13:48:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:48:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-dap-irc
13:48:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:48:03 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:48:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:48:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:48:06 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:48:06 <trackbot> Date: 17 August 2011
13:48:31 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0020.html
13:49:25 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:49:29 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:49:43 <fjh> Regrets+ Ernesto_Jimenez
13:51:29 <fjh> Present- Robin_Berjon
13:51:37 <fjh> Chair- Robin_Berjon
13:51:41 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:51:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-dap-minutes.html fjh
13:51:45 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
13:52:23 <fjh> Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
13:52:42 <fjh> s/Chair- Robin_Berjon//
13:52:46 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:52:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-dap-minutes.html fjh
13:53:04 <fjh> Regrets+ Robin_Berjon
13:54:00 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:54:07 <Zakim> +??P7
13:54:18 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
13:54:32 <AnssiK> zakim, ??P7 is me
13:54:32 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
13:56:53 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
13:57:02 <nwidell> Present+ Niklas_Widell
13:57:21 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
13:57:29 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:58:26 <Zakim> +??P8
13:58:31 <fjh> zakim, ??P8 is me
13:58:31 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:58:39 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:58:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see AnssiK, fjh
13:58:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see Dzung_Tran, nwidell, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, ernesto_jimenez, dom, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot, lgombos
13:59:17 <SungOk_You> SungOk_You has joined #dap
13:59:42 <JoshSoref> JoshSoref has joined #dap
14:00:30 <Zakim> +rberkoff
14:00:57 <Zakim> +SHayman
14:00:58 <AnssiK> zakim, who's making noise?
14:01:06 <R_Berkoff> R_Berkoff has joined #dap
14:01:10 <Zakim> AnssiK, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AnssiK (9%)
14:01:24 <SungOk_You> Present SungOk_You
14:01:41 <JoshSoref> Zakim, who's making noise?
14:01:42 <fjh> zakim, who is making noise?
14:01:42 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.15.aaaa
14:01:43 <SungOk_You> Present+ SungOk_You
14:01:53 <nwidell> zakim, aaaa is nwidell
14:01:53 <Zakim> +nwidell; got it
14:01:57 <Zakim> JoshSoref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (43%), SHayman (62%)
14:02:07 <fjh> zakim, SHayman is joshsoref
14:02:07 <Zakim> +joshsoref; got it
14:02:08 <Zakim> fjh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AnssiK (5%), fjh (19%), SHayman (69%)
14:02:13 <dom> Zakim, code?
14:02:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dom
14:02:14 <fjh> zakim who is here?
14:02:20 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:02:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see AnssiK, fjh, rberkoff, joshsoref, nwidell
14:02:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see R_Berkoff, JoshSoref, SungOk_You, Dzung_Tran, nwidell, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, ernesto_jimenez, dom, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot, lgombos
14:02:33 <Zakim> +??P12
14:02:35 <Zakim> +??P13
14:02:36 <fjh> s/member:zakim who is here?//
14:02:40 <JoshSoref> Present+ Josh_Soref 
14:02:49 <dom> Zakim, ??P13 is me
14:02:57 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:02:59 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:02:59 <SungOk_You> zakim, +??P12 is me 
14:03:02 <Zakim> +dom; got it
14:03:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see AnssiK, fjh, rberkoff, joshsoref, nwidell, dom, ??P12
14:03:15 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #dap
14:03:16 <Zakim> sorry, SungOk_You, I do not recognize a party named '+??P12'
14:03:19 <JoshSoref> Zakim, ??P12 is SungOk_You 
14:03:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see R_Berkoff, JoshSoref, SungOk_You, Dzung_Tran, nwidell, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, ernesto_jimenez, dom, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot, lgombos
