IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-12-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:02:10 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-irc
- 16:02:12 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 16:02:14 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 2119
- 16:02:15 [trackbot]
- Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 16:02:15 [trackbot]
- Date: 08 December 2011
- 16:02:47 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #html-a11y
- 16:02:50 [MichaelC]
- zakim, this is 2119
- 16:02:58 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:03:05 [JF]
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- 16:03:17 [Zakim]
- ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
- 16:03:18 [kford]
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- 16:03:27 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see John_Foliot, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], ??P20
- 16:03:34 [MichaelC]
- zakim, ??P20 is Michael_Cooper
- 16:03:41 [Zakim]
- +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 16:03:42 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:03:53 [Zakim]
- +??P24
- 16:03:59 [MichaelC]
- zakim, ??P24 is Janina_Sajka
- 16:04:24 [MichaelC]
- zakim, Microsoft.a is Kelly_Ford
- 16:04:25 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Cooper; got it
- 16:04:30 [MichaelC]
- zakim, Microsoft is Paul_Cotton
- 16:04:33 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see John_Foliot, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ??P24
- 16:04:51 [janina]
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- 16:04:58 [Zakim]
- +Janina_Sajka; got it
- 16:05:04 [JAllan]
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- 16:05:08 [janina]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:05:11 [Zakim]
- +Kelly_Ford; got it
- 16:05:17 [Zakim]
- +Paul_Cotton; got it
- 16:05:25 [Zakim]
- +Jim_Allan
- 16:06:07 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see John_Foliot, Paul_Cotton, Kelly_Ford, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina_Sajka, Jim_Allan
- 16:06:46 [Stevef]
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- 16:07:02 [MichaelC]
- scribe: MichaelC
- 16:07:24 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:07:31 [MichaelC]
- zakim, IPcaller is Léonie_Watson
- 16:07:56 [Zakim]
- +Léonie_Watson; got it
- 16:08:04 [janina]
- Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
- 16:08:05 [janina]
- Chair: Janina_Sajka
- 16:08:05 [janina]
- Scribe:
- 16:08:05 [janina]
- agenda+ canvas Issue-131 CP Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Dec/0085.html
- 16:08:05 [janina]
- agenda+ Drag and Drop
- 16:08:05 [janina]
- agenda+ review some RESOLVED/NEEDSINFO LC a11y bugs: http://goo.gl/J7WnX
- 16:08:06 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:08:07 [janina]
- agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; ARIA Mapping; Text; Media
- 16:08:09 [janina]
- agenda+ Other Business
- 16:08:11 [janina]
- agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
- 16:08:13 [janina]
- agenda+ Identify Scribe for 15 December http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
- 16:08:15 [janina]
- agenda+ be done
- 16:08:17 [janina]
-
- 16:08:31 [richardschwerdtfe]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline
- 16:08:32 [Zakim]
- +Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:08:44 [MichaelC]
- zakim, Ipcaller is probably Steve_Faulkner
- 16:08:44 [Zakim]
- +Steve_Faulkner?; got it
- 16:09:10 [MichaelC]
- agenda?
- 16:09:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
- http://dev.w3.org/html5/2dcontext/#text
- 16:09:22 [MichaelC]
- zakim, next item
- 16:09:32 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "canvas Issue-131 CP Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Dec/0085.html" taken up [from janina]
- 16:09:48 [MichaelC]
- rs: multiple baselines
- 16:09:50 [MichaelC]
- see above link
- 16:10:01 [MichaelC]
- which led to confusion
- 16:10:18 [MichaelC]
- clarifying which baseline has cleared up issue
- 16:10:32 [MichaelC]
- pc: trying to repoen issue because disagree with decision, or providing new information?
- 16:10:35 [MichaelC]
- rs: new information
- 16:10:59 [MichaelC]
- previous change proposal turned out not to have enough detail
- 16:11:04 [MichaelC]
- because wasn't clear in spec
- 16:11:34 [MichaelC]
- pc: wondering if this is so chairs will continue dialogue with editor
- 16:11:56 [MichaelC]
- js: by picking a specific baseline, it's not unclear so easier to discuss around
- 16:12:19 [MichaelC]
- rs: Maciej requested a diff between change proposals, have provided one
- 16:13:26 [MichaelC]
- pc: so need TF endorsement, then official sending to chair
- 16:13:42 [MichaelC]
- js: any objection to forwarding?
