remark

15:25:44 <PatHayes> SteveH: agree with Richard, counterprodutive to try to constrain it.

Steve Harris: agree with Richard, counterprodutive to try to constrain it. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:25:57 <pchampin> I agree with Richard and Steve

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I agree with Richard and Steve

15:26:13 <sandro> q+ to disagree   :-)

Sandro Hawke: q+ to disagree :-)

15:26:16 <pchampin> but I'm concerned about SPARQL using the term "identify" for the relation btw the graph and the IRI

Pierre-Antoine Champin: but I'm concerned about SPARQL using the term "identify" for the relation btw the graph and the IRI

15:26:39 <pchampin> even if Pat makes a difference btw "naming" and "identifying"

Pierre-Antoine Champin: even if Pat makes a difference btw "naming" and "identifying"

15:26:45 <pchampin> I'm affraid not everyone does

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I'm affraid not everyone does

15:26:45 <Guus> ack sandro

Guus Schreiber: ack sandro

15:26:45 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to disagree   :-)

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to disagree :-)

15:27:11 <pchampin> @cygri, well the SPARQL HTTP protocol we discussed a moment ago does a lot

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @cygri, well the SPARQL HTTP protocol we discussed a moment ago does a lot

15:27:37 <Guus> do we agree that SPARQL only talks about relation between IRI and *g-box*?!

Guus Schreiber: do we agree that SPARQL only talks about relation between IRI and *g-box*?!

15:27:49 <PatHayes> sandro: yes, sparql is out there, cannot change implementations. But users think of IRI as identifying the graph. sparql syntax suggests this. WOuldnt break anything to say that this is the 'name' of a g-box.

Sandro Hawke: yes, sparql is out there, cannot change implementations. But users think of IRI as identifying the graph. sparql syntax suggests this. WOuldnt break anything to say that this is the 'name' of a g-box. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:28:14 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:28:40 <Guus> ack cygri

Guus Schreiber: ack cygri

15:28:42 <PatHayes> sandro: good design practice to encourage propoer name use.

Sandro Hawke: good design practice to encourage propoer name use. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:28:57 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

15:29:21 <Guus> [welcome, Lee. Sorry, we had to change the Zakim code]

Guus Schreiber: [welcome, Lee. Sorry, we had to change the Zakim code]

15:29:46 <LeeF> [I never remember it anyway, so no worries :-) ]

Lee Feigenbaum: [I never remember it anyway, so no worries :-) ]

15:29:56 <PatHayes> cygri: prefer to rephrase differently. You have an RDF document, to put it into a store then the URI of it is used as its name, is normal: but other ideas are not abuse. Need to phrase carefully.

Richard Cyganiak: prefer to rephrase differently. You have an RDF document, to put it into a store then the URI of it is used as its name, is normal: but other ideas are not abuse. Need to phrase carefully. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:30:00 <sandro> cygri: you fetch a foaf file, you store the triples in an end point with the retrival URI as the "graph name".    is that abuse?

Richard Cyganiak: you fetch a foaf file, you store the triples in an end point with the retrival URI as the "graph name". is that abuse? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:30:06 <SteveH> +1 to cygri

Steve Harris: +1 to cygri

15:30:17 <PatHayes> q+

Patrick Hayes: q+

15:30:25 <SteveH> +0.5 maybe, it's not neccesarily a good idea

Steve Harris: +0.5 maybe, it's not neccesarily a good idea

15:30:32 <pchampin> and btw, your copy of the foaf file in your datastore is not the same g-box as the foaf file, so it should not be named the same as the foaf file

Pierre-Antoine Champin: and btw, your copy of the foaf file in your datastore is not the same g-box as the foaf file, so it should not be named the same as the foaf file

15:30:33 <SteveH> q+ to clarify

Steve Harris: q+ to clarify

15:30:39 <Guus> ack PatHayes

Guus Schreiber: ack PatHayes

15:30:40 <LeeF> +1 to cygri

Lee Feigenbaum: +1 to cygri

15:30:42 <pchampin> so even Richard's example would be bad practice according to Sandro

Pierre-Antoine Champin: so even Richard's example would be bad practice according to Sandro

15:31:42 <sandro> PatHayes: i think SPARQL conceives of the association, the linke between the name and the thing named, is part of the construct.  the name is sort of unique,  by different name, it would be a different named-graph.

