IRC log of dap on 2011-08-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:18:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:18:01 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/24-dap-irc
13:18:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:18:03 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:18:05 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:18:05 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 42 minutes
13:18:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:18:06 [trackbot]
Date: 24 August 2011
13:44:23 [fjh_]
fjh_ has joined #dap
13:51:18 [fjh_]
fjh_ has joined #dap
13:54:02 [ernesto_jimenez_]
ernesto_jimenez_ has joined #dap
13:54:09 [ernesto_jimenez]
ernesto_jimenez has joined #dap
13:54:40 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:54:48 [Zakim]
+ +44.778.611.aaaa
13:55:02 [fjh]
Regrets+ Wonsuk_Lee
13:55:42 [fjh]
Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:55:48 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has joined #dap
13:55:50 [fjh]
Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:56:01 [AnssiK]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
13:56:18 [ernesto_jimenez]
Present+ Ernesto_Jimenez
13:56:37 [fjh_]
fjh_ has joined #dap
13:56:46 [Zakim]
+??P1
13:56:59 [AnssiK]
zakim, +??P1 is me
13:56:59 [Zakim]
sorry, AnssiK, I do not recognize a party named '+??P1'
13:57:09 [AnssiK]
zakim, ??P1 is me
13:57:09 [Zakim]
+AnssiK; got it
13:57:12 [Dzung_Tran]
Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
13:57:14 [fjh_]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0045.html
13:57:17 [Dzung_Tran]
Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:57:53 [ernesto_jimenez]
zakim, aaaa is me
13:57:53 [Zakim]
+ernesto_jimenez; got it
13:58:23 [Cathy]
Cathy has joined #dap
13:59:15 [Zakim]
+??P2
13:59:21 [fjh_]
zakim, ?? is me
13:59:21 [Zakim]
+fjh_; got it
13:59:35 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
13:59:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ernesto_jimenez, AnssiK, fjh_
13:59:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Cathy, Dzung_Tran, fjh_, AnssiK, ernesto_jimenez, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, dcoloma, darobin, wmaslowski_, richt, dom, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot, lgombos
14:00:15 [dom]
Zakim, code?
14:00:15 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dom
14:00:44 [Zakim]
+Dom
14:00:45 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:00:53 [Kihong_Kwon]
Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap
14:01:28 [Cathy]
Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:01:41 [Kihong_Kwon]
Present+ Kihong_Kwon
14:02:16 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.214.aabb
14:02:25 [Zakim]
+??P11
14:02:34 [darobin]
Zakim, ??P11 is me
14:02:34 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
14:02:40 [bryan_sullivan]
bryan_sullivan has joined #dap
14:02:56 [Zakim]
-fjh_
14:03:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.289.261.aacc
14:03:10 [bryan_sullivan]
Present+ Bryan_Sullivan
14:03:15 [bryan_sullivan]
Bryan
14:03:18 [Zakim]
-ernesto_jimenez
14:03:20 [dom]
Zakim, aabb is bryan_sullivan
14:03:20 [Zakim]
+bryan_sullivan; got it
14:03:28 [Zakim]
+??P0
14:03:30 [fjh_]
zakim, ?? is me
14:03:30 [Zakim]
+fjh_; got it
14:03:33 [Zakim]
+richt
14:03:35 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
14:03:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AnssiK, Dom, bryan_sullivan, darobin, +1.289.261.aacc, fjh_, richt
14:03:37 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, Kihong_Kwon, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, fjh_, AnssiK, ernesto_jimenez, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, dcoloma, darobin, wmaslowski_, richt, dom, ingmar, ilkka,
14:03:39 [Zakim]
... trackbot, lgombos
14:03:42 [richt]
Present+ Rich_Tibbett
14:03:59 [Zakim]
+ernesto_jimenez
14:04:40 [dom]
Zakim, aacc is josh
14:04:40 [Zakim]
+josh; got it
14:05:03 [fjh_]
Present+ Josh_Soref
14:05:39 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:05:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AnssiK, Dom, bryan_sullivan, darobin, josh, fjh_, richt, ernesto_jimenez
14:05:42 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, Kihong_Kwon, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, fjh, AnssiK, ernesto_jimenez, fh, Zakim, RRSAgent, dcoloma, darobin, wmaslowski_, richt, dom, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot,
14:05:44 [Zakim]
... lgombos
14:06:43 [fjh]
ScribeNick: richt
14:06:48 [fjh]
Topic: Administrative
14:07:23 [richt]
fjh: Announcement on creation of the AR community interest group
14:07:29 [dom]
Zakim, mute richt
14:07:29 [Zakim]
richt should now be muted
14:07:35 [richt]
fjh: ....on the mailing list
14:07:50 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0037.html
14:07:59 [dom]
Zakim, who's noisy?
