IRC log of webtv on 2011-04-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:52:17 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webtv
13:52:17 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-webtv-irc
13:52:19 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:52:19 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #webtv
13:52:21 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
13:52:21 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:52:22 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
13:52:22 [trackbot]
Date: 19 April 2011
13:52:52 [francois]
Meeting: Home Network Task Force (Web and TV IG) Call
13:52:55 [francois]
zakim, what conferences?
13:52:55 [Zakim]
I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM active
13:52:57 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are T&S_XMLSEC()10:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, IA_Team()10:00AM, XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM, INC_SSN()9:00AM, Team_(MEET)10:00AM, MWI_BPWG()9:30AM,
13:53:00 [Zakim]
... Team_(business)14:00Z, TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM, SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM, Team_(webtv)14:00Z
13:53:18 [francois]
zakim, this will be webtv
13:53:18 [Zakim]
ok, francois; I see Team_(webtv)14:00Z scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:53:34 [francois]
Chair: Giuseppe
13:54:12 [francois]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Apr/0102.html
13:55:06 [kaz]
kaz has joined #webtv
13:55:44 [Zakim]
Team_(webtv)14:00Z has now started
13:55:51 [Zakim]
+??P3
13:55:56 [kaz]
zakim, ??P3 is me
13:55:56 [Zakim]
+kaz; got it
13:57:01 [Zakim]
+ +82.26.91.2.aaaa
13:57:30 [kaz]
zakim, where is +82?
13:57:30 [Zakim]
country code 82 is South Korea
13:57:57 [kaz]
zakim, aaaa is donhyun
13:57:57 [Zakim]
+donhyun; got it
13:58:13 [kaz]
zakim, donhyun is donghyun
13:58:14 [Zakim]
+donghyun; got it
13:58:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.303.503.aabb
13:59:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.613.479.aacc
13:59:23 [christian_soderst]
christian_soderst has joined #webtv
13:59:33 [Zakim]
+Bjorn_Bringert
13:59:48 [Zakim]
+??P14
14:00:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.317.721.aadd
14:00:11 [francois]
zakim, aadd is me
14:00:11 [Zakim]
+francois; got it
14:00:12 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:00:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kaz, donghyun, +1.303.503.aabb, +1.613.479.aacc, Bjorn_Bringert, ??P14, francois
14:00:21 [Zakim]
On IRC I see christian_soderst, kaz, Zakim, RRSAgent, donghyun_kang, jcdufourd, giuseppep, francois, trackbot
14:00:23 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:00:25 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:00:41 [yosuke]
yosuke has joined #webtv
14:00:45 [Zakim]
+ +1.613.479.aaee
14:00:47 [francois]
ack me
14:00:50 [jcdufourd]
zakim, ??P14 is me
14:01:01 [Zakim]
+jcdufourd; got it
14:01:03 [Zakim]
+??P25
14:01:12 [Nilo]
Nilo has joined #webtv
14:01:20 [Zakim]
+Paul_Bagshaw
14:01:28 [kaz]
zakim, aaee is Clarke_Stevens
14:01:28 [Zakim]
+Clarke_Stevens; got it
14:01:42 [Zakim]
+ +81.90.146.3.aaff
14:02:00 [Zakim]
+??P29
14:02:02 [kaz]
zakim, where is +81?
14:02:03 [Zakim]
country code 81 is Japan
14:02:39 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:02:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kaz, donghyun, +1.303.503.aabb, +1.613.479.aacc, Bjorn_Bringert, jcdufourd, francois, Clarke_Stevens, ??P25, Paul_Bagshaw, +81.90.146.3.aaff, ??P29
14:02:42 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Nilo, yosuke, christian_soderst, kaz, Zakim, RRSAgent, donghyun_kang, jcdufourd, giuseppep, francois, trackbot
14:02:50 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
[Samsung]rberkoff has joined #webtv
14:03:04 [igarashi]
igarashi has joined #webtv
14:03:38 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
14:03:48 [aizu]
aizu has joined #webtv
14:03:50 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: francois (45%), +1.613.479.aacc (58%), Clarke_Stevens (78%)
14:04:18 [Zakim]
+ +46.1.07.19.aagg
14:04:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.503.712.aahh
14:04:18 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
14:04:21 [Zakim]
+Nilo_Mitra
14:04:29 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.303.503.aabb (5%), francois (11%), +1.613.479.aacc (72%), Bjorn_Bringert (5%), Clarke_Stevens (63%),
14:04:32 [Zakim]
... +1.503.712.aahh (4%)
14:04:33 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:04:43 [kaz]
zakim, where is +46?