Patrick Hayes: i think SPARQL conceives of the association, the linke between the name and the thing named, is part of the construct. the name is sort of unique, by different name, it would be a different named-graph. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:31:49 <LeeF> When we incorporate data from the Web into Anzo stores (rare, but we do it sometimes), we sometimes use the retrieval URI for the name of the graph, and other times use a totally different graph name... really depends on the intended use case for us

Lee Feigenbaum: When we incorporate data from the Web into Anzo stores (rare, but we do it sometimes), we sometimes use the retrieval URI for the name of the graph, and other times use a totally different graph name... really depends on the intended use case for us

15:32:01 <Guus> ack SteveH

Guus Schreiber: ack SteveH

15:32:01 <Zakim> SteveH, you wanted to clarify

Zakim IRC Bot: SteveH, you wanted to clarify

15:32:26 <sandro> ... so if we want to avoid that tight association, we should avoid the term "name"

Sandro Hawke: ... so if we want to avoid that tight association, we should avoid the term "name"

15:32:32 <cygri> q+ not to get hung up on words like "named". what matters is the actual definition

Richard Cyganiak: q+ not to get hung up on words like "named". what matters is the actual definition

15:32:50 <PatHayes> steveH: dont feel so strongly about saying Wrong.

Steve Harris: dont feel so strongly about saying Wrong. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:33:09 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:33:15 <PatHayes> steveH: exact terminology not so important as being clear on intention.

Steve Harris: exact terminology not so important as being clear on intention. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:33:40 <cygri> q-

Richard Cyganiak: q-

15:34:00 <PatHayes> Guus: different name means different g-box? Need to be clear.

Guus Schreiber: different name means different g-box? Need to be clear. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:34:06 <sandro> queue=sandro

Sandro Hawke: queue=sandro

15:34:13 <PatHayes> SteveH: not issue for me.

Steve Harris: not issue for me. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:35:00 <cygri> q+ to say that there are no trig documents on the web

Richard Cyganiak: q+ to say that there are no trig documents on the web

15:35:09 <PatHayes> sandro: we should talk about trig(?) Want a standard notion of how IRIs are assocaited with texts.

Sandro Hawke: we should talk about Trig Want a standard notion of how IRIs are assocaited with texts. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:35:23 <sandro> ack sandro

Sandro Hawke: ack sandro

15:35:26 <pchampin> s/trig(?)/Trig/
15:35:26 <Guus> ack cygri

Guus Schreiber: ack cygri

15:35:26 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to say that there are no trig documents on the web

Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to say that there are no trig documents on the web

15:35:29 <iand> q+ what is the role of "follow your nose" principle in named graph IRIs?

Ian Davis: q+ what is the role of "follow your nose" principle in named graph IRIs?

15:35:33 <PatHayes> cygri: not obvious to me.

Richard Cyganiak: not obvious to me. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:35:34 <zwu2> sandro, is that problem only relevant to TriG?

Zhe Wu: sandro, is that problem only relevant to TriG?

15:35:42 <iand> q+ to say what is the role of "follow your nose" principle in named graph IRIs?

Ian Davis: q+ to say what is the role of "follow your nose" principle in named graph IRIs?

15:36:04 <sandro> q+ to address provenance use case

Sandro Hawke: q+ to address provenance use case

15:36:18 <PatHayes> cygri: it is an open issue, putting multigraph docs on the web. We have to be careful.

Richard Cyganiak: it is an open issue, putting multigraph docs on the web. We have to be careful. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:36:27 <iand> ok

Ian Davis: ok

15:36:44 <AZ> cygri, there *are* multiple-graph documents on the Web in the form of NQuads

Antoine Zimmermann: cygri, there *are* multiple-graph documents on the Web in the form of NQuads

15:36:54 <Guus> ack iand

Guus Schreiber: ack iand

15:36:54 <Zakim> iand, you wanted to say what is the role of "follow your nose" principle in named graph IRIs?

Zakim IRC Bot: iand, you wanted to say what is the role of "follow your nose" principle in named graph IRIs?

15:37:09 <iand> my question is as above: does follow your nose have any bearing?

Ian Davis: my question is as above: does follow your nose have any bearing?

