IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-12-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:02:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:02:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-irc
16:02:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
16:02:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
16:02:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:02:15 [trackbot]
Date: 08 December 2011
16:02:47 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-a11y
16:02:50 [MichaelC]
zakim, this is 2119
16:02:58 [MichaelC]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:05 [JF]
JF has joined #html-a11y
16:03:17 [Zakim]
ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
16:03:18 [kford]
kford has joined #html-a11y
16:03:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Foliot, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], ??P20
16:03:34 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P20 is Michael_Cooper
16:03:41 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:03:42 [MichaelC]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:53 [Zakim]
+??P24
16:03:59 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P24 is Janina_Sajka
16:04:24 [MichaelC]
zakim, Microsoft.a is Kelly_Ford
16:04:25 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper; got it
16:04:30 [MichaelC]
zakim, Microsoft is Paul_Cotton
16:04:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Foliot, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ??P24
16:04:51 [janina]
janina has joined #html-a11y
16:04:58 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
16:05:04 [JAllan]
JAllan has joined #html-a11y
16:05:08 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:11 [Zakim]
+Kelly_Ford; got it
16:05:17 [Zakim]
+Paul_Cotton; got it
16:05:25 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
16:06:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John_Foliot, Paul_Cotton, Kelly_Ford, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina_Sajka, Jim_Allan
16:06:46 [Stevef]
Stevef has joined #html-a11y
16:07:02 [MichaelC]
scribe: MichaelC
16:07:24 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:07:31 [MichaelC]
zakim, IPcaller is Léonie_Watson
16:07:56 [Zakim]
+Léonie_Watson; got it
16:08:04 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
16:08:05 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
16:08:05 [janina]
Scribe:
16:08:05 [janina]
agenda+ canvas Issue-131 CP Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Dec/0085.html
16:08:05 [janina]
agenda+ Drag and Drop
16:08:05 [janina]
agenda+ review some RESOLVED/NEEDSINFO LC a11y bugs: http://goo.gl/J7WnX
16:08:06 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:08:07 [janina]
agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; ARIA Mapping; Text; Media
16:08:09 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
16:08:11 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:08:13 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe for 15 December http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:08:15 [janina]
agenda+ be done
16:08:17 [janina]
16:08:31 [richardschwerdtfe]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline
16:08:32 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
16:08:44 [MichaelC]
zakim, Ipcaller is probably Steve_Faulkner
16:08:44 [Zakim]
+Steve_Faulkner?; got it
16:09:10 [MichaelC]
agenda?
16:09:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
http://dev.w3.org/html5/2dcontext/#text
16:09:22 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
16:09:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "canvas Issue-131 CP Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Dec/0085.html" taken up [from janina]
16:09:48 [MichaelC]
rs: multiple baselines
16:09:50 [MichaelC]
see above link
16:10:01 [MichaelC]
which led to confusion
16:10:18 [MichaelC]
clarifying which baseline has cleared up issue
16:10:32 [MichaelC]
pc: trying to repoen issue because disagree with decision, or providing new information?
16:10:35 [MichaelC]
rs: new information
16:10:59 [MichaelC]
previous change proposal turned out not to have enough detail
16:11:04 [MichaelC]
because wasn't clear in spec
16:11:34 [MichaelC]
pc: wondering if this is so chairs will continue dialogue with editor
16:11:56 [MichaelC]
js: by picking a specific baseline, it's not unclear so easier to discuss around
16:12:19 [MichaelC]
rs: Maciej requested a diff between change proposals, have provided one
16:13:26 [MichaelC]
pc: so need TF endorsement, then official sending to chair
16:13:42 [MichaelC]
js: any objection to forwarding?
