15:00:42 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:00:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-irc
15:00:44 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:46 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:47 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:00:47 Date: 08 September 2011
15:00:50 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:00:58 zakim, this is 2119
15:01:16 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:01:34 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:34 janina has joined #html-a11y
15:01:50 zakim, this is 2119
15:01:55 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:56 +Michael_Cooper
15:02:06 On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper
15:02:20 MichaelC, this was already WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:02:24 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:02:30 On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper
15:02:45 phone issues, but on my way
15:04:34 regrets: Laura_Carlson, Joshue_O_Connor, Marco_Ranon
15:04:46 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Sep/0033.html
15:05:00 +Judy
15:05:13 +??P35
15:05:21 Grrr... need to restart my phone.
15:05:26 -??P35
15:05:27 will join ASAP
15:05:41 JF, Janina is having similar issues!
15:05:53 Sorry all. I'm working on it.
15:06:04 judy_alt has joined #html-a11y
15:06:08 I enter code to join meeting, but zakim can't "hear" the tone/code
15:06:22 +??P57
15:06:45 zakim, ??P57 is Janina_Sajka
15:06:45 +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:07:32 +??P60
15:07:53 zakim, ??P60 is Léonie_Watson
15:07:53 +Léonie_Watson; got it
15:08:58 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
15:08:58 Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:08:58 agenda: this
15:08:58 agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:08:58 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Canvas; Text; Media;
15:08:58 agenda+ Other Business
15:09:01 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:09:03 agenda+ Identify Scribe for 1 September http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:09:05 agenda+ be done
15:09:06
15:09:15 scribe: LeonieWatson
15:09:15 + +1.650.468.aaaa
15:09:27 zakim, aaaa is JF
15:09:27 +JF; got it
15:10:20 zakim, who's here?
15:10:20 On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, JF
15:10:23 On IRC I see judy_alt, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, LeonieWatson, JF, richardschwerdtfe, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:11:09 zakim, take up agendum 1
15:11:09 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:11:36 zakim, take up agendum 2
15:11:36 agendum 2. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Canvas; Text; Media;" taken up [from janina]
15:12:22 Topic: Bug triage update
15:12:32 scribe: Rich
15:13:01 Leonie: we have made some progress on keywords being tagged. We are about 70% of the way through and will finish review next week
15:13:16 Leonie: After this we will look at the bigger list of bugs
15:13:32 Leonie: We will then get them prioritized
15:13:45 Leonie: We can get a couple of bugs we are reviewing. ....
15:14:01 janina: you wanted to bring questions to this meeting to get wider opinion?
15:14:23 Leonie: I don't have access to the minutes from Tuesday so perhaps next week. Perhaps, Michael does?
15:15:11 Topic: bug 13368
15:15:25 Leonie: this needs to be tracked
15:15:28 q+
15:15:54 janina: is this the same question we are raising from the text sub team to ask the group to reconsider the decision on alt?
15:16:09 JF: this does not have to do with meta generator
15:16:20 Leonie: this has more to do with generated content
15:16:47 JF: my understanding is that content generated by CSS is passed through the dom and sent to screen readers
15:17:38 JF: the problem, as I see it, is that using the before and after pseudo selectors is with putting an image on the screen. If you put in a PDF in a content management system an image is generated without alt text
15:17:47 q?
15:17:51 ack j
15:17:53 JF: If I were to generated text it would be read by a screen reader
15:18:01 JF: I feel this is a concern
15:18:20 janina: It seems that by how you describe it ...
15:18:35 Leonie: The bug triage team felt this was a problem to track
15:19:07 JF: I don't mind taking this bug on. My concern is that this was not reviewed by PF
15:19:31 JF: someone told me this was how it was used to be
15:20:06 Rich: we were talking about sprites for high contrast mode but I don't recall this one being discussed
15:20:26 Michael: Benjamin Hawkes Louis has extensive comments
15:20:56 s/Hawkes Louis/Hawkes-Lewis/
15:20:57 JF: the question really is what would be the preferred behavior?
15:21:42 JF: we had the means of generating sequences of numbers
15:21:58 JF: that to me was generated content not voiced by a screen reader
15:22:27 Michael: several ways of generating comments
15:22:49 Michael: we think these are CSS and not HTML issues but we need to look at this in the context of HTML
15:22:54 janina: that sounds correct
15:23:01 JF: so, what are we going to do
15:23:23 Michael: listing the problems is a starting point
15:23:43 Michael: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis should be engageable in this
15:24:02 JF: It should be considered as a background image
15:24:10 q+
15:24:26 JF: It needs to be exosed to AT
15:24:38 q?
15:24:42 ack r
15:25:34 Rich: we can apply roles of images and an aria-label to the targeted element
15:25:48 JF: what about actionable elements?
15:26:25 janina: we don't need to solve this today?
15:26:48 janina: we don't need to solve this today
15:27:05 janina: we need to ramp up our ability to address this
15:27:14 Q+
15:27:20 judy: If you want to add to the agenda to help Leonie filling out that matricx
15:27:30 s/matricx/matrix/
15:27:31 ack j
15:27:43 JF: dow we have a mechanism in aria that acts as a toggle?
15:28:23 Rich: no
15:28:47 JF: would this be an aria.next candidate?
15:29:37 Rich: possibly
15:29:43 q?