15:37:16 <zwu2> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

15:37:19 <PatHayes> iand: what is role of Folloowyournose principle in graph naming?

Ian Davis: what is role of Folloowyournose principle in graph naming? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:37:25 <zwu2> zakim, unmute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, unmute me

15:37:25 <Zakim> zwu2 should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should no longer be muted

15:37:37 <Guus> ack sandro

Guus Schreiber: ack sandro

15:37:37 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to address provenance use case

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to address provenance use case

15:38:18 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:38:20 <Guus> ack zwu

Guus Schreiber: ack zwu

15:38:21 <SteveH> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:38:23 <PatHayes> sandro: to Richard, re. use cases. Want to be able to say, xxx said these triples, for example. This is what reification was for, and we are deprecating that. Need sopme principled way to make the association.

Sandro Hawke: to Richard, re. use cases. Want to be able to say, xxx said these triples, for example. This is what reification was for, and we are deprecating that. Need sopme principled way to make the association. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:38:33 <PatHayes> who is speakinmg?

Patrick Hayes: who is speakinmg?

15:38:38 <sandro> zwu2,

Sandro Hawke: zwu2,

15:38:44 <pfps> I am starting to worry that we are verging on something very strong here, which doesn't appear to match the abilities of RDF.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I am starting to worry that we are verging on something very strong here, which doesn't appear to match the abilities of RDF.

15:38:52 <Guus> zhe wu is speaking

Guus Schreiber: zhe wu is speaking

15:38:59 <PatHayes> zwu2: to sandro, is this relvant only to TriG, or also NQuad?

Zhe Wu: to sandro, is this relvant only to TriG, or also NQuad? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:39:05 <PatHayes> Sandro: all of them.

Sandro Hawke: all of them. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:39:17 <sandro> it's relevant to all of them

Sandro Hawke: it's relevant to all of them

15:39:23 <Guus> ack cygri

Guus Schreiber: ack cygri

15:39:32 <SteveH> <statement1> { <> :saidBy <sandro> . ... }

Steve Harris: <statement1> { <> :saidBy <sandro> . ... }

15:39:34 <sandro> (sorry, phone problem.)

Sandro Hawke: (sorry, phone problem.)

15:40:03 <PatHayes> cygri: easy to fix. Just say 'saidBy'

Richard Cyganiak: easy to fix. Just say 'saidBy' [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:40:30 <PatHayes> sandro: this implies that object of saidBy is name of the graph/g-box. HOw do we know this?

Sandro Hawke: this implies that object of saidBy is name of the graph/g-box. HOw do we know this? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:40:38 <Guus> ack SteveH

Guus Schreiber: ack SteveH

15:40:52 <PatHayes> cygri: need not answer these questions.

Richard Cyganiak: need not answer these questions. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:41:18 <PatHayes> SteveH: typing down the graph/IRI relation does not matter.

Steve Harris: typing down the graph/IRI relation does not matter. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:41:21 <PatHayes> q+

Patrick Hayes: q+

15:41:34 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:41:44 <PatHayes> sandro: how can we tuie the IRI in the triple to the actual graph?

Sandro Hawke: how can we tuie the IRI in the triple to the actual graph? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:41:52 <PatHayes> tuie/tie

Patrick Hayes: tuie/tie

15:42:03 <Guus> q?

Guus Schreiber: q?

15:42:15 <Guus> ack PatHayes

Guus Schreiber: ack PatHayes

15:42:17 <PatHayes> SteveH: but that is just true.

Steve Harris: but that is just true. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:43:17 <SteveH> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:43:20 <pchampin> q+

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+

15:43:25 <Guus> ack cygri

Guus Schreiber: ack cygri

15:43:26 <sandro> PatHayes: weigh in on Sandro's side...   if you use a URI in a triple, to refer to a graph, there is nothing in RDF to actually tie a URI to a graph.   There's nothing in the semantics, etc.   If it's completely open, there's no connection.  We have to provide something to tie them.    otherwise, your triple can mean anything, too.

Patrick Hayes: weigh in on Sandro's side... if you use a URI in a triple, to refer to a graph, there is nothing in RDF to actually tie a URI to a graph. There's nothing in the semantics, etc. If it's completely open, there's no connection. We have to provide something to tie them. otherwise, your triple can mean anything, too. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:43:50 <sandro> cygri: i don't buy that.    we have these pairs of IRI+Graph in the data model, that ties them.

