See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 18 August 2011
<cyril> thanks heycam
<cyril> heycam, how do you generate the ToC on the group's wiki pages ?
<heycam> cyril, you just use headings like "= Level 1 heading =" or "== blah blah Level 2 heading =="
<cyril> thank you
<cyril> I'll edit the SVG 1.2 Tiny page
<cyril> it's easier to reference to a item by number
<cyril> yes
<cyril> scribe: Cyril Concolato
<cyril> scribenick: cyril
CM: we decided not to have an SVG F2F WG meeting in SVG Open but Tav can only be there
DS: having a day is reasonnable
CM: it doesn't even have to be a
whole day
... it depends on the topic
... it would be nice to have Tav because he's usually not able
to travel
... we can have a meeting and review what was discussed later
on in Santa Clara
ED: what day ?
CM: are you involved in the
workshop day ? on the thursday ?
... Tav is not involved in the workshops
... I'm wondering about rooms
... it would be good to meet in the same place as the
workshops
CC: could we have a bridge to call in ?
CM: someone should contact the organizer to check room and bridge
ED: the 4th day should be fine
<scribe> ACTION: heycam to contact Andreas Neumann about the room and bridge for a short 1 day F2F at SVG Open 2011 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3109 - Contact Andreas Neumann about the room and bridge for a short 1 day F2F at SVG Open 2011 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-08-25].
CM: we have 3 lists on the wiki
<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page
CM: we should discuss how we
decide on those lists
... especially before the F2F
... we should put comments on the wiki
... it would be good if people could put comments on each
feature and put a yes/no
ED: I have an action to go
through minutes for resolutions
... I'm not sure about overlaps
CC: we should have a single list
DS: agree, we should also
quantify
... putting a numerical value 1-5
... one for priority
... one for complexity
<ed> ACTION-3095?
<trackbot> ACTION-3095 -- Erik Dahlström to go through the last few f2f minutes to find resolutions for SVG2 items, and add them to the wiki page. -- due 2011-08-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3095
DS: one for usefulness
... those are the 3 key factors
... obviously complexity is for viewers, but it might be also
for authors but we can work that out in the text
CM: should one of us go through all and put initial numbers
DS: we can each contribute and then we discuss where we will not agree
CM: would like to put those assessment done before you put your comments ?
DS: not necessarily
... we should start today to put assessments
CM: I think my 2 lists should be
free of duplicates
... Issues are vague, coming from the tracker
range from bug to feature
scribe: I did not include bugs or problems with existing features
<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input_From_Tracker
scribe: it would be nice to have the issue in a single list
CM: is it reasonnable to go through the list for next week ?
<scribe> ACTION: heycam to merge the two features/issues lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3110 - Merge the two features/issues lists [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-08-25].
<scribe> ACTION: cyril to merge the SVG Tiny 1.2 features into the results of ACTION-3110 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3111 - Merge the SVG Tiny 1.2 features into the results of ACTION-3110 [on Cyril Concolato - due 2011-08-25].
CM: I'll put a template also to
enable people to comment
... what about "Feedback from Jonathan Watt: https://wiki.mozilla.org/SVG:Language:Regrets"
ED: I wonder how many are already covered by issues ...
CM: at least one of those is already there (xlink)
<scribe> ACTION: heycam to go through jwatt's SVG regret page and add any feature from there to our requirements wiki page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3112 - Go through jwatt's SVG regret page and add any feature from there to our requirements wiki page [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-08-25].
<heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback
CM: it's probably hard to accept something without a concrete proposal
CC: we shouldn't definitely
reject features without concrete proposal
... we should give an idea if a proposal in a given area is
acceptable to the group or not
<heycam> ScribeNick: heycam
<scribe> Scribe: Cameron
CC: this is related to an action erik has
ACTION-3097?
<trackbot> ACTION-3097 -- Erik Dahlström to propose wording for the edge case where a radialGradient's focal point sits on the edge of the circle and the gradient repeats. the spec. should say that when the focal point is on the circle edge, with repeat, then the distance between the first and last stop for the repeating colors is 0 and the paint should generate a color that is the average of all the gradient stops. -- due 2011-08-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3097
CC: In seattle we discussed
content that has radial gradient noninteroperable
behaviour
... I tried to check with the spec what the problem was
... if the spec was actually specifying something about the
behaviour of the gradient outside of the circle, but there's no
formula for how the gradient should be built
... I only found one in the canvas spec
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0095.html
scribe: so in the canvas spec it
clearly defines how to build the gradient
... but it doesn't say what to do when the centre of the circle
is outside the main circle
ED: canvas doesn't have reflect and repeat
CC: I think as a basis we could
adopt this definition for the inside of the circle
... it would clarify how we build the gradient
... then we should define how we fill the outside the
circle
... in the email I have two examples
<cyril> http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~concolat/SVG/radial_gradient_construction_animation.svg
CC: that shows a radialGradient
with a repeat
... it shows that if you continue the formula defined in the
canvas spec, you don't have a problem, the gradient is well
defined
<cyril> http://perso.telecom-paristech.fr/~concolat/SVG/radial_gradient_construction_animation_edge_case.svg
CC: in this one the focal point
is on the edge of the circle defining the gradient
... you can still follow the canvas spec formula, but it only
fills half the plane
... as you animate the circle you'll never go beyond the normal
to the focal point
CM: so that'd be a straight vertical line
<krit> Firefox and WebKit don't support setting focal point on the edge
CM: for reflect we could just
mirror the image around that line
... we could just define this not to work
CC: or choose a solid colour to fill the rest of the plane with
ED: I think IE does this
CC: I'm just checking IE9, they don't use a solid colour
CM: so I think it would be good for us to have a formula for computing gradient colors
CC: the one in the canvas spec is the one that we want
ED: the action I have is to make the half plane fill with a solid colour, average of all the stops in the gradient
CC: I don't understand why
though
... it's not even a colour that the author specified
... I could understand the colour at stop 0 or 1, but why the
average?
