See also: IRC log
<smaug> Have we decided whether to meet @tpac?
<burn> olli, not yet
<burn> although I have a space reserved that can be used either for this group or for a follow-on WG
<burn> I would like to use the space and time at TPAC for html speech-related discussions
<burn> trackbot, start telcon
<trackbot> Date: 15 September 2011
<burn> trackbot, this will be htmlspeech
<trackbot> Sorry, burn, I don't understand 'trackbot, this will be htmlspeech'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
<burn> ScribeNick: satish_
<burn> Scribe: Satish_Sampath
<burn> ScribeNick: glen
<burn> Scribe: Glen_Shires
<mbodell> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Sep/0026.html
Discussing draft http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Sep/att-0008/speechwepapi.html
Robert: in writing code, found
using constructors wherever possible simplifies it
... see code in
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Sep/0026.html
... service query object, etc is overblown
... if remote service, then need to create a service
object
... to pass into constructor of SpeechInput request
... (read the email for better description)
bringert: typically just want to
use default ... or if want specific speech service
... in either case, fundamentally same API
... two cases: default service or specific service. In either
case, ask for a feature and it either succeeds or fails.
burn: security/authentication is
easier in this model
... not required for default
Olli: how to handle permissions (old api had error callback)
bringert: not getting permission
is just another type of failure
... (permissions from user)
Robert: rather than overload
constructor, use a 2-stage approach: constructor + open
function
... in open function: use this URI, use default, etc
... async callback "I'm ready"
... on SpeechInputRequest
bringert: create, open, start/initialize (3 steps)
Robert: can stack up language, grammar
bringert: create,
open/initialize, start (3 steps)
... setup for remote servers
satish: start to set
quality
... start to set qualities
... open callback indicates success/fail
<mbodell> I'm not sure createFoo is that unstandard. Check out https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/webaudio/specification.html#AudioContext-section for an example of an object with a lot of createFoos
satish: whether supports capabilities
mbodell: SpeechService
bringert: new SpeechService, SpeechService.Open
Robert: old days: classes to create objects, had twice as many classes as needed
??1: what params in 3 steps?
bringert: create is constructor (no params or URL)
satish: or SpeechServiceObject
Robert: now I'm thinking a flat model, one object
bringert: open has success and
error callbacks
... attributes, URI
... create, initialize, start - no arguments, only
attributes
satish: same or different
handlers?
... if tied to function call, should be params. if lifetime of
object, then attributes
<bringert> new SpeechinputRequest(), .init(success, error), .start(success, error)
bringert: args should be:
create(void), init(successcallback, errorcallback),
start(successCallback, errorCallback)
... set all params at once and check once if works
???: as Robert said, simplify common use case
<mbodell> s/\?\?\?:/Olli:/
Olli: can re-use a SpeechInputRequest object for different language>
bringert: should be .setlanguage then .init()
Olli: so no longer binding SpeechInputRequest to ??? -- permission handling may be more ugly
Robert: permissions problem
hasn't yet been solved in doc
... oh that permission, retract
mbodell: reco should have
success/error callbacks - exact semantics of .init/.start and
what can change between them not clear yet
... old model: before .init, SpeechService completes before set
individual properties
bringert: we don't need .init, just let .start do it, and have .willItWork()
satish: .start creates connection
mbodell: I think satish suggests start/reco and then state-change callback
bringert: use case: can I show mic button - based on .willItWork()
mbodell: does .willItWork
consider user permissions?
... don't want to prompt user to ask
bringert: yes, .willItWork() could contact server (and not send data) and check if it technically will work (independent of user permissions)
satish: service is third-party. Can browser inquire "do you support?" Maybe if don't identify domain.
bringert: don't need .init, just
.start and .canStart
... .init is not mandatory (because .start can call .init)
satish: .init is still there, developer can call it, but not required to
bringert: so fewer callbacks need to be implemented
<bringert> new SpeechinputRequest(), .init(), .start() (calls init() if not called already)
<bringert> callbacks are attributes (event handlers) on SpeechInputRequest
<mbodell> and some results and errors are DOM events (which may have onevent handlers)
bringert: .start() may call .init()
burn: simplifies what the developer is required to do
Robert: someone should volunteer to write sample code and then IDL
mbodell: about to ask for a
volunteer
... at least to level of other proposals
satish: I volunteer
Robert: first a code sample, then IDL
mbodell: so this changes sections 3 and 4
satish: attributes for grammars
ddahl: what if URI changes after set grammar object
??3: sevice may load at call time, so if changes in meantime, service may not load until next invocation
ddahl: what if content of URI changes after set grammar object
bringert: URI may point to a dynamic resource, so for every reco request, the service should check to see if changed
mbodell: setting it doesn't freeze the content. service does HTTP for fetching/caching/etc
satish: service may cache when setGrammar
burn: service is responsible for fetching/caching -- not the browser
bringert: use semantics of URI to fetch and cache (for example, HTTP has semantics)
burn: author may have a way to update, but not part of browser's job
mbodell: that covers grammars, moving on to other parameters
satish: object.set...