14:08:09 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh_ (9%), Dom (9%), darobin (15%)
14:08:11 [fjh]
also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0040.html
14:08:27 [Zakim]
-darobin
14:08:37 [richt]
fjh: ongoing discussion with the relationship between WebRTC/DAP. Agenda item on todays call.
14:08:47 [richt]
fjh: Mozilla WebAPI announced on the list
14:08:52 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0051.html
14:09:06 [richt]
fjh: Any other announcements?
14:09:11 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:09:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AnssiK, Dom, bryan_sullivan, josh, fjh_, richt (muted), ernesto_jimenez
14:09:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, Kihong_Kwon, Cathy, Dzung_Tran, fjh, AnssiK, ernesto_jimenez, fh, Zakim, RRSAgent, dcoloma, wmaslowski_, richt, dom, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot, lgombos
14:09:16 [richt]
<no announcements>
14:09:42 [richt]
Topic: Minutes Approval
14:09:46 [darobin]
darobin has joined #dap
14:09:46 [Zakim]
+??P15
14:10:00 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/att-0026/minutes-2011-08-17.html
14:10:06 [fjh]
proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 17 August 2011 are approved
14:10:07 [darobin]
Zakim, ??P15 is me
14:10:07 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
14:10:14 [richt]
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 17 August 2011 are approved
14:10:25 [richt]
Topic: New DAP Charter
14:10:29 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0042.html
14:10:35 [richt]
fjh: New charter announced. Dom sent out email to list.
14:11:10 [fjh]
http://www.w3.org/2011/07/DeviceAPICharter.html
14:11:12 [richt]
zakim, unmute me
14:11:12 [Zakim]
richt should no longer be muted
14:11:38 [richt]
dom: Other potential participants want to have seperate mailing lists for different topics
14:11:52 [richt]
dom: We've also added Device Discovery in the charter. This might grow to more than DAP can manage...
14:12:08 [richt]
dom: depending on how that goes we might create a seperate working group to tackle that.
14:12:18 [richt]
dom: in the mean time DAP will work on this topic.
14:12:42 [richt]
dom: Second part: since there are new deliverables all the participants need to rejoin the group.
14:12:58 [dom]
http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/43696/join
14:13:06 [richt]
dom: Please make sure your AC representative goes through that process for you. In 40 days you will otherwise be automatically removed from the list.
14:13:24 [richt]
dom: Officially we are now the "Device APIs Working Group".
14:13:49 [dom]
https://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/43696/status
14:13:57 [dom]
https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=43696
14:14:12 [richt]
dom: link above shows who has rejoined the group to date.
14:14:55 [richt]
Topic: Roadmap
14:14:58 [dom]
if you're on that page, https://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/43696/discrepancies you need to take action
14:15:20 [fjh]
Topic: Roadmap
14:15:22 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0032.html
14:15:31 [richt]
darobin: do we need to maintain list between priority list and the others?
14:16:08 [richt]
dom: does the separation between prio/non-prio make sense
14:16:13 [richt]
fjh: I think it seems helpful
14:16:30 [AnssiK]
[the last updated is an indication of priority]
14:16:37 [richt]
darobin: priorities may be flexible.
14:16:52 [richt]
fjh: we can adjust as we go.
14:17:05 [AnssiK]
darobin: cannot it be automated?
14:17:24 [AnssiK]
dom: or make it dynamic even!
14:17:40 [richt]
ACTION Frederick to update the home page with priority/work-on specs.
14:17:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-447 - Update the home page with priority/work-on specs. [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2011-08-31].
14:18:08 [dom]
AnssiK, it's partly automated already (i.e. it gets updated each time someone makes a commit to an editors draft)
14:18:10 [richt]
Topic: WebRTC / DAP relationship
14:18:33 [richt]
fjh: Some discussion on WebRTC list on the relationship of that group with DAP.
14:18:36 [AnssiK]
dom, that's cool!
14:18:54 [richt]
fjh: ...wondering whether we should discontinue the Media Capture API specification
14:19:17 [richt]
dom: One thing that is confusing is our stance on the Media Capture API.
14:20:04 [richt]
dom: ...from the WebRTC chairs I understand that an API like the Media Capture API
14:20:07 [bryan_sullivan]
q+
14:20:13 [richt]
dom: ...we had a prototype from Microsoft on this API.
14:20:35 [richt]
dom: ...so there's still interest but we don't have any active editors on it right now.