Richard Cyganiak: i don't buy that. we have these pairs of IRI+Graph in the data model, that ties them. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:44:04 <PatHayes> cygri: I don't buy that. If we have IRI/graph pairs in the data model, then that ties them.

Richard Cyganiak: I don't buy that. If we have IRI/graph pairs in the data model, then that ties them. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:44:14 <SteveH> q-

Steve Harris: q-

15:44:33 <pchampin> ack me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: ack me

15:44:41 <Guus> ack pchampin

Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin

15:44:45 <pchampin> I'm not sure I understand Richard's andswer

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I'm not sure I understand Richard's andswer

15:44:57 <pchampin> I agree with Pat: if we want to talk about graphs

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I agree with Pat: if we want to talk about graphs

15:45:06 <pchampin> we need a way to strictly name them

Pierre-Antoine Champin: we need a way to strictly name them

15:45:14 <pchampin> the problem is: currents practices

Pierre-Antoine Champin: the problem is: currents practices

15:45:22 <pchampin> with SPARQL, and possibly Ttric

Pierre-Antoine Champin: with SPARQL, and possibly trig

15:45:24 <sandro> pchampin: If we want to talk about graphs, we need a way to strictly name them.      the problem is current practice with SPARQL.

Pierre-Antoine Champin: If we want to talk about graphs, we need a way to strictly name them. the problem is current practice with SPARQL. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:45:34 <pchampin> s/Ttric/trig
15:45:42 <pchampin> current practices are loose

Pierre-Antoine Champin: current practices are loose

15:45:51 <pchampin> and it looks like a bad idea to override them

Pierre-Antoine Champin: and it looks like a bad idea to override them

15:46:13 <PatHayes> Guus: there are 2 schools of thought. Guidelines for usage?

Guus Schreiber: there are 2 schools of thought. Guidelines for usage? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:46:30 <PatHayes> sandro: that is not sufficient.

Sandro Hawke: that is not sufficient. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:46:36 <PatHayes> pat agrees.

Patrick Hayes: pat agrees.

15:46:56 <pchampin> I think we should find a way to reconcile current loose practices with the requirement of strictly naming graphs/g-boxes

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I think we should find a way to reconcile current loose practices with the requirement of strictly naming graphs/g-boxes

15:47:15 <PatHayes> These guidelines need to cover more than sparql. OWL and RIf and ... will also want to talk about grpahs.

Patrick Hayes: These guidelines need to cover more than sparql. OWL and RIf and ... will also want to talk about grpahs.

15:47:23 <SteveH> how can you even tell if they have the "right" property?

Steve Harris: how can you even tell if they have the "right" property?

15:47:26 <cygri> q+ to ask what sort of tight binding sandro and PatH have in mind

Richard Cyganiak: q+ to ask what sort of tight binding sandro and PatH have in mind

15:47:30 <PatHayes> Guus: hard to get backward copmpatibility.

Guus Schreiber: hard to get backward copmpatibility. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:47:52 <PatHayes> sandro: everyone using a URI is 'bad' ways will be 'worng' But htat only amtters when we do inferences.

Sandro Hawke: everyone using a URI is 'bad' ways will be 'worng' But htat only amtters when we do inferences. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:48:02 <PatHayes> htat/that

Patrick Hayes: htat/that

15:48:23 <sandro> sandro: it's like all the bad owl:sameAs triples out there....         graph-uris being person-URIs are like that.

Sandro Hawke: it's like all the bad owl:sameAs triples out there.... graph-uris being person-URIs are like that. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:48:34 <PatHayes> cygri: what kind of tight binding IRI/graph do sandro and Pat have in mind?

Richard Cyganiak: what kind of tight binding IRI/graph do sandro and Pat have in mind? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:48:52 <PatHayes> sandro: I dont have a firm proposal.

Sandro Hawke: I dont have a firm proposal. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:49:12 <PatHayes> sandro: it ought to be the URI of the g-box, as in sparql.