14:03:32 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:03:33 <Zakim> +SungOk_You; got it
14:03:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see AnssiK, fjh, rberkoff, joshsoref, nwidell, dom, SungOk_You
14:03:41 <wonsuk> Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:03:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see wonsuk, R_Berkoff, JoshSoref, SungOk_You, Dzung_Tran, nwidell, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, ernesto_jimenez, dom, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, trackbot, lgombos
14:04:11 <Zakim> + +44.208.144.aabb
14:04:21 <richt> zakim, aabb is me
14:04:21 <Zakim> +richt; got it
14:04:27 <richt> Present+ Rich_Tibbett
14:04:32 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
14:04:44 <R_Berkoff> Present+ R_Berkoff
14:05:04 <Zakim> + +82.31.27.9.aacc
14:05:11 <JoshSoref> s/R/Russell/
14:05:26 <R_Berkoff> Present+ Russell_Berkoff (Samsung)
14:05:33 <fjh> FPWD of "Web Application Privacy Best Practices" has been published, see http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-app-privacy-bp-20110804/
14:05:34 <wonsuk> zakim, +82.31.27.9.aacc is me
14:05:34 <Zakim> +wonsuk; got it
14:06:06 <fjh> Call for participation, AR standards 24-25 October  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0017.html  (Rob Manson)
14:06:27 <JoshSoref> Scribe: JoshSoref 
14:06:32 <JoshSoref> scribenick: JoshSoref 
14:06:47 <JoshSoref> Topic: Minutes Approval
14:06:49 <fjh> F2F #6: 19-21 July 2011 (Paris) 
14:06:49 <fjh> 19 July 2011 minutes (Day 1) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/att-0088/minutes-2011-07-19.html
14:06:50 <fjh> 20 July 2011 minutes (Day 2)  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/att-0098/minutes-2011-07-20.html
14:06:50 <fjh> 21 July 2011 minutes (Day 3) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/att-0100/minutes-2011-07-21.html
14:06:51 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 19-21 July 2011 (F2F) are approved
14:07:13 <wmaslowski> wmaslowski has left #dap
14:07:26 <JoshSoref> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 19-21 July 2011 (F2F) are approved
14:07:47 <JoshSoref> Topic: Battery API
14:07:52 <JoshSoref> fjh: ISSUE-114
14:07:57 <fjh> ISSUE-114?
14:07:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-114 -- Battery spec should note relative ordering of battery low versus battery critical in terms of criticality -- open
14:07:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/114
14:08:03 <fjh> ACTION-426?
14:08:03 <trackbot> ACTION-426 -- Robin Berjon to draft the proposed design of getting rid of battery{low,critical} and adding a field that indicates state=ok/low/critical -- due 2011-07-26 -- OPEN
14:08:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/426
14:08:14 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0099.html
14:08:29 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #dap
14:08:31 <AnssiK> q+
14:08:34 <dom> q+
14:08:42 <fjh> ack AnssiK
14:08:48 <JoshSoref> AnssiK: it's a sound proposal
14:08:57 <JoshSoref> ... i can integrate it into the specificaiton after the call
14:09:02 <JoshSoref> AnssiK: was this in the f2f?
14:09:07 <JoshSoref> fjh: no, it came after
14:09:11 <fjh> ack dom
14:09:15 <JoshSoref> AnssiK: it seems functionally equivalent to the previous one
14:09:18 <JoshSoref> ... so it should work for me
14:09:26 <JoshSoref> dom: i haven't reviewed this in detail yet
14:09:26 <Zakim> + +1.781.266.aadd
14:09:31 <JoshSoref> ... one concern i have is that
14:09:34 <Cathy> zakim, aadd is me
14:09:34 <Zakim> +Cathy; got it
14:09:39 <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:09:40 <JoshSoref> ... would you still be able to register for only getting battery critical events?
14:09:45 <JoshSoref> ... rather than all events?
14:09:54 <JoshSoref> fjh: it seems to limit the events
14:10:05 <JoshSoref> AnssiK: you'd have to register for the
14:10:18 <JoshSoref> ... battery status events
14:10:23 <JoshSoref> ... and ...
14:10:36 <JoshSoref> dom: that seems inefficient if all you care about is criticals
14:10:52 <JoshSoref> fjh: one of the arguments is that it isn't meaningful
14:11:02 <JoshSoref> ... i think that was Josh's arugment
14:11:07 <JoshSoref> [ it was my argument ]
14:11:16 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
14:11:17 <Kihong_Kwon> Kihong_Kwon has joined #dap
14:11:23 <JoshSoref> s/rug/rgu/
14:12:15 <fjh> ISSUE-113?