14:04:43 [Zakim]
country code 46 is Sweden
14:04:43 [Clarke]
Clarke has joined #webtv
14:05:01 [giuseppep]
christian
14:05:09 [christian_soderst]
:)
14:05:10 [kaz]
zakim, aagg is Giuseppe,Christina
14:05:10 [Zakim]
+Giuseppe,Christina; got it
14:05:29 [kaz]
zakim, Giuseppe,Christina is Giuseppe,Christian
14:05:29 [Zakim]
+Giuseppe,Christian; got it
14:05:45 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:05:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kaz, donghyun, +1.303.503.aabb, +1.613.479.aacc, Bjorn_Bringert, jcdufourd, francois, Clarke_Stevens, ??P25, Paul_Bagshaw, +81.90.146.3.aaff, ??P29,
14:05:49 [Zakim]
... Giuseppe,Christian, +1.503.712.aahh, Nilo_Mitra, [IPcaller]
14:05:49 [igarashi]
+igarashi, sony
14:05:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Clarke, aizu, igarashi, [Samsung]rberkoff, Nilo, yosuke, christian_soderst, kaz, Zakim, RRSAgent, donghyun_kang, jcdufourd, giuseppep, francois, trackbot
14:05:52 [Clarke]
Clarke is Clarke Stevens from CableLabs
14:05:55 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:05:58 [francois]
scribe: francois
14:06:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kaz, donghyun, +1.303.503.aabb, +1.613.479.aacc, Bjorn_Bringert, jcdufourd, francois, Clarke_Stevens, ??P25, Paul_Bagshaw, +81.90.146.3.aaff, ??P29,
14:06:08 [aizu]
+aizu, TOSHIBA
14:06:08 [Zakim]
... Giuseppe,Christian, +1.503.712.aahh, Nilo_Mitra, [IPcaller]
14:06:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Clarke, aizu, igarashi, [Samsung]rberkoff, Nilo, yosuke, christian_soderst, kaz, Zakim, RRSAgent, donghyun_kang, jcdufourd, giuseppep, francois, trackbot
14:06:15 [Zakim]
+ +358.405.74aaii
14:06:18 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:06:26 [francois]
zakim, who is making noise?
14:06:27 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:06:29 [kaz]
[ please mute yourself when you are not talking ]
14:06:36 [Zakim]
francois, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke_Stevens (81%)
14:06:40 [kaz]
giuseppe
14:06:44 [francois]
giuseppe: Hi everyone, let's start with a quick round of presentation.
14:06:48 [francois]
ack me
14:06:49 [DCorvoysier]
DCorvoysier has joined #webtv
14:06:53 [kaz]
francois from w3c
14:07:39 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:07:39 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:08:28 [narm]
narm has joined #webtv
14:08:32 [kaz]
kaz: another staff contact. tx for participating in this group!
14:08:42 [Zakim]
-kaz
14:09:08 [Zakim]
+??P3
14:09:14 [francois]
russell: Russell Berkoff from Samsung
14:09:31 [kaz]
Present: Giuseppe, Francois, Kaz, Russel
14:09:35 [kaz]
Present: Giuseppe, Francois, Kaz, Russell
14:10:18 [francois]
JanLindquist: from Ericsson, interested to contribute use cases and requirements.
14:10:30 [kaz]
Pressent+ Jon
14:10:38 [kaz]
Pressent+ Narm
14:10:40 [francois]
Narm: from Intel, interested in discussing technologies
14:10:50 [kaz]
Pressent+ Christian
14:10:53 [panze]
panze has joined #webtv
14:10:56 [francois]
Christian: from Opera software
14:11:04 [francois]
Clarke: from CableLabs
14:11:14 [kaz]
Pressent+ Clarke
14:11:30 [kaz]
Pressent+ Jean-Claude
14:11:34 [francois]
jcd: Jean-Claude Dufourd from ParisTech, SVG and other groups in W3C
14:11:34 [kaz]
Pressent+ Tatsuya
14:12:00 [kaz]
Pressent+ David
14:12:12 [kaz]
zakim, Paul_Bagshaw is David_Corvoysier
14:12:12 [Zakim]
+David_Corvoysier; got it
14:12:19 [panze]
Panu Markkanen from Nokia
14:12:22 [francois]
DavidCorvoysier: from France Telecom, attending the IPTV Forum
14:12:25 [Clarke]
Hi Panu!
