<scribe> scribe: Andi

aria-activedescendant

DB: hard problem to talk about live

CS: think it's too complicated to do in e-mail

bug 9656

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#presentation

DB: if aria-labelledby points to an element with role="presentation", is that an author error?

CS: no, seems similar to display none

DB: to me "presentation" means visual but not meaningful

CS: maybe it is bad practice

DB: want to understand how people are using it

CS: not sure if it is, may just be something that came from a comment
... label for with display none on it is used fairly regularly
... aria-label is better for that but label for with display none is better for backward compatibility

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_nd

AS: name calculation doesn't say anything about not using aria-labelledby elements if they have role presentation
... if using the accessibility tree for the calculation, the aria-labelledby element won't be there unless it is focusable

FF uses the accessibility tree, IE uses the DOM

AS: so FF won't find it in the accessibility tree unless it's focusable

DB: FF may use accessibility tree & DOM tree
... what does role="presentation" mean?

CS: to me it means turn it into a <div>

DB: spec is confusing here "may be used to provide for an accessible fallback in older browsers that do not support WAI-ARIA."

CS: use case of menu being created with <ul> and <li>s that contain links
... <ul> gets role of menu, link gets role of menuitem, <li> gets role of presentation

DB: feels like an author error to me

CS: could put editorial note asking for feedback on valid use cases

DB: what about aria-labelledby that's pointing to something in a table with role presentation

AS: layout table sounds like a likely scenario

DB: need to find out how people are using it

AS: if not changing the spec, can lower priority and won't impact Last Call or ARIA CR
... can ask James this morning what Safari is doing

CS: confirmed that IE ignores role presentation
... in the name calculation

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Found Scribe: Andi
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Got date from IRC log name: 05 May 2011
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People with action items: 

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