14:20:44 [richt]
dom: ...we do need to clarify our plans for that spec.
14:20:55 [richt]
dom: ...and whether WebRTC should pick it up
14:20:59 [darobin]
q?
14:21:16 [darobin]
ack bryan_sullivan
14:21:45 [darobin]
[yes, it's an update to that previous discussion]
14:21:54 [darobin]
[or a continuation]
14:22:11 [richt]
I sent an email in June discussing the work of DAP to the WebRTC mailing list
14:22:13 [richt]
q+
14:22:40 [richt]
dom: this is a coordination issue
14:22:43 [Zakim]
-ernesto_jimenez
14:23:11 [Zakim]
+ernesto_jimenez
14:23:15 [richt]
fjh: so we need a discussion on the list to see where we go with this.
14:23:29 [richt]
bryan_sullivan: Does WebRTC consider a capture API within their scope?
14:23:39 [richt]
dom:they have more difficult things to deal with.
14:24:00 [fjh]
ack richt
14:25:03 [fjh]
DAP WG needs to determine how it plans to progress Media Capture (or not)
14:25:46 [fjh]
richt mentions some of this is covered by a WHATWG proposal
14:26:05 [richt]
dom: I think it's possible to use WebRTC to do the media capture api but it comes with its own problems.
14:26:19 [richt]
dom: e.g. you need to grant access to stream even if it's just taking a picture
14:26:32 [richt]
dom: ...it's also more costly on device resources
14:27:02 [darobin]
[you'll get really crap quality compared to a real sensor used properly too]
14:27:34 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:27:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, ernesto_jimenez, AnssiK, Dom, bryan_sullivan, josh, fjh_, richt
14:27:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see darobin, bryan_sullivan, Kihong_Kwon, Dzung_Tran, fjh, AnssiK, ernesto_jimenez, fh, Zakim, RRSAgent, dcoloma, wmaslowski_, richt, dom, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot, lgombos
14:28:08 [richt]
richt: Is this about opening the native controls?
14:28:14 [richt]
dom: yes, it could be used like that.
14:28:36 [richt]
dom: I'll send an email to the DAP list to see if we can clarify this further.
14:28:46 [AnssiK]
for the record, here's MS's proposal to extend Capture API: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2011Mar/att-0001/microsoft-api-draft-final.html#capture_api_extensions
14:28:46 [richt]
dom: ...whether anyone wants to take editorial ownership.
14:28:51 [richt]
Topic: Battery API
14:29:02 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0030.html
14:29:13 [AnssiK]
q+
14:29:17 [richt]
fjh: Anssi made some changes recently.
14:29:23 [AnssiK]
ack me
14:29:25 [darobin]
ack AnssiK
14:29:48 [AnssiK]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0030.html
14:29:49 [richt]
AnssiK: I tried to incorporate all the changes discussed on the list
14:29:53 [robin]
robin has joined #dap
14:30:21 [fjh]
ISSUE-113?
14:30:22 [trackbot]
ISSUE-113 -- AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects -- open
14:30:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/113
14:30:47 [richt]
<AnssiK goes through feedback email>
14:30:57 [fjh]
see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0030.html
14:31:58 [richt]
ISSUE-114?
14:31:58 [trackbot]
ISSUE-114 -- Battery spec should note relative ordering of battery low versus battery critical in terms of criticality -- open
14:31:58 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/114
14:32:09 [richt]
ISSUE-115?
14:32:09 [trackbot]
ISSUE-115 -- Do you get the batterylow event when you're charging and cross that boundary? -- open
14:32:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/115
14:32:27 [dom]
Zakim, mute me
14:32:27 [Zakim]
Dom should now be muted
14:32:31 [fjh]
see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0050.html
14:32:47 [richt]
ACTION-426?
14:32:47 [trackbot]
ACTION-426 -- Robin Berjon to draft the proposed design of getting rid of battery{low,critical} and adding a field that indicates state=ok/low/critical -- due 2011-07-26 -- OPEN
14:32:47 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/426
14:33:11 [AnssiK]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0056.html
14:35:37 [darobin]
[scribe pauses while details from the email are being exposed]
14:35:51 [richt]
AnssiK: Would like some review and know if everyone agrees with these changes / they address the concerns raised on the mailing list.
14:36:03 [fjh]
All, please review specification and comment on list, or note agreement
14:36:03 [richt]
AnssiK: Please go to the latest editors draft to view the changes.
14:36:11 [dom]
+1 on great work!
