19:56:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
19:56:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-irc
19:56:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:56:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
19:56:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
19:56:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
19:56:13 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
19:56:13 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2011
19:56:43 <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0078.html
19:56:47 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has now started
19:56:54 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
19:57:02 <oedipus> chair: Rich
19:57:07 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
19:57:11 <oedipus> scribenick: oedipus
19:57:34 <oedipus> Meeting: Canvas Subgroup of HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
19:57:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
19:58:18 <Zakim> +Rich
20:00:12 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0075.html
20:01:21 <Zakim> +Chuck_Pritchard
20:01:52 <Downchuck> Downchuck has joined #html-a11y
20:05:25 <Downchuck> http://blog.codinginparadise.org/2010/12/tricks-for-aria-on-ipadios.html
20:05:43 <Downchuck> helpful article for me as I work with ios
20:06:50 <oedipus> http://www.nomensa.com/
20:07:00 <oedipus> http://www.nomensa.com/user-experience/evaluate/ipad-iphone-app-review
20:07:57 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
20:08:19 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0075.html
20:08:49 <oedipus> TOPIC: Strategy for positioning fallback content relative to corresponding canvas UI drawing counterparts
20:09:00 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0443.html
20:10:04 <oedipus> RS: looked at Chuck's path in SVG thing
20:10:10 <oedipus> CP: just talking about PATH element
20:10:30 <oedipus> RS: suggesting what?  PATH for drawing? 
20:10:37 <oedipus> CP: have to do manually in CANVAS
20:11:13 <oedipus> CP: can convert SVG path to series of canvas path commands or reverse -- example of what is available -- first thing IMAGEMAP, if not available can generate PATH -- just an example
20:12:16 <oedipus> RS: bind an object to something being drawn on screen -- how would 1 set dimensions for object on screen -- how to say "here are bounds of this object"
20:12:40 <oedipus> RS: want to say this area i am drawing to is associated with this element, and here is bounding element/clipping rectangle
20:12:49 <oedipus> RS: device context and clipping rectangle, you are done
20:13:19 <oedipus> CP: for arbitrary paths, don't want to lose ability to represent arbitrary path -- curve that only takes op portion of bounding rectangle becomes less useful
20:13:33 <oedipus> CP: keep going back to SVG because in terms of usability, very similar
20:13:40 <oedipus> CP: have example of drawFocusRing
20:14:32 <oedipus> CP: 1 touch event short -- in canvas, if get mouse event, doesn't require pre-binding elements in DOM -- could change title, draw a focus event
20:14:46 <oedipus> CP: with iPhone and iPad 1 more layer of touch events that haven't been exposed
20:14:53 <oedipus> RS: fit testing within a region?
20:14:55 <oedipus> CP: yes
20:15:00 <oedipus> RS: how establish region?
20:15:30 <oedipus> CP: arbitrary -- 2 diff ways: paint to bitmap image and color of fill is mapped over and associated with function call -- quick and dirty to make clickable canvas area
20:15:39 <oedipus> CP: other: keep object with x,y bounding boxes
20:16:03 <oedipus> CP: event elegance -- this is a bounding box i am listening to and will now run through program
20:16:16 <oedipus> CP: point of standards is to give flexibility while having a standard
20:16:28 <oedipus> RS: can't limit to just path?
20:17:13 <oedipus> CP: drawFocusRing works, but is hit-testing based -- don't want to force to redefine every path -- could reuse drawFocusRing with diff name, but requires setting region for each clickable element
20:17:20 <oedipus> RS: would that work for touch devices?
20:17:39 <oedipus> CP: hit-testing and methods are passed -- would work with touch device if events available
20:18:33 <oedipus> CP: canvas on iOS -- click on canvas, thinks is image -- will expose title of image -- have to perform awkward steps -- don't want to pass touch events into canvas DOM until user affirms this is element the user wants
20:18:52 <oedipus> CP: slide finger over link -- give name of link -- set virtual focus on link -- double-TAB to activate
20:19:04 <oedipus> RS: if move finger over can tell if in clickable area?