14:12:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-113 -- AddEventListener in Battery Status has side effects -- open
14:12:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/113
14:12:30 <Kihong_Kwon> Present+ Kihong_Kwon
14:12:32 <fjh> ISSUE-115?
14:12:32 <AnssiK> q+
14:12:32 <trackbot> ISSUE-115 -- Do you get the batterylow event when you're charging and cross that boundary? -- open
14:12:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/115
14:12:51 <JoshSoref> AnssiK: i looked at the XXX and GeoLocation WGs
14:12:55 <JoshSoref> ... and there were two camps
14:12:59 <Zakim> + +46.1.08.01.aaee
14:13:14 <fjh> s/XXX/side effects ISSUE-113/
14:13:14 <JoshSoref> ... one side favored simplicity for the developer over architectural purity
14:13:32 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:13:36 <JoshSoref> ... it seems that the GeoLocation discussion is closed and they are not giving us any guidance
14:14:09 <JoshSoref> AnssiK: I've flagged the battery related emails
14:14:18 <JoshSoref> ... and I'll send a summary with my intentions
14:15:06 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:15:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see AnssiK, fjh, rberkoff, joshsoref, nwidell, dom, SungOk_You, richt, wonsuk, Cathy, +46.1.08.01.aaee
14:15:07 <JoshSoref> fjh: i think francois was being helpful by tossing an action
14:15:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see Kihong_Kwon, Claes, Cathy, wonsuk, R_Berkoff, JoshSoref, SungOk_You, Dzung_Tran, nwidell, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, richt, ernesto_jimenez, dom, ingmar, ilkka,
14:15:11 <Zakim> ... trackbot, lgombos
14:15:31 <fjh> zakim, aaee is claes
14:15:31 <Zakim> +claes; got it
14:15:45 <fjh> s/i think francois was being helpful by tossing an action//
14:16:33 <fjh> Topic: Permissions
14:16:39 <fjh> ACTION-435?
14:16:39 <trackbot> ACTION-435 -- Laszlo Gombos to update the Permissions draft based on f2f discussion and summary email from Robin in planning for FPWD -- due 2011-09-01 -- OPEN
14:16:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/435
14:16:47 <fjh> ISSUE-436?
14:16:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-436 does not exist
14:16:56 <fjh> ISSUE-109?
14:16:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-109 -- We need solid use cases for Feat Perms if it's going to fly -- open
14:16:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/109
14:17:08 <fjh> ACTION-436?
14:17:08 <trackbot> ACTION-436 -- WonSuk Lee to provide an example for Permissions -- due 2011-07-27 -- OPEN
14:17:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/436
14:17:36 <JoshSoref> wonsuk: there's some issues relating to the
14:17:54 <JoshSoref> ... XXY of feature permissions
14:18:20 <JoshSoref> ... I need to talk to lgombos about it
14:18:24 <JoshSoref> ... I will propose something to the list
14:18:33 <JoshSoref> Topic: Sensors
14:18:41 <JoshSoref> fjh: we've had a bunch of use case proposals on the list
14:18:47 <fjh> Ambient, 12http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0103.html (Dzung Tran)
14:18:47 <fjh> Temperature, 12http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0104.html
14:18:48 <fjh> ACTION-439, Bryan 12http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0004.html
14:18:48 <fjh> Semantic Sensor Network XG Final Report 12http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jul/0106.html
14:18:48 <JoshSoref> ... i'm not sure how we should pull the stuff together
14:19:08 <dcoloma> dcoloma has joined #dap
14:20:03 <fjh> will pursue this on the list as those who contributed use cases not on call. Need someone to pull this material together.
14:20:12 <JoshSoref> Topic: Discovery
14:20:18 <JoshSoref> fjh: this isn't a followup
14:20:28 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0018.html
14:20:32 <JoshSoref> ... there was an additional message from richt about automated registration
14:20:39 <JoshSoref> ... by integrating with discovery mechanisms
14:20:54 <JoshSoref> ... there's another item which is related to EU project XXZ
14:20:56 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0024.html
14:21:01 <JoshSoref> s/XXZ/webinos/
14:21:18 <JoshSoref> fjh: richt / Claes : could one of you introduce them?