Sandro Hawke: it ought to be the URI of the g-box, as in sparql. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:49:21 <gavinc> an owl:import imports an owl:Ontology, if your using an SPARQL database, and that owl:Ontology is defined in 3 named graphs one of which is named the same as the owl:import object... is that the one you import? Do you import all 3? OWL seems to say all 3. I assure you, that's -not- what we do :D

Gavin Carothers: an owl:import imports an owl:Ontology, if your using an SPARQL database, and that owl:Ontology is defined in 3 named graphs one of which is named the same as the owl:import object... is that the one you import? Do you import all 3? OWL seems to say all 3. I assure you, that's -not- what we do :D

15:49:29 <SteveH> I'm formly opposed to anything that talks about dereferencing URIs and g-boxes

Steve Harris: I'm formly opposed to anything that talks about dereferencing URIs and g-boxes

15:49:47 <SteveH> *firmly

Steve Harris: *firmly

15:49:48 <AlexHall> +1 SteveH

Alex Hall: +1 SteveH

15:49:50 <SteveH> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:49:54 <cygri> ack cygri

Richard Cyganiak: ack cygri

15:49:54 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to ask what sort of tight binding sandro and PatH have in mind

Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to ask what sort of tight binding sandro and PatH have in mind

15:49:59 <PatHayes> Guus: sandro's def is purely operational?

Guus Schreiber: sandro's def is purely operational? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:50:13 <PatHayes> sandro: no, operational can be should or just left open.

Sandro Hawke: no, operational can be should or just left open. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:50:15 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:50:26 <PatHayes> q+

Patrick Hayes: q+

15:50:48 <sandro> sandro: all we have to say is This IRI does Identify this g-box.

Sandro Hawke: all we have to say is This IRI does Identify this g-box. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:50:54 <Guus> ack SteveH

Guus Schreiber: ack SteveH

15:51:09 <Souri> q+ to say: As a user of SPARQL, we tend to informally assume a, possibly many-to-one, association between <graph_IRI> and a g-snap (set of triples).

Souripriya Das: q+ to say: As a user of SPARQL, we tend to informally assume a, possibly many-to-one, association between <graph_IRI> and a g-snap (set of triples).

15:51:25 <PatHayes> SteveH: concerened that "identify" is loaded, not sure of this. In our systems we have +++ graphs with URIs, but htey are opaque. Don;t want to publish locations.

Steve Harris: concerened that "identify" is loaded, not sure of this. In our systems we have +++ graphs with URIs, but htey are opaque. Don;t want to publish locations. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:51:34 <Guus> ack cygri

Guus Schreiber: ack cygri

15:51:35 <sandro> SteveH:In our systems we have very large number of URIs which can't be derefd.   we don't particularly want to allow deref, esp with provenance.

Steve Harris: In our systems we have very large number of URIs which can't be derefd. we don't particularly want to allow deref, esp with provenance. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:52:06 <PatHayes> cygri: concerned that sandro is asking for somthjing difficult. NOtion of g-box is new in RDF.

Richard Cyganiak: concerned that sandro is asking for somthjing difficult. NOtion of g-box is new in RDF. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:52:26 <PatHayes> cygri: time-dependence will be a challenge to get it right.

Richard Cyganiak: time-dependence will be a challenge to get it right. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:52:33 <sandro> cygri:Sandro, what you're asking for is quite difficult.  The notion of g-box doesnt exist in RDF right now.  And the difference between g-box and g-snap ... time variance ...rather challenging to add.   Might be a good idea, but hard.

Richard Cyganiak: Sandro, what you're asking for is quite difficult. The notion of g-box doesnt exist in RDF right now. And the difference between g-box and g-snap ... time variance ...rather challenging to add. Might be a good idea, but hard. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:52:55 <sandro> cygri: Right now, RDF doesn't say anything about dereference.

Richard Cyganiak: Right now, RDF doesn't say anything about dereference. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:52:58 <PatHayes> cygri: nothing in RDF about dereferncing model anywhere.

Richard Cyganiak: nothing in RDF about dereferncing model anywhere. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:53:06 <Guus> q?

Guus Schreiber: q?

15:53:39 <PatHayes> cygri: leave this open.

Richard Cyganiak: leave this open. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:53:41 <pchampin> @cygri resources *are* time-variant in web architecture - however, I agree, RDF doesn't say anything about deference, and shouldn't

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @cygri resources *are* time-variant in web architecture - however, I agree, RDF doesn't say anything about deference, and shouldn't

15:53:47 <sandro> cygri: You're suggesting to pull those down into the specs, from best pracfice -- that concerns me.

