<trackbot> Date: 08 April 2011

<ChrisL> trackbot, start telcon

<trackbot> Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 08 April 2011

<ChrisL> hi Paul

<paulc> Good morning - getting settled in an airport lounge office - will call in shortly

<scribe> scribe: janina

<kaz> giuseppe from opera

Introductions

giuseppe, introduces himself

<kaz> yosuke, introduces himself

I'm not catching the names ...

<ChrisL> List of Coordination Group members http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=34315

Dan Burnett also introduces himself in this capacity

<ChrisL> you can upload a photo, too

wiki

hcg wiki

<ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/wiki/Main_Page

chris, plan is to use the hcg wiki for upcoming agendas

chris, world readable, but coordination group member writable only

chris, the hope is that this will expedite our work

debby: suggests tracking additional admin details there, scribe list, etc

registries

debby: believe i first raised the question, different positions approaches
... emotion subgroup of multimedia wants to code
... decided not useful to put the coding in the spec
... rather wanted to point to a registry instead
... so issued a emotion vocabulary note
... should publish today
... rejected iana because of lengthy pub time

doug: notes we've been discussing registries for over two years

chris: don't believe we have a consensus position nevertheless

<kaz> dan burnett

<Zakim> Bert, you wanted to clarify the essential point is not registries, but bottlenecks.

dan: likes iana because of maintanace process;

<paulc> HTML WG issue on registry: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27

<Bert> Bert

<kaz> bert bos

bert: concerned over single point of failure

<paulc> WG decision published today: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0204.html

dan: prefers to limit this kind of work to an organization that has demonstrated it knows how to manage it

paul: issue-27 in html-wg relates to this issue, decided today and refutes whether iana has a good procedure
... html rejected both
... describing html decisioning process: starts with bugs, then elevated to issues, proposals and counter-proposals, surveys wg, and chairs attempt to identify the wg decision by looking for weakest objectionable position

doug: i expect to appeal this decision

paul: it's called a formal objection

chris: an interesting document

<ChrisL> but as its 11 minutes old i hadn't read it before

paul: please note the bottom of our decision messages where we point to the process for reopening for reconsideration
... reads from the decision

<ChrisL> ok so the issue can be re-opened with new evidence, or just blocked by a formal objection

<shepazu> [[ http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#WGChairReopen The Chair MAY reopen a decision when presented with new information, including:

<shepazu> additional technical information,

<shepazu> comments by email from participants who were unable to attend a scheduled meeting,

<shepazu> comments by email from meeting attendees who chose not to speak out during a meeting (e.g., so they could confer later with colleagues or for cultural reasons).

<shepazu> ]]

paul: noting html wg trying to get to last call where a long process is expected

<shepazu> I stand corrected

paul: html chairs don't expect to work on objections until candidate cr status

doug: recognizes w3 has little experience, but also has heard of poor experience in iana
... surprised to hear some like iana
... calls out microformats specifically

paul: suggests the evidence described here wasn't in the html survey, thus not considered

doug: understand this an html wg decision about a particular, single registry

paul: yes

doug: perhaps my new information would rather concern a different registry at w3c

paul: reads again from the decision

dan: notes this is one w3 decision from one w3 group
... only reason voice browser decision to go with iana hasn't moved further is that I have yet to do the work on it
... believes there are still strong disagreements on how to proceed aong wgs

<shepazu> +

debby: wonders if we even could have a unified process because of the need to also work with other organizations

dan: may well be possible for w3 to smooth the process for its specs at another organization
... ietf and iana continue discussion on smoothing process between them
... this could happen even if w3c doesn't standardize

doug: agrees
... however, suggests any org is a single point of failure locus
... rather we should look at shared registry with different ways to get into the registry

<ddahl> maybe the w3c should maintain a registry of registries

doug: we've previously discussed a registry process which isn't specifically located at any particular organization
... suggests we hold a conversation like that with the other organizations
... then, once a particular registry is stable, the other orgs mirror

chris: there appears to be the need to indicate that a particularly registry has been requested and is in process
... perhaps that's two queues, or two views of the queue

doug: agrees

dan: like the idea esp for fault tolerance
... concerned how this raises a synchronization problem
... needs to be a normative and definitive point
... so, which registry to trust ultimately?

<yosuke> [ yosuke: Web and TV IG will not need any registry for now, but if we move on to the next step after the IG or during the IG, I mean, creating some standards related to TV, there is strong possibility that we need huge registry. ]

doug: correct, but we're not they
... suggest it's ok to let the market decide

<ddahl> it seems that a TV-related registy might involve working with a totally new organization, e.g. other than iana or Microformats

doug: suggests w3 serve the communities that want to be served by w3, and others go to the other orgs they want

dan: understand, not sure it will work, but willing to consider

<ChrisL> janina: we can easily mirror while saying which is authoritative, like in dns

dan: likes that

paul: has experience with a 'central' registry where some values are delegated to 'sub' registries
... odbc for instance
... supports additional fields that some wanted

<yosuke> s/discuss it for me/for me to discuss it/

chris: noting unicode registry which supports a 'private' use area
... this works

<ChrisL> computer graphics metafile

chris: did not work
... if one used an unusual line style, for instance, has no fallback and shows error
... registering didn't get one anywhere
... this is why svg took a different approach

dan: iana has done this -- top level domains registered at iana, but nothing else
... believe setting up a w3c tree at iana was one proposal

doug: would like to know more on that

<Zakim> ddahl, you wanted to talk about next steps, should we continue discussion or follow up on some of the suggestions that have been proposed?

doug: don't believe this solves single point of failure problem

debby: notes our time is waning, what next on this?

doug: happy to raise this in the team, esp in context of html decision

chris: suggests next time perhaps too soon

debby: next call will be may 6

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Web TV intros continueDoug/Dan/
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FAILED: s/discuss it for me/for me to discuss it/
Found Scribe: janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Bert ChrisL Dan_Burnett Debbie_Dahl Doug_Schepers Giuseppe_Pascale IPcaller Microsoft P11 P15 aaaa burn chris dan ddahl debby doug giuseppep hcg janina joined kaz left paul paulc shepazu trackbot yosuke
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Found Date: 08 Apr 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/04/08-hcg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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