14:12:28 [kaz]
Pressent+ Panu
14:12:41 [francois]
Panu: attending UPnP/DLNA
14:12:53 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log member
14:13:05 [francois]
Topic: TF Charter
14:13:12 [giuseppep]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Charter
14:13:21 [francois]
giuseppe: goal is to agree on scope and deliverables for this task force
14:13:36 [francois]
... I'd like to know whether it's ok as it is or if you have change suggestions.
14:13:46 [Zakim]
+ +358.405.81aajj
14:13:56 [kaz]
zakim, where is +358?
14:13:56 [Zakim]
country code 358 is Finland
14:14:20 [francois]
... starting from end date: end of July. I'd be the initial moderator.
14:14:27 [francois]
... Comments are welcome
14:14:41 [francois]
ack me
14:15:15 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:15:15 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:15:16 [kaz]
[ zakim, mute me ]
14:15:24 [kaz]
:)
14:15:44 [francois]
Narm: Clarification on meeting slot. Is it fixed?
14:16:22 [francois]
giuseppe: we can revisit if we have feedback. Based on questionnaire, it seems like the best option we have. Unless people object to it, I'd keep it.
14:16:59 [kaz]
kaz: giuseppe, are you planning to hold this call weekly/biweekly?
14:17:30 [francois]
giuseppe: bi-weekly
14:17:57 [kaz]
Present: Giuseppe, Francois, Kaz, Russell, Jon, Narm, Christian, Clarke, Jean-Claude, Tatsuya, David, Panu
14:18:15 [francois]
giuseppe: ref. the scope. The IG is not to write standards, but to work on roadmap, priorities, inputs for working groups.
14:18:18 [Bob]
Bob has joined #webtv
14:18:19 [kaz]
q+ to ask who joined from Finland right before this topic?
14:18:25 [Clarke]
Bob Lund from Cablelabs is also on the phone
14:18:37 [kaz]
Present+ Bob_Lund
14:18:53 [francois]
... On top of use cases, we need to discuss where we'd like this work to be taken forward.
14:19:28 [igarashi]
Present+igarashi
14:19:30 [francois]
... Deliverables is to identify clear gaps and suggest one or more WG charters to fill the gaps, as needed.
14:19:43 [francois]
q?
14:19:43 [kaz]
q?
14:20:02 [francois]
ack me
14:20:14 [kaz]
[ ask who joined from Finland right before this topic? ]
14:20:27 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:20:27 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:20:30 [kaz]
[ so please go ahead ]
14:20:41 [francois]
jan: question regarding the requirements.
14:20:56 [Zakim]
-kaz
14:20:56 [yosuke]
zakim, mute me
14:20:57 [panze]
kaz: I saw 2 participants from Finland on the Wiki. Of those I am here. Dunno about the other one.
14:20:58 [Zakim]
sorry, yosuke, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:20:59 [francois]
... It's a very broad term. Is it in terms of APIs?
14:21:12 [Zakim]
+??P45
14:21:18 [Zakim]
+??P3
14:21:20 [Zakim]
- +1.303.503.aabb
14:21:23 [kaz]
zakim, ??P3 is me
14:21:23 [Zakim]
+kaz; got it
14:21:31 [francois]
giuseppe: my opinion is that we don't have to define APIs, but it's fine to use API examples as a way to present possible solutions.
14:21:32 [kaz]
zakim, who is here?
14:21:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see donghyun, +1.613.479.aacc, Bjorn_Bringert, jcdufourd, francois (muted), Clarke_Stevens, ??P25, David_Corvoysier, +81.90.146.3.aaff, ??P29, Giuseppe,Christian,
14:21:35 [Zakim]
... +1.503.712.aahh, Nilo_Mitra, [IPcaller], +358.405.74aaii, +358.405.81aajj, ??P45, kaz
14:21:36 [JanL]
JanL has joined #webtv
14:21:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Bob, panze, narm, DCorvoysier, Clarke, aizu, igarashi, [Samsung]rberkoff, Nilo, yosuke, christian_soderst, kaz, Zakim, RRSAgent, donghyun_kang, jcdufourd, giuseppep,
14:21:39 [Zakim]
... francois, trackbot
14:21:48 [francois]
... The actual API may look completely different from what we'll propose, but that's ok.
14:22:16 [giuseppep]
q?
14:22:22 [kaz]
q-
14:22:26 [giuseppep]
q?
14:22:57 [francois]
Clarke: we need to have APIs to the extent where they don't interact with architecture.
14:23:37 [giuseppep]
q?
14:23:38 [francois]
giuseppe: we can focus more on the use cases. I don't see a strong disagreement here. Both are valuable inputs for the task force.