15:30:00 JF: perhaps a wysiwyg editor for this
15:30:24 leonie: the equivalent of and empty alt attribute
15:30:45 rich: we have an aria-hidden attribute
15:31:16 Michael: I don't know that we can convey all this with ARIA as you can have classes
15:31:25 Michael: assign the bug to John Foliot
15:32:05 Michael: I am willing to be on the subgroup: John, Michael, Leonie, Rich
15:32:14 Michael: John to lead the subgroup
15:32:27 Topic: Bug 13461
15:32:58 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13461
15:33:58 janina: this is a substantive comment by a major user
15:35:14 janina: from a bug processing perspective this is already subsumed as the information included needs to be retained.
15:35:47 janina: we can ask that laura incorporate it into the change proposal supporting the changes for longdesc
15:35:55 Leonie: Yup!
15:36:27 q+
15:36:35 Janina: we do not want to lose the comments from the Association of American publishers
15:37:00 Janina: we would ask laura to ask that this be referenced in the change proposal
15:37:04 Judy: I support this
15:37:43 Judy: so, this is closed because of duplication of another defect?
15:38:02 JF: this is not closed. it is listed as new. Jim thatcher supported it
15:38:43 JF: It is not really a bug but it is a comment. There is a tracker issue tagged to it
15:38:56 JF: I would support Laura linking to it
15:39:12 janina: I suspect it will be closed by procedure as it is already being taken up
15:39:22 q+
15:39:29 ack JF
15:39:50 ack J
15:40:06 Judy: the most relevant place is to attach it to an existing change proposal. We should add it in a survey
15:40:35 janina: this is a bridge we need to cross
15:41:24 janina: anything else on this?
15:41:51 s/the most relevant place is to attach it to an existing change proposal. We should add it in a survey/yes let's add it to the change proposal but the most relevant place would be to add it into survey when issue is resurveyed/
15:41:57 JF: perhaps a discussion with the chairs so that this does not get closed and lost.
15:42:33 JF: they like questions like this coming forward
15:42:42 judy: they are going to say put it in the survey
15:43:38 JF: this is supporting evidenced for our change proposal
15:44:03 judy: my comment earlier was to add this as relevant information to both the change proposal and the survey
15:44:33 janina: we should think in terms of how they construct the longdesc survey
15:44:43 judy: we can provide feedback on that
15:45:02 janina: we can perfect the old survey
15:46:08 Topic: Canvas Accessibility focus ring/text baseline
15:46:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JulSep/0272.html
15:46:24 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline
15:47:24 LeonieWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:47:46 Topic: Canvas update
15:49:27 RS: We've modified our code and made changes and we're hoping to get reviews by browser vendors on focus ring.
15:49:44 RS: Once that's done, we can submit a formal CP
15:50:37 RS: I don't want this to end up with another counter proposal getting in the way.
15:50:48 JS: Questions?
15:50:56 RS: Comments welcome, send them on over.
15:51:16 rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson
15:51:28 Topic: Media update
15:51:37 JF: Nothing to report.
15:51:57 JS: We're waiting for content to play with for navigation, and we have some poster issue stuff still to work on.
15:52:09 JF: The poster issue has been logged as a formal objection, which I need to look at.
15:52:34 JS: With navigation we need to see if our proposed ideas work?
15:52:51 JF: We should try to convene the group again to look at some of this.
15:53:15 JS: We could maybe take advantage of time together at TPAC.
15:53:19 Topic: Text update
15:53:34 JB: We haven't met for the last two weeks, but will meet next week. We have plenty to do.
15:54:29 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/LongdescZeroEdit
15:54:33 JF: We need to decide what we want to do about the response I sent to Jonas.
15:54:57 JB: Apologies John, I'm hoping to get to this soon.
15:55:06 JF: I'm hearing the chairs will want to make a move soon.
15:55:26 JB: They do understand we have responses pending. If we want to comment on Math, I think they'd welcome that.
15:55:39 a/Math/Matt
15:56:15 Topic: Review of CSS
15:56:52 JS: Before TPAC we're trying to review the whole CSS3 spec.
15:57:23 s/We need to decide what we want to do about the response I sent to Jonas./We need to decide what we want to do about the response I drafted for Jonas' CP
15:57:27 JS: We'll hopefully be able to bring PF and CSS WGs together at TPAC.
15:58:21 JF: I could try to reach out to Tab Atkins?
15:58:26 JS: Yep.
15:58:39 JS: There is another wiki and matrix page.
15:58:53 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CSS/Spec_Review
15:59:04 q+
16:00:43 dropping off
16:00:56 -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:01:08 LW: I can probably ask my team to help out and filter information back to the PFWG.
16:01:59 JF: There are two entries in the matrix: generated content and generated content page. You can put me down for those.
16:02:35 JS: If people outside of PF are able to help, write to Michael and he'll associate them with the module.
16:02:41 rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson
16:03:14 -Léonie_Watson
16:03:35 -Michael_Cooper
16:03:36 -Judy
16:03:37 -Janina_Sajka
16:03:46 janina has left #html-a11y
16:04:08 rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson
16:04:29 -JF
16:04:31 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
16:04:33 Attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Léonie_Watson, +1.650.468.aaaa, JF
16:06:21 rrsagent, make minutes
16:06:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieWatson
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