ED: probably because it's hard to pick any colour that matches
CM: I think Tab was using average of stop colours in certain cases in css3 image values, but I don't remember which cases they were
ED: if you have a line
perpendicular to the radius of the circle, and keep very tiny
steps between each straight line, you'll get something like an
average
... tightly packed colours from the gradient
CM: we could flip the well defined half of the image to the undefined part
ED: it seems like new behaviour though
CM: does it make sense as a "reflect" or "repeat"?
ED: not so much repeat, reflect yes. it's different from the linear gradient though.
CC: another point was talking
about a new value, a smaller radius fr=""
... I think we can already do it by adding an initial stop
colour
... same offset colour for 0 and fr/r
... then you get the same effect
CM: unless you want to repeat/reflect into that smaller circle
CC: the pdf spec has an fr
<cyril> Figure L.11
CC: they have some interesting examples
<cyril> http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/pdf/pdfs/PDF32000_2008.pdf
CM: ok so they don't fill anything in the inner circle
CC: let's see what erik
proposes
... the adobe guys might have an opinion
ED: the canvas one, does that support things outside the circle?
CC: no
ED: I will consider this when making the proposal
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0085.html
CC: I don't know if you
understood my problem
... I think this is applicable to 1.1
... when you have an SVG linked from another SVG, two separate
documents
... this describes a single application
... you want some key events to be processed by the parent
document, and some by the child document
... you want to design your documents so they don't know
exactly what the other document is doing with the keys
... e.g. if the subdocument has the focus, and you press "a",
if it's used by the subdocument it's fine, if not then it could
go to the parent document
... a bit like mouse events -- when you click on the
subdocument and there's nothing to be clicked on, transparent
background, then the parent document will take that event
CM: I think they're slightly
different cases
... I'm thinking about iframes, events don't propagate across
those
CC: what do inner documents do
with a key that's not been used?
... I'd like some text to describe that
[discussion of animation vs image]
ED: I would expect svg <image> to behave the same as html <img>
CC: the question then is how
should it work with an iframe
... I'll make some tests
CM: if we wanted to allow propagation across windows, it's broader than just svg
CC: yes it's more of platform thing than just svg
CM: I think it is defined that it
shouldn't propagate currently
... per dom events flow
CC: I was arguing that you could
do the same thing in SVG, with synchronised graphics
... I wanted to check whether there was any interest in having
synchronised graphics in this context
... I found a page from Charles on how to do subtitling in SVG
in Opera
s/Chaals/Chaal/s
<cyril> http://dev.opera.com/forums/topic/370891
CC: This is a year and a half old
example
... sylvia was saying that browsers will implement webvtt, and
not svg as tracks
ED: webvtt is probably a lot simpler to write
CC: yes but it's more
limited
... my guess, since it's how we implemented in gpac, is that
once you have svg and video support, adding synchronised
display of svg on top of video is not complex
CM: does webvtt fire events?
<krit> it does
CC: ontrackcuechange
CM: so maybe you could have svg animation triggered off those
CC: all you need is to use the
same time base as the video
... don't even need the events
... see the example from chaals
... you can structure your svg file in a way that is frame
based, it's really equivalent to a vtt file
... one use case is having clickable shapes that come up
... with a link to a web page for an advertisement for
example
... the media pipeline taskforce are only considering
rectangular regions
<cyril> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/0023.html
CM: one question would be whether to use the time of the video to drive smil animations in an svg document, or just to use webvtt cue times to show/hide svg fragments
<cyril> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/video.html#handler-texttrackcue-onenter
CC: that's the actual events for the cues
DS: I agree with cyril that there should be non-rectangular regions
CC: how about the timing?
DS: no opinion
CC: silvia was mentioning another
option would be to embed svg content in the webvtt file, and
retrieve the svg from the cue event, put that svg inside the
html document by script
... that would work, but it's a bit complicated
... if there is any interest in this, we can discuss this
trackbot, end telcon
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/colour/color/ WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/Charles/Chaal/s Succeeded: s/Charles/Chaals/ Found Scribe: Cyril Concolato Found ScribeNick: cyril Found ScribeNick: heycam Found Scribe: Cameron Scribes: Cyril Concolato, Cameron ScribeNicks: cyril, heycam Default Present: heycam, Doug_Schepers, +1.317.506.aaaa, cyril, ed Present: heycam Doug_Schepers +1.317.506.aaaa cyril ed Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0111.html Found Date: 18 Aug 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-svg-minutes.html People with action items: cyril heycam[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]