14:23:52 [panze]
zakim, +358.405.74aaii is me
14:23:52 [Zakim]
+panze; got it
14:23:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:24:01 [kaz]
q+ to ask something...
14:24:09 [giuseppep]
q?
14:24:10 [kaz]
q- to remove my question...
14:24:19 [Clarke]
I don't think that captures my remark. I think we need to define APIs to enough detail that we come to some conclusion on the architecture
14:24:28 [francois]
BobLund: the combinaison of use cases plus APIs is very useful, I think.
14:25:19 [francois]
jcd: Putting things in text, whether it's API, XML, or text is useful. It should not restrict what is done later on.
14:25:36 [kaz]
zakim, ??P45 is Jean-Claude
14:25:36 [Zakim]
+Jean-Claude; got it
14:26:06 [kaz]
Present: Giuseppe, Francois, Kaz, Russell, Jon, Narm, Christian, Clarke, Jean-Claude, Tatsuya, David, Panu, Bob_Lund, Hiroyuki
14:26:19 [francois]
giuseppe: In the end, I don't think there's any change we need to bring to the charter here for this.
14:27:10 [francois]
... The timeline should be short, so that if we identify gaps, we can move ahead quickly with rec-track deliverables following W3C RF policy.
14:27:46 [francois]
... Once we're done, we'll being the deliverables to the IG, since this needs to be approved by the IG at a whole.
14:28:09 [francois]
... Consensus in the IG does not mean 100% consensus, we can highlight parts where there is no consensus and move forward.
14:28:15 [giuseppep]
q?
14:28:15 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
+rberkoff
14:28:16 [francois]
... Are there questions or comments?
14:28:28 [giuseppep]
ack
14:28:48 [francois]
Russell: I noticed the charter statement has a link to the requirements document. Are we approving the requirements in this discussion also?
14:29:08 [francois]
giuseppe: no. That's just a link to present where the doc that we'll work upon will be.
14:29:30 [francois]
... Once we finish our work, the goal is to have this document be the final one.
14:29:40 [francois]
Russell: thank you. No objection for the charter.
14:29:51 [giuseppep]
q?
14:29:52 [francois]
giuseppe: about the deadline. Does end of July seem reasonable?
14:29:53 [Clarke]
Deadline seems reasonable
14:30:28 [francois]
giuseppe: ok, we can move and consider this draft closed then.
14:30:29 [francois]
q+
14:30:36 [kaz]
q?
14:30:46 [giuseppep]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF#Proposal_submission_process_.5BDRAFT.5D
14:30:49 [francois]
Topic: Proposal submission process and tools
14:31:13 [francois]
giuseppe: I started to draft a proposal for submission process to organize the life of the task force
14:31:33 [francois]
[giuseppe going through proposed process]
14:32:24 [kaz]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/ Issue Tracker page
14:33:05 [francois]
giuseppe: depending on the discussions, the proposal may be merged with the main document by the editor, or not.
14:33:08 [giuseppep]
q?
14:33:12 [francois]
ack me
14:33:20 [kaz]
q?
14:34:09 [francois]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Home Network TF charter is approved as is
14:34:30 [francois]
RESOLUTION: Home Network TF charter is approved as is
14:34:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:34:42 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:34:42 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:34:55 [kaz]
-> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Charter approved charter of HNTF
14:35:11 [francois]
q+
14:35:14 [kaz]
q?
14:35:15 [francois]
ack me
14:35:28 [kaz]
q+
14:35:52 [kaz]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/ Tracker page
14:36:01 [giuseppep]
q?
14:36:03 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:36:03 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:36:36 [francois]
francois: tracker is good! It tracks emails provided ISSUE-xxx appears in the subject or in the body of the email sent to the public mailing-list.
14:36:38 [kaz]
kaz: do we need tutorial for tools?
14:36:42 [kaz]
... e.g. tracker?
14:37:27 [francois]
giuseppe: I don't think we need tutorials. There's some documentation already. Feel free to send questions to fd, kaz, or myself.
14:37:38 [giuseppep]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Use_Cases_Template
14:37:40 [francois]
... If there's no comment on the process, I'd like to touch on the use case template
14:38:03 [francois]
Topic: Use case submission template
14:38:08 [Zakim]
-kaz
14:38:19 [kaz]
zakim, call kazuyuki-skype
14:38:19 [Zakim]
ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:38:21 [Zakim]
+Kazuyuki
14:38:26 [francois]
-> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Use_Cases_Template Use cases template
14:38:45 [francois]
giuseppe: I took the initial suggestion and adapted slightly.