mbodell: name/value string, can be more than one
<Charles> Consider JSON: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON
satish: is that more useful than one custom field
<mbodell> change setParameter to setCustomParameter
MJ: create new SpeechInputRequest then .setGrammar -- does this require communication with speech service to set up
mbodell: semantics are collect info then talk to speech service
MJ: request grammar to be activated before start audio
<mbodell> s/\?\?4:/MJ:/g
mbodell: .init may do this
... so when call .start(), it's ready
... main use case: grammars can take a long time, so improves
latency when call .start()
... MRCP (and others) allow defining grammars early
bringert: .addGrammar, .addGrammar .init(), then .start()
burn: change grammars?
mbodell: reInit?
bringert: .addGrammar and
.activateGramar
... specifying grammar, and starting to use grammar
mbodell: example .addGrammar, .init, .addGrammar, .start
satish: why allow that?
mbodell: some initialized, not others
bringert: so .start could call .init again
mbodell: some params shouldn't
change after .init (like URI), but (in my mind) some should
(like timeout)
... .init connects to service (handles those issues), but
shouldn't tie down other params
bringert: close (inert), pause,
resume
... hard to remember what can change when, so my preference if
anything gets changed between .init and .start, then .init gets
called again
... in close state can change anything, in pause state can
change some things and .init gets called again, in run state
things don't change immediately
Robert: not everything can be changed
bringert: some changes may affect
user-consent
... perhaps split params (service UI and everything else) or
just one bunch, would be hard to remember more categories
... service UI could be only in constructor object
MJ: set up service in beginning,
then user interaction later
... if set up a bunch of params, then change service
mbodell: changing URI can change permission model
<smaug> Argh, I run out of skype credits
mbodell: a separate SpeechInputRequest may be cleaner
<mbodell> make clear in doc that only init and start/reco actually communicate with server
mbodell: does .start mean start at this point, or is it buffered?
satish: permissions model may handle media capture differently than contacting speech service
mbodell: media capture permissions might encompass both
bringert: separate issue of sending data to a third party
burn: that's the point at which contact the speech service
mbodell: any agreement on if set up streaming, but haven't set up reco, does it buffer?
bringert: if file, always
beginning of file, if live (real-time like microphone) then no
buffering
... if want to buffer, developer can write code to do that
mbodell: so agree: no buffer
<mbodell> no buffer for media stream, we start the reco when the start/reco is called, and it starts listening to the stream only then
bringert: yes, audio api may have own buffering, or could even use javascript
burn: Olli asked me at beginning
if a meeting at TPAC
... even if wrapped up this report, we may have more to
discuss
... unlikely a formal meeting/discussion, but may be
useful/relevant/informal discussions
mbodell: and maybe formal if needed
burn: may have to slip call schedule out a week
mbodell: and document
burn: that's it, next call is next week, thanks everyone
<burn> s/zakim, s\/+1.650.253.aaaa, \/\///
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/??:/Olli:/ Succeeded: s/burn:/??1:/ FAILED: s/\?\?\?:/Olli:/ Succeeded: s/RobertL/Robert:/ FAILED: s/\?\?4:/MJ:/g Succeeded: s/??A/resume/ Succeeded: s/??5/MJ/ Succeeded: s/, +1.650.253.aaaa// WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/zakim, s\/+1.650.253.aaaa, \/\/// Succeeded: s/hey Michael Johnston, please hang up// Succeeded: s/??4:/MJ:/g Succeeded: s/??C/TPAC/ Found ScribeNick: satish_ Found Scribe: Satish_Sampath WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <satish_> ... Found ScribeNick: glen Found Scribe: Glen_Shires Scribes: Satish_Sampath, Glen_Shires ScribeNicks: satish_, glen Default Present: Dan_Burnett, Michael_Bodell, Olli_Pettay, Debbie_Dahl, Bjorn_Bringert, Satish_Sampath, Robert_Brown, Michael_Johnston Present: Dan_Burnett Michael_Bodell Olli_Pettay Debbie_Dahl Bjorn_Bringert Satish_Sampath Robert_Brown Michael_Johnston Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Sep/0025.html Found Date: 15 Sep 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-htmlspeech-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]