14:36:12 [darobin]
[I'll provide review; thanks a lot for the work]
14:36:13 [richt]
AnssiK: We can always revert if there are objections
14:36:26 [richt]
fjh: Thanks a lot for your work AnssiK
14:36:42 [richt]
fjh: Not in a position to do anything on this call but we'll review on the list.
14:36:58 [richt]
Topic: Feature Permissions
14:37:07 [richt]
fjh: lgombos, you here?
14:37:09 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:37:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, ernesto_jimenez, AnssiK, Dom (muted), bryan_sullivan, josh, fjh_, richt
14:37:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see darobin, bryan_sullivan, Kihong_Kwon, Dzung_Tran, fjh, AnssiK, ernesto_jimenez, fh, Zakim, RRSAgent, dcoloma, wmaslowski_, richt, dom, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot, lgombos
14:37:24 [richt]
fjh: lgombos is not here.
14:37:33 [fjh]
ACTION-436?
14:37:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-436 -- WonSuk Lee to provide an example for Permissions -- due 2011-07-27 -- OPEN
14:37:33 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/436
14:37:42 [fjh]
close ACTION-436
14:37:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-436 Provide an example for Permissions closed
14:37:51 [richt]
Topic: Privacy Rulesets
14:38:00 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0036.html
14:38:00 [richt]
fjh: took an action to review the issues and respond to them
14:38:00 [fjh]
\
14:38:15 [richt]
fjh: some of these issues really belong to the service provider not the UA
14:38:25 [richt]
fjh: A couple of those issues could therefore be closed.
14:38:47 [richt]
fjh: Some activity on other APIs e.g. Contacts. darobin, you want to discuss now or next call?
14:39:23 [richt]
darobin: just catching up after vacation. maybe next call unless you have specific topics to bring up
14:40:34 [richt]
fjh: let's regroup on other APIs next week
14:40:44 [dom]
Zakim, unmute me
14:40:44 [Zakim]
Dom should no longer be muted
14:41:18 [richt]
fjh: Remember to remind your AC rep to add you back to the list.
14:41:23 [richt]
Topic: AOB
14:41:31 [richt]
fjh: Remember to remind your AC rep to add you back to the list.
14:41:43 [richt]
fjh: Any other business?
14:41:48 [richt]
<nope
14:41:52 [richt]
<nope>
14:42:17 [Cathy]
Cathy has joined #dap
14:42:18 [richt]
dom: Do we want to touch on WebAPI in this call quickly?
14:42:29 [richt]
fjh: Just that we want to look in to it more I guess
14:42:35 [darobin]
[and B2G]
14:42:44 [richt]
dom: Announcement from Mozilla that they will develop APIs to Device features.
14:42:57 [AnssiK]
[do we have any Moz people in this WG yet?]
14:43:05 [richt]
dom: We should know more about there plans for bringing this to W3C standardization in the coming days/weeks
14:43:13 [richt]
dom: not much more to share on this right now though
14:43:35 [richt]
fjh: would be good to have them join but no further information just yet.
14:44:00 [AnssiK]
would be great to get them onboard
14:44:13 [richt]
fjh: That's it for this week's call.
14:44:20 [Zakim]
-bryan_sullivan
14:44:21 [AnssiK]
s/would/darobin: would/
14:44:23 [bryan_sullivan]
bryan_sullivan has left #dap
14:44:37 [richt]
fjh: Thank you.
14:44:42 [Zakim]
-darobin
14:44:43 [Zakim]
-AnssiK
14:44:43 [Zakim]
-Dom
14:44:45 [Zakim]
-fjh_
14:44:45 [Zakim]
-josh
14:44:46 [Zakim]
-ernesto_jimenez
14:44:48 [richt]
Meeting adjourned
14:44:49 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:44:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/24-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:45:00 [Zakim]
-richt
14:45:01 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:45:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were +44.778.611.aaaa, AnssiK, ernesto_jimenez, fjh_, Dom, +1.425.214.aabb, darobin, +1.289.261.aacc, bryan_sullivan, richt, josh
14:45:47 [richt]
s/about there plans/about their plans
14:46:02 [richt]
s/<nope//
14:46:17 [richt]
s/this week's call/this weeks call/
14:47:32 [richt]
s/from the WebRTC chairs I understand that an API like the Media Capture API/from the WebRTC chairs I understand that an API like the Media Capture API would be of interest/
14:48:32 [richt]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:48:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/24-dap-minutes.html richt
14:49:24 [richt]
s/<nope/<nope>/
14:49:34 [richt]
s/<//
14:49:35 [richt]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:49:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/24-dap-minutes.html richt
16:56:25 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dap