14:21:29 <JoshSoref> richt: the current proposal is local network
14:21:38 <JoshSoref> ... this message was about extending that to the whole web
14:21:45 <JoshSoref> ... it's in many ways similar to web introducer
14:21:55 <JoshSoref> ... but it's using an automated process and discovery
14:22:03 <JoshSoref> ... reviews and feedback on the list would be great
14:22:11 <JoshSoref> ... it will probably hit the spec in the next few weeks
14:22:37 <JoshSoref> fjh: Claes, can you talk about webinos / its javascript system?
14:22:53 <JoshSoref> Claes: I think it will be interesting for DAP to see the APIs we have defined in webinos
14:22:59 <JoshSoref> ... especially in service discovery
14:23:19 <JoshSoref> ... i tried to give a brief overview of these two apis in my mail
14:23:24 <fjh> Claes message related to both service discovery and sensors, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0024.html
14:23:41 <JoshSoref> ... i encourage everyone to read the input and give feedback
14:24:06 <JoshSoref> fjh: thank you, i think it will take people time to read your message and read the referenced apis
14:24:31 <JoshSoref> Topic: Security
14:24:45 <JoshSoref> fjh: an EU project did an analysis of a number of W3C deliverables
14:24:49 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0006.html
14:24:53 <JoshSoref> ... and concluded there could be more coordination between them
14:24:57 <JoshSoref> [ which shocked no one ]
14:25:07 <JoshSoref> ... they mentioned our work specifically
14:25:10 <fjh> Device API specifications 
14:25:10 <fjh> a. MediaCaptureAPI
14:25:10 <fjh> b. System Information API
14:25:11 <fjh> c. Permissions for Device API Access 
14:25:11 <fjh> d. Device API Privacy Requirements
14:25:34 <JoshSoref> ... we're already reworking (a) and (b)
14:25:43 <JoshSoref> ... they asked for things to be integrated across specs
14:25:48 <JoshSoref> ... which is something we can't do in our WG
14:25:57 <JoshSoref> fjh: dom: did you have something to say?
14:26:00 <JoshSoref> ... do we need more time?
14:26:15 <JoshSoref> dom: yes, we need to look at it, we need more time, and ideally someone needs to take an action item
14:26:36 <fjh> action: fjh to review security issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0006.html 
14:26:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-446 - Review security issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0006.html  [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2011-08-24].
14:26:57 <richt> On other APIs (AOB):
14:26:59 <richt> RE: Network Info API. Anyone been following this bug? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677166
14:27:09 <fjh> please review your open actions, open actions, http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/open
14:27:33 <fjh> Topic: Network information
14:27:50 <JoshSoref> I'll take an action to speak to someone about that
14:27:59 <richt> thanks Josh
14:28:10 <JoshSoref> I don't think that the proposals are a good direction
14:28:31 <Dzung_Tran> BTW: I am working with JOSE from the WAC group on taking what we have in System Info for sensors and what WAC has for sensors and merge them
14:28:38 <JoshSoref> I followed up with PhoneGap
14:28:48 <JoshSoref> ... and i summarized my conversation with Bryan to the list
14:29:13 <fjh> ACTION-438?
14:29:13 <trackbot> ACTION-438 -- Josh Soref to talk to Brian Leroux about the Netinfo API in PhoneGap to ask about uptake and feedback -- due 2011-07-27 -- OPEN
14:29:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/438
14:29:37 <JoshSoref> s/Bryan/Brian/
14:30:00 <JoshSoref> in short...
14:30:12 <JoshSoref> the requirements involve three things:
14:30:18 <JoshSoref> 1. handling the case when you're offline
14:30:18 <richt> Dzung, could be of interest. What's the plan for the resulting spec?