14:39:03 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
+rberkoff
14:39:12 [francois]
... It's good practice to send the submission in text form to the mailing-list for indexing purpose.
14:39:20 [francois]
... Is it good for the purpose we'd like to achieve?
14:39:24 [kaz]
q?
14:39:26 [kaz]
q-
14:39:30 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
+rberkoff
14:39:31 [giuseppep]
q?
14:39:38 [kaz]
q+ rberkoff
14:39:39 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
rberkoff+
14:39:48 [kaz]
ack r
14:40:32 [francois]
russell: don't think things will work well without more diagrams.
14:40:37 [kaz]
[ IRC_TIPS: please use "q+" to add you to the speaker queue ]
14:41:11 [kaz]
q?
14:41:14 [giuseppep]
q?
14:41:17 [kaz]
q+
14:41:19 [francois]
giuseppe: it's not forbidden. If it can be avoided, it's better, but feel free to submit diagrames in binary form if that captures your use case more precisely.
14:41:20 [francois]
ack me
14:41:51 [Clarke]
So the use case submissions will be formatted and placed in the wiki document? Will this be done by the moderator or the submitter?
14:41:54 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:41:54 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:42:09 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
q+ russell
14:42:27 [giuseppep]
q?
14:42:41 [francois]
francois: all for diagrams which usually help understand ideas, tremendously. We're usually more text-based because it's easier to share, but that's not a requirement.
14:43:42 [francois]
kaz: several possible options from attaching the diagram to the mailing-list, a CVS repository on W3C servers, or attachement in a wiki page. All of these options can be used.
14:44:11 [francois]
giuseppe: to reply to Clarke's comment, the idea is that everybody should be responsible for his own submission.
14:44:33 [francois]
... The editor would take care of merging the submission with the main document once submission has been discussed and agreed.
14:44:45 [francois]
q+ to note attachement size limit on mailing-list.
14:44:46 [kaz]
q+
14:44:49 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
q+ russell
14:44:51 [Clarke]
q+
14:45:29 [giuseppep]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF#Proposal_submission_process_.5BDRAFT.5D
14:45:32 [francois]
kaz: So everybody is expected to send their idea through email and moderator puts it on wiki and so on, right?
14:46:01 [francois]
giuseppe: no, submitter is to create the wiki page and the issue.
14:46:08 [kaz]
[ 4. An Editor takes editing responsibilities for the issue. In general the Submitter will also be the Editor but there could be exceptions. ]
14:46:40 [giuseppep]
q?
14:46:42 [francois]
... In general, we'll prefer the submitter to serve as Editor for his own proposal, but there may be exceptions, of course.
14:46:49 [francois]
ack kaz
14:46:59 [kaz]
q?
14:47:05 [francois]
kaz: got it, kind of Wikipedia approach, good.
14:47:23 [kaz]
ack r
14:47:26 [francois]
giuseppe: yes, we don't have a spec, so can't really integrate it directly.
14:47:47 [francois]
russell: I would encourage CVS access so that we can submit use case packages.
14:48:07 [francois]
... I'd be more comfortable with a CVS repository.
14:48:44 [francois]
... and being able to track differences.
14:48:54 [kaz]
q+ to note we can use w3c-archive@w3.org for a package attachment
14:48:57 [francois]
giuseppe: The wiki provides the history
14:49:10 [giuseppep]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions
14:49:53 [francois]
giuseppe: Open discussions would be linked from the page I just pasted. And then in the wiki, we can go back in history if we need to rollback some of the changes.
14:50:04 [giuseppep]
q?
14:50:11 [francois]
ack me
14:50:12 [Zakim]
francois, you wanted to note attachement size limit on mailing-list.
14:51:36 [kaz]
ack k
14:51:36 [Zakim]
kaz, you wanted to note we can use w3c-archive@w3.org for a package attachment
14:51:52 [Zakim]
-Giuseppe,Christian
14:51:52 [giuseppep]
q?
14:51:57 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:51:57 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:52:07 [kaz]
fd: you can use CVS if you need, also you can use w3c-archive to send big attachments
14:52:37 [Zakim]
+Giuseppe,Christian
14:52:52 [kaz]
zakim, who is speaking?