Richard Cyganiak: You're suggesting to pull those down into the specs, from best pracfice -- that concerns me. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:54:09 <Souri> q-

Souripriya Das: q-

15:54:38 <sandro> PatHayes: There should be some kind of "baptism" to name a g-box on the web.    Maybe my deref, better by something explicit.

Patrick Hayes: There should be some kind of "baptism" to name a g-box on the web. Maybe my deref, better by something explicit. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:54:53 <pchampin> +1 to pathayes

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 to pathayes

15:55:08 <pchampin> and Trig "<g> {... }" should not be it

Pierre-Antoine Champin: and Trig "<g> {... }" should not be it

15:55:31 <LeeF> What if I have a g-box whose name is <urn:i:am:not:dereferenceable> and want to put _that_ guy on the Web?

Lee Feigenbaum: What if I have a g-box whose name is <urn:i:am:not:dereferenceable> and want to put _that_ guy on the Web?

15:55:36 <PatHayes> sandro: I hear you, Richard. This might be too hard to get done.

Sandro Hawke: I hear you, Richard. This might be too hard to get done. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:55:57 <PatHayes> Go ahead, Lee. As long as it is YOURS.

Patrick Hayes: Go ahead, Lee. As long as it is YOURS.

15:55:57 <pchampin> @LeeF then mint a http URI for it; a g-box may have several URIs

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @LeeF then mint a http URI for it; a g-box may have several URIs

15:56:04 <pchampin> (anything can)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: (anything can)

15:56:12 <Souri> +1 to opposing deref of graph IRIs

Souripriya Das: +1 to opposing deref of graph IRIs

15:56:22 <LeeF> PatHayes, pchampin, I see, thanks

Lee Feigenbaum: PatHayes, pchampin, I see, thanks

15:56:27 <cygri> minimum proposal: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal

Richard Cyganiak: minimum proposal: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal

15:57:54 <PatHayes> guus: right now it is in terms of g-box, should we separate this from g-snap?

Guus Schreiber: right now it is in terms of g-box, should we separate this from g-snap? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:58:10 <PatHayes> cygri: not sure about g-box still.

Richard Cyganiak: not sure about g-box still. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:58:36 <davidwood> I don't agree with Richard's contention that time invariance isn't currently in RDF or WebArch.  WebArch, for example, clearly says "the server sends back a message containing what it determines to be a representation of the resource *as of the time* that representation was generated." (emphasis mine)

David Wood: I don't agree with Richard's contention that time invariance isn't currently in RDF or WebArch. WebArch, for example, clearly says "the server sends back a message containing what it determines to be a representation of the resource *as of the time* that representation was generated." (emphasis mine)

15:58:48 <pchampin> @cygcri, the thing behing a GRAPH IRI in SPARQL UPDATE would be a g-box (imho)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @cygcri, the thing behing a GRAPH IRI in SPARQL UPDATE would be a g-box (imho)

15:58:49 <davidwood> RDF inherits that notion.

David Wood: RDF inherits that notion.

15:58:50 <cygri> davidwood, it's nowhere in RDF

Richard Cyganiak: davidwood, it's nowhere in RDF

15:58:56 <pchampin> or an RDF document in my public_html

Pierre-Antoine Champin: or an RDF document in my public_html

15:59:02 <PatHayes> sandro: want a falsifiable statement out there, tyoping the name to the graph.

Sandro Hawke: want a falsifiable statement out there, tyoping the name to the graph. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:59:13 <PatHayes> tyoping/tyuping

Patrick Hayes: tyoping/tyuping

15:59:21 <PatHayes> tying, aaaargh

Patrick Hayes: tying, aaaargh

16:00:06 <PatHayes> cygri: this is super-hard. Need a proposal which we can see.

Richard Cyganiak: this is super-hard. Need a proposal which we can see. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:00:16 <sandro> cygri: Sandro, what you're trying to do with provenance -- with falseifiable stamtenets -- that's hard.   Good luck.

Richard Cyganiak: Sandro, what you're trying to do with provenance -- with falseifiable stamtenets -- that's hard. Good luck. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:00:18 <PatHayes> Its not that hard, Richard. We already did it.