14:30:27 <fjh> ACTION-438: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0022.html
14:30:27 <trackbot> ACTION-438 Talk to Brian Leroux about the Netinfo API in PhoneGap to ask about uptake and feedback notes added
14:30:29 <JoshSoref> 2. dealing with evil networks which kill idle sockets
14:30:36 <fjh> ACTION-438: closed
14:30:36 <trackbot> ACTION-438 Talk to Brian Leroux about the Netinfo API in PhoneGap to ask about uptake and feedback notes added
14:30:36 <trackbot> If you meant to close ACTION-438, please use 'close ACTION-438'
14:30:36 <JoshSoref> 3. adapting to bandwidth constraints
14:30:49 <fjh> close ACTION-438
14:30:49 <trackbot> ACTION-438 Talk to Brian Leroux about the Netinfo API in PhoneGap to ask about uptake and feedback closed
14:30:59 <JoshSoref> the problem is that there's no guarantee that the device will actually be right next to the weakest/evilest link
14:31:06 <JoshSoref> in cases of laptops or tablets
14:31:15 <Dzung_Tran> I will publish a proposal for sensors API once JOSE and I believe it is ready
14:31:23 <JoshSoref> using wifi basestations which are re-sharing cellular connections
14:31:38 <JoshSoref> the information that the browser could expose would lead applications to the wrong conclusion
14:31:50 <JoshSoref> the right thing to do is to discover the constraints by doing what you need and reacting to failures
14:31:57 <JoshSoref> or increasing load if you don't hit failures
14:33:44 <JoshSoref> ...
14:33:59 <fjh> josh notes that applications need to respond intelligently to failures and this is out of the capability of browser, and such netinfo api would be either misleading or not helpful for these cases
14:34:11 <JoshSoref> in the case of websockets it might be possible for the websocket api to have a `please send keepalive pings every X units of  time`
14:34:38 <JoshSoref> And I'm proposing that we change the spec to discourage vendors from implementing it
14:35:15 <JoshSoref> including taking up editing the spec to make those changes
14:35:46 <JoshSoref> My message outlined an algorithm for addressing the concerns
14:36:26 <fjh> Topic: HTML Media Capture
14:36:27 <JoshSoref> ... implementable in current browsers today without api changes
14:36:40 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0023.html
14:36:41 <JoshSoref> fjh: ernesto sent a proposal to the list
14:36:50 <JoshSoref> ... dealing with the accept parameter
14:36:57 <JoshSoref> ... he's proposing a favored sequence
14:37:20 <fjh> ACTION-432: closed
14:37:20 <trackbot> ACTION-432 Make a proposal for ISSUE-116 and ISSUE-117 notes added
14:37:20 <trackbot> If you meant to close ACTION-432, please use 'close ACTION-432'
14:37:29 <fjh> close ACTION-432
14:37:29 <trackbot> ACTION-432 Make a proposal for ISSUE-116 and ISSUE-117 closed
14:37:57 <JoshSoref> Topic: AoB
14:38:07 <richt> AOB... fyi, some general background reading on the state of Device APIs from Opera interns: http://publications.lib.chalmers.se/cpl/record/index.xsql?pubid=143816 
14:38:14 <richt> might be of interest.
14:38:22 <JoshSoref> AnssiK: you're pretty close on battery
14:38:45 <JoshSoref> s/AnssiK/fjh: AnssiK/
14:39:02 <JoshSoref> fjh: permisions is moving forward
14:39:19 <JoshSoref> fjh: we need to hash things out on sensors
14:39:39 <Zakim> -dom
14:39:40 <JoshSoref> fjh: the chairs will meet to talk with the WebRTC
14:39:45 <Zakim> -claes
14:39:46 <JoshSoref> fjh: next meeting next week
14:39:47 <Zakim> -richt
14:39:48 <Zakim> -SungOk_You
14:39:48 <Zakim> -nwidell
14:39:49 <Zakim> -fjh
14:39:49 <Zakim> -rberkoff
14:39:51 <Zakim> -AnssiK
14:39:55 <JoshSoref> RRSAgent: bye
14:39:55 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-dap-actions.rdf :
14:39:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: fjh to review security issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0006.html  [1]
14:39:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/17-dap-irc#T14-26-36
14:39:57 <Zakim> -wonsuk