14:53:03 [Zakim]
kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P25 (8%)
14:53:03 [francois]
francois: we may setup a CVS repository, or a Mercurial repository. It's more for code, usually. Ref. attachement, please note size limit on public mailing-list (probably 512KB). Send bigger packages to w3c-archive@w3.org and then link to them from email to public-web-and-tv@w3.org mailing-list
14:53:15 [Clarke]
Clarke was just talking
14:53:40 [kaz]
zakim, ??P25 is Clarke
14:53:40 [Zakim]
+Clarke; got it
14:53:48 [francois]
clarke: agree that we need to organize things. CVS repository is probably an overkill. We need some kind of repository for test cases, though, a listing.
14:54:14 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
q+ russell
14:54:19 [kaz]
q?
14:54:29 [francois]
ack me
14:54:31 [kaz]
ack c
14:54:55 [francois]
giuseppe: If we have a page that lists use cases on the Wiki, would that be enough?
14:55:07 [francois]
clarke: yes, if we create a subdirectory on the wiki, that should be good.
14:55:15 [francois]
giuseppe: feel free to do it yourself.
14:55:26 [kaz]
s/probably 512KB/5MB/
14:55:45 [Clarke]
Wiki is sufficient. Create separate directory for use cases. Can we have a convention to indicate status (e.g. in discussion, resolved, accepted, etc.)
14:56:07 [francois]
russell: would like to see more formal acknowledgement of test case.
14:56:19 [francois]
giuseppe: that's the idea behind the submission process, actually.
14:56:23 [donghyun_kang]
Pressent+ Donghyun
14:56:44 [kaz]
q+ to propose we let advanced participants to use CVS as well though we mainly use wiki
14:57:03 [francois]
... In the bi-weekly, we'll probably go over the open discussions and close items based on discussions that would occur in the meantime. The tracking will be done through Tracker.
14:57:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:57:23 [francois]
russell: it's ok if chairs are going to do the tracking.
14:57:53 [francois]
giuseppe: I'm not going to track everything. People should track their submissions themselves.
14:58:03 [francois]
russell: what about decision tracking?
14:59:01 [kaz]
s/bi-weekly/bi-weekly calls/
14:59:09 [yosuke]
q+
14:59:22 [francois]
giuseppe: depending on the use case, we'll need to assess level of consensus. If there's no consensus, we can record contentious, discard use case or note it's contentious. If there are minor disagreements, we should agree on things and move on, noting caveats if needed.
15:00:06 [francois]
russell: I just want to confirm that issues will be tracked appropriately.
15:00:15 [Clarke]
Can we agree on status terms to avoid confusion? (open, closed?)
15:00:28 [Zakim]
-Jean-Claude
15:00:32 [francois]
giuseppe: yes, we'll close the issue once we agree on the use case, based on consensus.
15:00:33 [kaz]
ack k
15:00:33 [Zakim]
kaz, you wanted to propose we let advanced participants to use CVS as well though we mainly use wiki
15:01:26 [francois]
kaz: I wanted to mention that advanced participants could use CVS if they want to, that's possible. Ref. decision tracking, we can track open issues and decisions during conferences.
15:02:17 [kaz]
q?
15:02:22 [kaz]
ack r
15:02:22 [Juhani]
Juhani has joined #webtv
15:02:23 [kaz]
ack y
15:02:26 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
q+ russel
15:02:27 [francois]
giuseppe: we can adapt the process as needed if it turns out not to be strict enough.
15:02:44 [francois]
zakim, who makes noise?
15:02:44 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, francois.
15:02:48 [francois]
zakim, who is making noise?
15:03:00 [Zakim]
francois, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.613.479.aacc (100%), Clarke_Stevens (13%), yosuke (92%)
15:04:00 [francois]
giuseppe: only participants of the IG can submit use cases. You need to be a W3C member to have access to the tools.
15:04:34 [kaz]
[ everybody can read, but only member participants can write ]
15:04:39 [francois]
... Being a member gives you more weight. We're open to get comments from anyonre, but contributions is reserved to W3C members.
15:04:47 [francois]
... Other questions apart from that?
15:04:51 [giuseppep]
q?
15:04:58 [kaz]
s/... Being/giuseppep: Being/
15:05:19 [francois]
russell: any possibility to hold F2F meetings?
15:05:25 [francois]
giuseppe: it is possible, yes.
15:05:48 [francois]
... It's important to have discussions on the mailing-list, but that doesn't exclude F2F meetings, yes.
15:05:54 [francois]
... If people are willing to meet, we can meet.
15:05:57 [francois]
ack me
15:06:13 [kaz]
q+
15:06:52 [francois]
zakim, mute me
15:06:52 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
15:07:22 [francois]
francois: different groups have different views on the topic. F2F is certainly a great way to move forward.