20:19:16 <oedipus> CP: only when activated -- before, just a canvas blob
20:19:28 <oedipus> CP: once double-TAB element, starts processing events
20:19:48 <oedipus> RS: bound to corresponding element, but what are you using as parameters -- how to glean bounding rectangle
20:20:12 <oedipus> CP: with clicakable use same semantics as drawFocusRing and bind current path to element -- run for each element
20:20:22 <oedipus> RS: seems like a reasonable approach
20:20:46 <oedipus> CP: requires that all clickable areas defined ahead of time rather than after an event -- text clickability can get weird
20:21:03 <oedipus> CP: double-tab on a word, but don't want ot send extra word boundaries if don't have to
20:21:14 <oedipus> CP: if receive events, ARIA handles with activedescendant
20:22:02 <oedipus> CP: awkward on iOS getting events to fire -- brought up on www-dom list fact that what apple introduced is "innovative" and unique -- like a touch hover event
20:22:29 <oedipus> CP: did same thing -- touch hover event not bound or standardized -- if was, could have bounded into hit testing
20:22:57 <oedipus> CP: setClickableArea falls apart if lot of complexity (lots of text)
20:23:06 <oedipus> CP: if dealing with complex app, not as desireable
20:23:23 <oedipus> RS: want to say "take current path to calculate"
20:23:27 <Downchuck> setClickArea(element) ; clearClickableAreas();
20:23:36 <Downchuck> [sic] setClickableAreas
20:23:48 <oedipus> RS: diff btw text and objects -- text has font info so can compute bounding rectangle for text
20:24:06 <oedipus> RS: might be able to deal with that
20:24:24 <oedipus> CP: more innovative user interfaces as touch and canvas implemented more broadly and robustly
20:24:50 <oedipus> RS: apply to text?  such as word processor -- do on each piece of text?
20:25:11 <oedipus> CP: if apply ClickableArea apply to shape -- circle with text make outer circle clickable
20:25:21 <oedipus> RS: but not on each piece of text in circle?
20:25:42 <oedipus> CP: possibility -- a11y and ARIA standardizes things for UI -- use of it will depend on application
20:26:07 <oedipus> CP: might want to allow someone to double-tap to start reading with "you are currently over this word" -- how to do quickly?
20:26:26 <oedipus> CP: circular text box moseOver first thing to tell is word currently over, then speak text block
20:26:42 <oedipus> RS: know in document area, but do hit-testing at word and character level?
20:26:51 <oedipus> CP: when click on RTE, need to know where to put caret
20:27:06 <oedipus> RS: does application rather than system do all the work
20:27:14 <oedipus> CP: depends on application 
20:27:28 <oedipus> s/double-tab/double-tap/G
20:27:48 <oedipus> CP: hit testing is going to be less memory intense -- asynchronous based model works better
20:28:25 <oedipus> RS: would be good if could bind hit testing to an element
20:28:34 <oedipus> RS: more than a11y impact
20:28:49 <oedipus> CP: make things easier to program
20:29:11 <oedipus> RS: need to float this concept to WG -- setClickableRegion
20:29:24 <oedipus> CP: RS float that, i will float "touch hover" concept
20:29:35 <oedipus> schepers@w3.org
20:30:11 <oedipus> TOPIC: Chuck Pritchard update on working modification to simulator caret tracking
20:30:14 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0079.html
20:30:30 <oedipus> CP: hasn't progressed -- still at 1 character right now -- grabbing focus for ZoomText
20:30:42 <oedipus> TOPIC: Outstanding Bugs and Issues Being Monitored
20:30:51 <oedipus> RS: nothing moved on any?
20:31:04 <oedipus> CP: no -- nearly got WebKit to consider resolution of pixels
20:31:10 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11328
20:31:13 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11329
20:31:15 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11342
20:31:18 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12214
20:31:21 <oedipus> Issue 131: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
20:31:43 <oedipus> RS: submitted as editorial issue
20:32:07 <oedipus> CP: should be addressed; just a bit of pushback from webkit community about shadow DOM, but not too hard a pushback
20:32:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
20:32:44 <oedipus> RS: thought webkit ok with response we gave them
20:32:52 <oedipus> CP: need to let it get into codebase
20:33:04 <oedipus> RS: if not moving, need to ping apple people to find out why
20:33:26 <oedipus> CP: give it 2 days -- webkit collective discussed as group last week
20:33:30 <oedipus> RS: regular meetings?
20:33:37 <oedipus> CP: no -- converse over bug reports
20:33:51 <oedipus> RS: conncected to WHATWG?
20:33:59 <oedipus> CP: no directly with webkit bug tracker
20:34:22 <oedipus> RS: travelling to CSUN -- could discuss canvas a11y at satruday/sunday f2f
20:34:35 <oedipus> CP: not yet gotten tickets
20:35:08 <oedipus> RS: face2face meeting in San Diego 
20:35:22 <oedipus> RS: first time i can host a canvas call will be 28 March 2011
20:35:56 <oedipus> CP: apple is 1 developer who have made the leap so far -- only full screen touch interface widely available
20:36:08 <oedipus> RS: will float by maciej
20:36:17 <oedipus> [ADJOURNED]
20:36:22 <Zakim> -Chuck_Pritchard
20:36:26 <Zakim> -Rich
20:36:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
20:36:39 <oedipus> zakim, please part
20:36:40 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Rich, Chuck_Pritchard
20:36:40 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
20:36:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
20:37:55 <oedipus> s/double-TAB/double-tap/G
20:37:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
20:52:05 <RRSAgent> I see no action items