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19:58:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-webfonts-irc
19:58:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:58:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webfonts
19:58:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
19:58:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
19:58:19 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
19:58:19 <trackbot> Date: 13 April 2011
19:58:38 <Vlad> zakim, this is 3668#
19:58:38 <Zakim> sorry, Vlad, I do not see a conference named '3668#' in progress or scheduled at this time
19:58:47 <Vlad> zakim, this is 3668
19:58:47 <Zakim> ok, Vlad; that matches IA_Fonts()4:00PM
19:59:49 <John> John has joined #webfonts
20:01:02 <Zakim> + +1.250.247.aaaa
20:01:53 <John> zakim aaaa is John
20:02:22 <John> zakim, aaaa is John
20:02:22 <Zakim> +John; got it
20:03:53 <John> Sylvain, are you joining the call?
20:06:55 <Zakim> +sylvaing
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20:07:46 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:10:37 <sylvaing> trackbot-ng, start telcon
20:10:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
20:10:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
20:10:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start 10 minutes ago
20:10:42 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
20:10:42 <trackbot> Date: 13 April 2011
20:10:51 <sylvaing> scribenick: sylvaing
20:11:05 <sylvaing> ...discussing MIME type for web fonts
20:11:40 <sylvaing> vlad: once it was realized that woff already used a MIME type, it wasn't clear what the application was for
20:11:55 <sylvaing> vlad: for a container format, one also needs to know what is inside the container
20:12:20 <sylvaing> vlad: hence the question as to whether a parameter to define the contained type would be necessary
20:12:50 <sylvaing> john: how critical is this for CSS ?
20:13:07 <John> CFF
20:14:32 <sylvaing> sylvaing: not critical for browsers which care about where the request comes from e.g. src descriptor in @font-face
20:14:41 <sylvaing> sylvaing: so which apps need a MIME type ?
20:15:22 <sylvaing> vlad: without explicit knowledge of what applications will use this, we wanted to be explicit
20:16:07 <sylvaing> sergeym: one can be explicit about this in CSS using the format hint
20:19:04 <sylvaing> ...scribe is catching up. We are discussing use-cases where WOFF is not loaded through CSS
20:19:54 <sylvaing> sergeym: do we have any applications in mind where fonts will be downloaded that won't involve CSS ?
20:20:03 <sylvaing> vlad: yes, Java/J2ME apps on a mobile phone
20:22:51 <sylvaing> sylvaing: who's asking for a MIME type ?
20:23:02 <sylvaing> vlad: some font developers
20:24:15 <sylvaing> vlad: they want a set of MIME types that covers not just WOFF but other formats 
20:25:43 <sylvaing> sylvaing: so this is outside WOFF's scope and our WG's ?
20:25:53 <sylvaing> vlad: yes, but we should at least offer our opinion
20:26:12 <sylvaing> vlad: and, for WOFF, should we allow for parameters to describe what is inside the WOFF container
20:26:35 <sylvaing> john: but where do you draw the line ? some people will want to know what kind of layout tables and other features are available
20:27:11 <sylvaing> vlad: in this case there are well-defined limits as to what can be a MIME type
20:29:19 <sylvaing> sylvaing: but if it's ok for CSS format hints to just say woff, why do mime types need extra parameters
20:29:31 <sylvaing> vlad: it's up to the implementation. since we're outside CSS, we don't really know what's needed
20:30:30 <sylvaing> sylvaing: I'm ok with it in principle but it's hard to argue without use-cases
20:30:54 <sylvaing> vlad: right. the discussion at ISO started as 'other types have this therefore fonts should have it' and this started the whole discussion
20:35:21 <sylvaing> john: I was wondering if this could be of use for a mobile phone e.g. windows phone to get a content-type header vs. waiting for the resource to sniff it ?
20:35:42 <sylvaing> sylvaing: nice in principle but experience shows that in practice this header can't be trusted by browsers whether mobile or desktop
20:37:26 <sylvaing> john: for WOFF, we've effectively presumed the use of CSS
20:38:06 <sylvaing> sylvaing: yes, and thus for use-cases that involve WOFF and other formats outside CSS, use-cases would be very helpful
20:42:32 <sylvaing> john: we acknowledge there are use-cases but they are outside web standards and thus beyond WOFF's scope. E.g. use in Blu-ray players does not involve web documents and is not addressed by WOFF or the WebFonts WG.
20:44:04 <sylvaing> ACTION: Vlad to email the WebFonts WG with the proposed response to ISO
20:44:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Email the WebFonts WG with the proposed response to ISO [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2011-04-20].
20:44:08 <John> Looks good
20:46:16 <sylvaing> rrsagent, generate minutes
20:46:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-webfonts-minutes.html sylvaing
20:49:11 <Vlad> trackbot, make minutes
20:49:11 <trackbot> Sorry, Vlad, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
20:49:20 <Vlad> rrsagent, make minutes
20:49:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-webfonts-minutes.html Vlad
20:50:13 <sylvaing> Scribe 101 page: http://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html
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