15:07:24 [kaz]
ack k
15:07:24 [francois]
ack me
15:07:53 [francois]
zakim, mute me
15:07:53 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
15:08:04 [kaz]
q+
15:08:20 [kaz]
ack r
15:08:24 [giuseppep]
ack
15:08:28 [giuseppep]
q?
15:08:58 [francois]
... Happy to setup a questionnaire if someone volunteers to host F2F and a rough idea of when.
15:09:56 [francois]
ack me
15:10:20 [yosuke]
yosuke: I think we should deal with public participation a bit carefully. Because this is the first time we define what the public participation should be in detail. What we've discussed was just 1) using tools and 2) joining meetings are member-participants only.
15:11:23 [francois]
francois: before creating the questionnaire, we'd need someone to host and a rough estimate on when the TF would meet.
15:11:28 [francois]
giuseppe: right.
15:11:32 [francois]
zakim, mute me
15:11:32 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
15:11:39 [kaz]
q+ to ask if anybody here is by chance interested to be a host :)
15:12:17 [kaz]
q?
15:12:23 [francois]
giuseppe: if noone volunteers, we can discuss through email
15:12:49 [francois]
kaz: Just wondering whether somebody on the call would be happy to host such a meeting?
15:13:17 [francois]
russell: it's a possibility to host such a meeting in the US. It would be on the West Coast.
15:13:39 [jcdufourd]
q+
15:13:39 [francois]
giuseppe: let's discuss offline
15:13:47 [francois]
ack kaz
15:13:47 [Zakim]
kaz, you wanted to ask if anybody here is by chance interested to be a host :)
15:13:50 [francois]
ack jcdufourd
15:14:03 [francois]
jcd: how long would this F2F be?
15:14:15 [francois]
giuseppe: up for us to decide. 2 or 3 days.
15:14:38 [francois]
jcd: I could be a host, depending on the date and duration. 2 days in May might be possible for instance.
15:14:58 [francois]
giuseppe: for the length, 2 days is a minimum.
15:15:12 [francois]
... not before end of May.
15:16:01 [francois]
[ I suggests to discuss that offline, there is a minimum number of weeks we need to respect to announce a meeting to IG participants from W3C process point of view. 5 weeks on top of my head ]
15:16:03 [giuseppep]
q?
15:16:11 [francois]
zakim, mute me
15:16:11 [Zakim]
francois was already muted, francois
15:16:28 [kaz]
[ Samsung US and Telecom ParisTech are candidates ]
15:16:33 [francois]
Topic: Open discussions
15:17:05 [francois]
giuseppe: As I said, the idea is to go through open discussions, and see the gist of the discussions, if there's agreement or disagreement.
15:17:48 [Clarke]
I agree with different pages for each use case at least during development. It would help keep things organized and easier to track.
15:17:49 [francois]
... might make sense to have one use case per page so we don't need to approve all of them at once.
15:18:11 [Clarke]
1 1/2 hrs is good
15:18:13 [francois]
... About duration of this call. 1h30, is that ok? Should it be 1h or 2h?
15:18:19 [[Samsung]rberkoff]
q+ rberkoff
15:18:28 [kaz]
ack r
15:18:38 [francois]
echo-says: 1.5 hours is very good
15:18:56 [francois]
russell: I can only do 1 hour at this time slot.
15:19:02 [jcdufourd]
s/echo-says/jcd/
15:19:18 [francois]
giuseppe: understood.
15:19:48 [francois]
russell: I'd need to request a different date if we go for more than 1 hour.
15:20:03 [francois]
giuseppe: right. It will be hard to suit everyone.
15:20:12 [Clarke]
We can make sure we discuss Russel's issues during the 1st hour
15:20:26 [francois]
q+
15:20:35 [JanL]
+q
15:20:41 [francois]
ack me
15:20:52 [panze]
+1 for Clarke. This is a good time slot.
15:20:53 [kaz]
q?
15:20:59 [kaz]
q+ JanL
15:21:47 [francois]
zakim, mute me
15:21:47 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
15:22:16 [kaz]
q+ to mention the possibility we split the TF into sub TFs
15:22:24 [kaz]
q?
15:22:40 [francois]
francois: +1 to Clarke's suggestion. Redoing the questionnaire over and over won't necessarily bring a better slot. Decisions taken during the call can be revisited if you cannot attend the call.
15:22:59 [francois]
ack kaz
15:22:59 [Zakim]
kaz, you wanted to mention the possibility we split the TF into sub TFs
15:23:35 [francois]
kaz: We could hold multiple calls for the task force
15:24:20 [francois]
giuseppe: I don't think it would solve the problem.