- 16:14:23 [Zakim]
- -Jim_Allan
- 16:14:43 [Zakim]
- +Jim_Allan
- 16:16:00 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: forward change proposal at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline to HTML WG chairs (cc HTML WG) with note it reopens HTML-ISSUE-131
- 16:16:32 [MichaelC]
- zakim, next item
- 16:16:32 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Drag and Drop" taken up [from janina]
- 16:17:13 [MichaelC]
- js: asked Jim, Kelly, Everett to join call to discuss this
- 16:17:51 [MichaelC]
- jf: Everett put out some questions about drag and drop
- 16:17:55 [MichaelC]
- didn't get feedback
- 16:17:55 [JAllan]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Nov/0155.html
- 16:18:11 [LeonieW]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Nov/0155.html
- 16:18:54 [MichaelC]
- js: should these questions be addressed by HTML, or by User Agent Accessibility Guidelines?
- 16:19:05 [MichaelC]
- ja: thought this was covered in keyboard access part of UAAG
- 16:19:38 [MichaelC]
- under principle that everything you can do with a mouse you can do with a keyboard
- 16:19:50 [MichaelC]
- has been demonstrated doable
- 16:20:01 [MichaelC]
- and browser could handle it
- 16:20:07 [MichaelC]
- cs: are there examples and techniques?
- 16:20:10 [MichaelC]
- ja: we could add some
- 16:20:28 [MichaelC]
- kf: that seems accurate summary of situation
- 16:21:14 [MichaelC]
- mc: need a specific methodology for drag and drop with keyboard
- 16:21:22 [MichaelC]
- browsers won't "just know" how to do it
- 16:21:29 [MichaelC]
- UAAG techniques could describe this
- 16:22:03 [MichaelC]
- ja: yes, can do in UAAG techniques since UAAG has the requirement
- 16:22:35 [MichaelC]
- jf: questions about user interaction rules specified in HTML
- 16:22:51 [MichaelC]
- ja: that should be fleshed out in HTML 5 and then UAAG can reflect
- 16:23:07 [MichaelC]
- kf: like having the guidance in HTML 5 because higher visibility; UAAG can supplement
- 16:23:17 [MichaelC]
- jf: think there are good questions in Everett's message
- 16:23:24 [MichaelC]
- attempting to escalate review of this...
- 16:24:41 [MichaelC]
- e.g., question 3 on img and a elements are draggable by default, are there ARIA features that should also be draggable?
- 16:24:52 [MichaelC]
- js: that is for sure an HTML 5 question
- 16:25:00 [richardschwerdtfe]
- brb
- 16:25:07 [MichaelC]
- are there any UAAG quetsions?
- 16:25:14 [MichaelC]
- kf: these really seem like HTML 5 questions
- 16:25:22 [MichaelC]
- jf: so what's next step?
- 16:25:36 [MichaelC]
- file bugs? note clock is ticking
- 16:25:39 [Judy]
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- +Judy
- 16:26:36 [MichaelC]
- lw: though first two issues were duplicates of bug 8800
- 16:26:52 [MichaelC]
- sf: so need to review outcome of that bug
- 16:27:09 [MichaelC]
- lw: or push on that
- 16:27:47 [MichaelC]
- js: if we tell Everett we support his analysis and think it should get escalated through existing and new bugs
- 16:28:42 [MichaelC]
- pc: HTML 5 editor looking both at Last Call bugs, and post-LC bugs
- 16:29:01 [MichaelC]
- these might get looked at in soonish timeframe, though we don't have a mechanism to guarantee
- 16:29:21 [MichaelC]
- providing motivating case for problem and explicit change proposal likely to help with processing
- 16:29:57 [MichaelC]
- js: asks JF to coordinate with Everett, Jim, Kelly on moving this forward
- 16:30:13 [MichaelC]
- ja: will look at UAAG overlap
- 16:30:26 [MichaelC]
- also will look into voice navigation aspect
- 16:32:16 [MichaelC]
- lw: Everett has content knowledge but needs process support from us
- 16:33:18 [MichaelC]
- js: support looking at keyboard, voice, and other device-independence use cases
- 16:33:37 [MichaelC]
- hope Independent User Interface will generacise the problem
- 16:34:08 [MichaelC]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/11/indie-ui-charter
- 16:34:45 [MichaelC]
- zakim, next item
- 16:34:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "review some RESOLVED/NEEDSINFO LC a11y bugs: http://goo.gl/J7WnX" taken up [from janina]
- 16:35:43 [MichaelC]
- pc: HTML 5 is processing bugs rapidly
- 16:36:41 [MichaelC]
- jb: including those set to needsinfo, wontfix, etc.?