Patrick Hayes: Its not that hard, Richard. We already did it.

16:00:28 <PatHayes> :-)

Patrick Hayes: :-)

16:01:25 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/RDF-Datasets-Proposal

16:01:38 <sandro> PatHayes: our paper on Named Graphs solves this.

Patrick Hayes: our paper on Named Graphs solves this. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:03:03 <mischat> pat's proposal from a few years back http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1741344

Mischa Tuffield: pat's proposal from a few years back http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1741344

16:03:18 <mischat> PatHayes: please confirm ^^

Patrick Hayes: please confirm ^^ [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:03:55 <mischat> pat confirmed that a simplification of the above paper would be sufficient to solve the issue at hand

Mischa Tuffield: pat confirmed that a simplification of the above paper would be sufficient to solve the issue at hand

16:03:58 <PatHayes> Yes, confirm.

Patrick Hayes: Yes, confirm.

16:04:39 <PatHayes> sandro: involve provenance WG?

Sandro Hawke: involve provenance WG? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:04:47 <PatHayes> Might be useful.

Patrick Hayes: Might be useful.

16:05:07 <mischat> link to pat's paper which isn't behind a paywall : http://www.websemanticsjournal.org/index.php/ps/article/download/76/74

Mischa Tuffield: link to pat's paper which isn't behind a paywall : http://www.websemanticsjournal.org/index.php/ps/article/download/76/74

16:05:11 <PatHayes> Guus will contact Paul

Patrick Hayes: Guus will contact Paul

16:05:38 <gavinc> www2005.org/cdrom/docs/p613.pdf same document direct to PDF

Gavin Carothers: www2005.org/cdrom/docs/p613.pdf same document direct to PDF

16:06:27 <PatHayes> Action: Sandro and Pat to consider what words to add to minimal proposal.

ACTION: Sandro and Pat to consider what words to add to minimal proposal.

16:06:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - And Pat to consider what words to add to minimal proposal. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-06-29].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-65 - And Pat to consider what words to add to minimal proposal. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-06-29].

16:06:39 <PatHayes> whoops.

Patrick Hayes: whoops.

16:07:03 <PatHayes> so, sandro has action to kick my ass.

Patrick Hayes: so, sandro has action to kick my ass.

16:07:25 <PatHayes> action: Guus to contact Paul

ACTION: Guus to contact Paul

16:07:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-66 - Contact Paul  [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-06-29].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-66 - Contact Paul [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-06-29].

16:08:23 <cygri> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.22#Graphs
16:08:27 <mischat> i fear that not constraining the Graph IRI to be a uri of a document, we will end up people people being quintuple stores ...

Mischa Tuffield: i fear that not constraining the Graph IRI to be a uri of a document, we will end up with people building quintuple stores ...

16:08:49 <mischat> s/we will end up people people being quintuple stores/we will end up with people building quintuple stores/
16:09:17 <sandro> mischat, what would be the elements of the quint?

Sandro Hawke: mischat, what would be the elements of the quint?

16:09:18 <PatHayes> I personally am at least a penta store, myself.

Patrick Hayes: I personally am at least a penta store, myself.

16:09:30 <sandro> issue-32?

Sandro Hawke: ISSUE-32?

16:09:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- Can we identify both g-boxes and g-snaps? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-32 -- Can we identify both g-boxes and g-snaps? -- open

16:09:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/32

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/32

16:09:34 <PatHayes> issue-32 for next time.

Patrick Hayes: ISSUE-32 for next time.

16:09:52 <PatHayes> guus: issue 32 for next consideration.

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-32 for next consideration. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:09:54 <mischat> sandro: well if the quad isn't the document URI, then the quint will end up being the document URI ....

Mischa Tuffield: sandro, well if the quad isn't the document URI, then the quint will end up being the document URI ....

16:10:06 <mischat> s/sandro:/sandro,/
16:10:35 <PatHayes> davidwood: we have some comments, and a requirement to respond to those.

David Wood: we have some comments, and a requirement to respond to those. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:10:53 <PatHayes> davidwood: need some attention.

David Wood: need some attention. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:11:27 <PatHayes> guus: volunteers to draft response?

Guus Schreiber: volunteers to draft response? [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:11:35 <cygri> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2011Jun/0000.html

Richard Cyganiak: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2011Jun/0000.html

16:11:36 <PatHayes> David volunteered.