15:24:25 [francois]
... Other comments on this?
15:24:36 [giuseppep]
q?
15:24:58 [kaz]
s/task force/task force, e.g., one slot for a specific use case and another for another use case/
15:25:03 [francois]
... I would suggest to keep this timeslot right now. We'll rearrange topics in the agenda for participants who need to drop after an hour.
15:25:09 [francois]
... Let's give it a try.
15:25:16 [francois]
russell: ok, we'll see if it's workable.
15:25:25 [francois]
JanL: question about the requirements document.
15:25:39 [francois]
... There was a question on the mailing-list and I didn't have a clear conclusion.
15:26:04 [francois]
... Separate list of services we're considering, for instance "remote control".
15:27:37 [francois]
giuseppe: since we're not writing specifications, we should be able to capture concepts without being too precise.
15:27:51 [francois]
JanL: having a list of services we want to address would be useful
15:28:37 [giuseppep]
q?
15:28:40 [giuseppep]
ack
15:28:45 [kaz]
q?
15:28:48 [francois]
giuseppe: happy to see what this would look like
15:28:50 [francois]
ack JanL
15:29:10 [francois]
giuseppe: If you can put in writing your proposal, we can discuss that.
15:29:22 [francois]
JanL: OK, I'll propose that to the mailing-list.
15:30:28 [francois]
giuseppe: I'd like to ask people to follow the submission template I proposed, answering questions that are there, so that we can take them during next call. Are there urgent things we need to discuss now or can we continue offline?
15:30:31 [giuseppep]
q?
15:31:03 [Bob]
Bob has left #webtv
15:31:15 [Zakim]
-Clarke
15:31:16 [francois]
... None heard. Next call will be: 3 May 2011 1400Z. Talk to you on the mailing-list. Bye!
15:31:17 [Zakim]
-jcdufourd
15:31:17 [Zakim]
-Clarke_Stevens
15:31:18 [Zakim]
- +1.613.479.aacc
15:31:18 [Zakim]
-David_Corvoysier
15:31:18 [francois]
[call adjourned]
15:31:20 [Zakim]
-Bjorn_Bringert
15:31:20 [Zakim]
-Giuseppe,Christian
15:31:23 [Zakim]
-panze
15:31:28 [Zakim]
-Nilo_Mitra
15:31:29 [Zakim]
-Kazuyuki
15:31:31 [Zakim]
-??P29
15:31:34 [Zakim]
-yosuke
15:31:44 [Juhani]
Juhani has left #webtv
15:31:44 [Zakim]
-francois
15:32:06 [Zakim]
- +1.503.712.aahh
15:32:36 [Zakim]
-donghyun
15:32:41 [Zakim]
- +358.405.81aajj
15:33:17 [panze]
panze has left #webtv
15:37:10 [francois]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:37:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-webtv-minutes.html francois
15:37:16 [giuseppep]
francois, will you send the minutes on the IG list?
15:37:41 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, +81.90.146.3.aaff, in Team_(webtv)14:00Z
15:37:44 [Zakim]
Team_(webtv)14:00Z has ended
15:37:47 [Zakim]
Attendees were kaz, +82.26.91.2.aaaa, donghyun, +1.303.503.aabb, +1.613.479.aacc, Bjorn_Bringert, +1.317.721.aadd, francois, +1.613.479.aaee, jcdufourd, Clarke_Stevens,
15:37:50 [Zakim]
... +81.90.146.3.aaff, +46.1.07.19.aagg, +1.503.712.aahh, Nilo_Mitra, Giuseppe,Christian, David_Corvoysier, +358.405.81aajj, panze, Jean-Claude, yosuke, Kazuyuki, Clarke
16:08:00 [aizu]
aizu has left #webtv
16:23:28 [yosuke]
yosuke has left #webtv
16:24:16 [kaz]
issue-2?
16:24:16 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2 -- Document-level Use Cases -- raised
16:24:16 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/2
16:24:27 [kaz]
oh, it works :)
16:26:44 [giuseppep]
ehe yep let's hope people get used to it quickly
16:26:53 [giuseppep]
after you get used to it is really handy actually
16:27:24 [giuseppep]
kaz, everything ok there (you wrote earthquake...)
17:07:39 [francois]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:08:35 [francois]
i/Topic: Quick round of introductions/giuseppe: Hi everyone
17:08:51 [francois]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:08:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-webtv-minutes.html francois
17:27:58 [francois]
RRSAgent, bye
17:27:58 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items