16:14:23 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
16:14:43 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
16:16:00 [MichaelC]
RESOLUTION: forward change proposal at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline to HTML WG chairs (cc HTML WG) with note it reopens HTML-ISSUE-131
16:16:32 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
16:16:32 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Drag and Drop" taken up [from janina]
16:17:13 [MichaelC]
js: asked Jim, Kelly, Everett to join call to discuss this
16:17:51 [MichaelC]
jf: Everett put out some questions about drag and drop
16:17:55 [MichaelC]
didn't get feedback
16:17:55 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Nov/0155.html
16:18:11 [LeonieW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Nov/0155.html
16:18:54 [MichaelC]
js: should these questions be addressed by HTML, or by User Agent Accessibility Guidelines?
16:19:05 [MichaelC]
ja: thought this was covered in keyboard access part of UAAG
16:19:38 [MichaelC]
under principle that everything you can do with a mouse you can do with a keyboard
16:19:50 [MichaelC]
has been demonstrated doable
16:20:01 [MichaelC]
and browser could handle it
16:20:07 [MichaelC]
cs: are there examples and techniques?
16:20:10 [MichaelC]
ja: we could add some
16:20:28 [MichaelC]
kf: that seems accurate summary of situation
16:21:14 [MichaelC]
mc: need a specific methodology for drag and drop with keyboard
16:21:22 [MichaelC]
browsers won't "just know" how to do it
16:21:29 [MichaelC]
UAAG techniques could describe this
16:22:03 [MichaelC]
ja: yes, can do in UAAG techniques since UAAG has the requirement
16:22:35 [MichaelC]
jf: questions about user interaction rules specified in HTML
16:22:51 [MichaelC]
ja: that should be fleshed out in HTML 5 and then UAAG can reflect
16:23:07 [MichaelC]
kf: like having the guidance in HTML 5 because higher visibility; UAAG can supplement
16:23:17 [MichaelC]
jf: think there are good questions in Everett's message
16:23:24 [MichaelC]
attempting to escalate review of this...
16:24:41 [MichaelC]
e.g., question 3 on img and a elements are draggable by default, are there ARIA features that should also be draggable?
16:24:52 [MichaelC]
js: that is for sure an HTML 5 question
16:25:00 [richardschwerdtfe]
brb
16:25:07 [MichaelC]
are there any UAAG quetsions?
16:25:14 [MichaelC]
kf: these really seem like HTML 5 questions
16:25:22 [MichaelC]
jf: so what's next step?
16:25:36 [MichaelC]
file bugs? note clock is ticking
16:25:39 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:26:00 [Zakim]
+Judy
16:26:36 [MichaelC]
lw: though first two issues were duplicates of bug 8800
16:26:52 [MichaelC]
sf: so need to review outcome of that bug
16:27:09 [MichaelC]
lw: or push on that
16:27:47 [MichaelC]
js: if we tell Everett we support his analysis and think it should get escalated through existing and new bugs
16:28:42 [MichaelC]
pc: HTML 5 editor looking both at Last Call bugs, and post-LC bugs
16:29:01 [MichaelC]
these might get looked at in soonish timeframe, though we don't have a mechanism to guarantee
16:29:21 [MichaelC]
providing motivating case for problem and explicit change proposal likely to help with processing
16:29:57 [MichaelC]
js: asks JF to coordinate with Everett, Jim, Kelly on moving this forward
16:30:13 [MichaelC]
ja: will look at UAAG overlap
16:30:26 [MichaelC]
also will look into voice navigation aspect
16:32:16 [MichaelC]
lw: Everett has content knowledge but needs process support from us
16:33:18 [MichaelC]
js: support looking at keyboard, voice, and other device-independence use cases
16:33:37 [MichaelC]
hope Independent User Interface will generacise the problem
16:34:08 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/2011/11/indie-ui-charter
16:34:45 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
16:34:45 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "review some RESOLVED/NEEDSINFO LC a11y bugs: http://goo.gl/J7WnX" taken up [from janina]
16:35:43 [MichaelC]
pc: HTML 5 is processing bugs rapidly
16:36:41 [MichaelC]
jb: including those set to needsinfo, wontfix, etc.?