Patrick Hayes: David volunteered.

16:11:57 <PatHayes> davidwood: we need a process to track these and responses.

David Wood: we need a process to track these and responses. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:12:04 <PatHayes> +100 to david.

Patrick Hayes: +100 to david.

16:12:25 <PatHayes> sandro?

Patrick Hayes: sandro?

16:12:59 <PatHayes> guus: start tracking later, not now. Sandro sounds tired.

Guus Schreiber: start tracking later, not now. Sandro sounds tired. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:13:09 <sandro> :-)

Sandro Hawke: :-)

16:13:26 <PatHayes> guus: propose we start tracking later. USe actions for now.

Guus Schreiber: propose we start tracking later. USe actions for now. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

16:14:42 <LeeF> I can chair next week

Lee Feigenbaum: I can chair next week

16:14:47 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

16:14:55 <sandro> (regrets for next week.....       At kickoff of Gov Linked Data WG)

Sandro Hawke: (regrets for next week..... At kickoff of Gov Linked Data WG)

16:15:12 <PatHayes> No chairs, no sandro...

Patrick Hayes: No chairs, no sandro...

16:16:06 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

16:16:10 <AZ> bye

Antoine Zimmermann: bye

16:16:10 <Zakim> -FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon

16:16:10 <Zakim> -NickH

Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH

16:16:12 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

16:16:12 <pchampin> bye

Pierre-Antoine Champin: bye

16:16:14 <Zakim> -cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri

16:16:16 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

16:16:18 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:16:18 <PatHayes> has the scribe any more tasks to do at this point?

Patrick Hayes: has the scribe any more tasks to do at this point?

16:16:20 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

16:16:22 <Zakim> -iand

Zakim IRC Bot: -iand

16:16:24 <Zakim> -AlexHall

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall

16:16:26 <Zakim> -SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH

16:16:28 <Zakim> -mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: -mischat

16:16:30 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

16:16:32 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer

Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott_Bauer

16:16:34 <Zakim> -PatHayes

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatHayes

16:16:38 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

16:16:49 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

16:16:51 <Guus> Pat, let me look up the command to make the minutes, I always forget

Guus Schreiber: Pat, let me look up the command to make the minutes, I always forget

16:17:21 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

16:17:37 <PatHayes> where are you looking this up, BTW? I seem to not have the permissions to see this (?)

Patrick Hayes: where are you looking this up, BTW? I seem to not have the permissions to see this (?)

16:17:56 <PatHayes> zakim, make minutes

Patrick Hayes: zakim, make minutes

16:17:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', PatHayes

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'make minutes', PatHayes

16:18:19 <PatHayes> zakim, why am I not surprised?

Patrick Hayes: zakim, why am I not surprised?

16:18:19 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, PatHayes.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, PatHayes.

16:18:27 <AlexHall> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html

Alex Hall: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html

16:18:37 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting

Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting

16:18:37 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

16:18:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, Scott_Bauer, PatHayes, davidwood, Guus, AZ, gavinc, MacTed, cygri, pfps, mischat, iand, SteveH, AlexHall, Souri, zwu2, NickH,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, Scott_Bauer, PatHayes, davidwood, Guus, AZ, gavinc, MacTed, cygri, pfps, mischat, iand, SteveH, AlexHall, Souri, zwu2, NickH,

16:18:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:18:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

16:18:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

16:18:39 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :

16:18:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sandro and Pat to consider what words to add to minimal proposal. [1]

ACTION: Sandro and Pat to consider what words to add to minimal proposal. [1]

16:18:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-irc#T16-06-27

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-irc#T16-06-27

16:18:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to contact Paul  [2]

ACTION: Guus to contact Paul [2]

16:18:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-irc#T16-07-25

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-rdf-wg-irc#T16-07-25

16:18:40 <davidwood> Pat, see the following:

David Wood: Pat, see the following:

16:18:41 <Zakim> ... pchampin, FabGandon, LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: ... pchampin, FabGandon, LeeF

16:18:43 <davidwood> Tracker, http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

David Wood: Tracker, http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#2) generated 2011-07-06 15:09:28 UTC by 'gcarothe3', comments: 'Quick and dirty edit'