- 16:36:49 [MichaelC]
- pc: includes all states
- 16:38:20 [MichaelC]
- count is down to 30, editor doing a lot of work on them for 31 Dec deadline
- 16:38:33 [MichaelC]
- based on numbers of escalations, not everyone agreeing with dispositions
- 16:38:49 [Judy]
- q+
- 16:38:52 [Stevef]
- q+
- 16:38:52 [MichaelC]
- chairs are issuing calls for change proposals in response to these
- 16:38:54 [MichaelC]
- ack
- 16:39:03 [MichaelC]
- ack j
- 16:39:33 [MichaelC]
- jb: a week ago numbers in various categories were higher
- 16:40:19 [MichaelC]
- if more marked as wontfix etc. we have higher workload to process those
- 16:41:07 [MichaelC]
- sf: <missed>
- 16:41:18 [MichaelC]
- pc: for 31 Dec editor will push bug count on his plate to 0
- 16:41:35 [MichaelC]
- for 13 Jan, we have deadline to escalate any we disagree with
- 16:41:59 [MichaelC]
- helpful to provide evidence before 31 Dec particularly for needsinfo
- 16:42:16 [janina]
- q?
- 16:42:16 [Judy]
- s/including those set to needsinfo, wontfix, etc/including those set to won't fix, worksforme, etc/
- 16:42:22 [janina]
- ack st
- 16:42:52 [MichaelC]
- you can see accelerated bug processing
- 16:43:12 [MichaelC]
- sf: what is status of issues that have been queuing up?
- 16:43:41 [MichaelC]
- pc: have been focusing on unblocking HTML 5 and canvas publication
- 16:44:01 [MichaelC]
- so that's priority
- 16:44:17 [MichaelC]
- chairs are about to release review of one of the HTML-ISSUE-30 change proposals
- 16:44:19 [Judy]
- q+
- 16:44:46 [MichaelC]
- ack j
- 16:45:19 [Stevef]
- q+
- 16:45:26 [MichaelC]
- jb: see a bigger workload in front of us, or timing over holidays tight
- 16:46:00 [MichaelC]
- pc: well, it's better than editor working on his deadline the day before
- 16:46:31 [MichaelC]
- jb: for messaging, should be clear it's editor resolutions, not WG resolutions
- 16:47:34 [MichaelC]
- pc: chairs not planning specific messaging
- 16:48:11 [MichaelC]
- js: so for needsinfo, we want to provide the info, so they don't languish un-updated
- 16:50:27 [MichaelC]
- mc: think there are new needsinfo bugs that need taking owners
- 16:53:14 [MichaelC]
- <more discussion on messaging>
- 16:53:32 [MichaelC]
- <discussion on handling bugs as they get processed>
- 16:53:34 [Judy]
- ack j
- 16:53:42 [MichaelC]
- ack s
- 16:54:12 [MichaelC]
- sf: there are two reopen requests that need info from JS
- 16:54:22 [MichaelC]
- js: yes, let's talk to get that
- 16:58:02 [Zakim]
- -Kelly_Ford
- 16:58:09 [Stevef]
- just resolved needsinfo bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11956
- 16:58:20 [paulc]
- I have leave for the WG call since I am chairing today.
- 16:58:36 [Zakim]
- -Paul_Cotton
- 16:59:08 [Zakim]
- -Steve_Faulkner?
- 17:01:24 [Zakim]
- -Cynthia_Shelly
- 17:01:42 [Zakim]
- -Léonie_Watson
- 17:01:46 [Zakim]
- -Jim_Allan
- 17:01:48 [Zakim]
- -Judy
- 17:01:50 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 17:01:52 [Zakim]
- -John_Foliot
- 17:01:56 [Zakim]
- -Janina_Sajka
- 17:02:18 [Zakim]
- -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
- 17:02:19 [Zakim]
- WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
- 17:02:20 [Zakim]
- Attendees were John_Foliot, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Kelly_Ford, Paul_Cotton, Jim_Allan, Léonie_Watson, Cynthia_Shelly, Steve_Faulkner?, Judy
- 18:39:05 [Stevef]
- Stevef has joined #html-a11y
- 20:16:19 [MichaelC]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 20:16:19 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 20:16:19 [Zakim]
- sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
- 20:16:20 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 20:16:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html trackbot
- 20:16:21 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 20:16:21 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items
- 20:18:11 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
- 20:18:11 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-irc
- 20:18:14 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 20:18:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
- 20:18:29 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, bye
- 20:18:37 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 20:18:39 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, bye
- 20:18:39 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items