16:36:49 [MichaelC]
pc: includes all states
16:38:20 [MichaelC]
count is down to 30, editor doing a lot of work on them for 31 Dec deadline
16:38:33 [MichaelC]
based on numbers of escalations, not everyone agreeing with dispositions
16:38:49 [Judy]
q+
16:38:52 [Stevef]
q+
16:38:52 [MichaelC]
chairs are issuing calls for change proposals in response to these
16:38:54 [MichaelC]
ack
16:39:03 [MichaelC]
ack j
16:39:33 [MichaelC]
jb: a week ago numbers in various categories were higher
16:40:19 [MichaelC]
if more marked as wontfix etc. we have higher workload to process those
16:41:07 [MichaelC]
sf: <missed>
16:41:18 [MichaelC]
pc: for 31 Dec editor will push bug count on his plate to 0
16:41:35 [MichaelC]
for 13 Jan, we have deadline to escalate any we disagree with
16:41:59 [MichaelC]
helpful to provide evidence before 31 Dec particularly for needsinfo
16:42:16 [janina]
q?
16:42:16 [Judy]
s/including those set to needsinfo, wontfix, etc/including those set to won't fix, worksforme, etc/
16:42:22 [janina]
ack st
16:42:52 [MichaelC]
you can see accelerated bug processing
16:43:12 [MichaelC]
sf: what is status of issues that have been queuing up?
16:43:41 [MichaelC]
pc: have been focusing on unblocking HTML 5 and canvas publication
16:44:01 [MichaelC]
so that's priority
16:44:17 [MichaelC]
chairs are about to release review of one of the HTML-ISSUE-30 change proposals
16:44:19 [Judy]
q+
16:44:46 [MichaelC]
ack j
16:45:19 [Stevef]
q+
16:45:26 [MichaelC]
jb: see a bigger workload in front of us, or timing over holidays tight
16:46:00 [MichaelC]
pc: well, it's better than editor working on his deadline the day before
16:46:31 [MichaelC]
jb: for messaging, should be clear it's editor resolutions, not WG resolutions
16:47:34 [MichaelC]
pc: chairs not planning specific messaging
16:48:11 [MichaelC]
js: so for needsinfo, we want to provide the info, so they don't languish un-updated
16:50:27 [MichaelC]
mc: think there are new needsinfo bugs that need taking owners
16:53:14 [MichaelC]
<more discussion on messaging>
16:53:32 [MichaelC]
<discussion on handling bugs as they get processed>
16:53:34 [Judy]
ack j
16:53:42 [MichaelC]
ack s
16:54:12 [MichaelC]
sf: there are two reopen requests that need info from JS
16:54:22 [MichaelC]
js: yes, let's talk to get that
16:58:02 [Zakim]
-Kelly_Ford
16:58:09 [Stevef]
just resolved needsinfo bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11956
16:58:20 [paulc]
I have leave for the WG call since I am chairing today.
16:58:36 [Zakim]
-Paul_Cotton
16:59:08 [Zakim]
-Steve_Faulkner?
17:01:24 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
17:01:42 [Zakim]
-Léonie_Watson
17:01:46 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
17:01:48 [Zakim]
-Judy
17:01:50 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
17:01:52 [Zakim]
-John_Foliot
17:01:56 [Zakim]
-Janina_Sajka
17:02:18 [Zakim]
-Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:02:19 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
17:02:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were John_Foliot, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Kelly_Ford, Paul_Cotton, Jim_Allan, Léonie_Watson, Cynthia_Shelly, Steve_Faulkner?, Judy
18:39:05 [Stevef]
Stevef has joined #html-a11y
20:16:19 [MichaelC]
trackbot, end meeting
20:16:19 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
20:16:19 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
20:16:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:16:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html trackbot
20:16:21 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
20:16:21 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
20:18:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
20:18:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-irc
20:18:14 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:18:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
20:18:29 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, bye
20:18:37 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
20:18:39 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, bye
20:18:39 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items