IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-03-07
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 19:56:08 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
- 19:56:08 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-irc
- 19:56:10 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 19:56:10 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #html-a11y
- 19:56:12 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 2119
- 19:56:12 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
- 19:56:13 [trackbot]
- Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 19:56:13 [trackbot]
- Date: 07 March 2011
- 19:56:43 [oedipus]
- agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0078.html
- 19:56:47 [Zakim]
- WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has now started
- 19:56:54 [Zakim]
- +Gregory_Rosmaita
- 19:57:02 [oedipus]
- chair: Rich
- 19:57:07 [oedipus]
- scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
- 19:57:11 [oedipus]
- scribenick: oedipus
- 19:57:34 [oedipus]
- Meeting: Canvas Subgroup of HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 19:57:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 19:58:18 [Zakim]
- +Rich
- 20:00:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0075.html
- 20:01:21 [Zakim]
- +Chuck_Pritchard
- 20:01:52 [Downchuck]
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- 20:05:25 [Downchuck]
- http://blog.codinginparadise.org/2010/12/tricks-for-aria-on-ipadios.html
- 20:05:43 [Downchuck]
- helpful article for me as I work with ios
- 20:06:50 [oedipus]
- http://www.nomensa.com/
- 20:07:00 [oedipus]
- http://www.nomensa.com/user-experience/evaluate/ipad-iphone-app-review
- 20:07:57 [Judy]
- Judy has joined #html-a11y
- 20:08:19 [richardschwerdtfe]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0075.html
- 20:08:49 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: Strategy for positioning fallback content relative to corresponding canvas UI drawing counterparts
- 20:09:00 [oedipus]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0443.html
- 20:10:04 [oedipus]
- RS: looked at Chuck's path in SVG thing
- 20:10:10 [oedipus]
- CP: just talking about PATH element
- 20:10:30 [oedipus]
- RS: suggesting what? PATH for drawing?
- 20:10:37 [oedipus]
- CP: have to do manually in CANVAS
- 20:11:13 [oedipus]
- CP: can convert SVG path to series of canvas path commands or reverse -- example of what is available -- first thing IMAGEMAP, if not available can generate PATH -- just an example
- 20:12:16 [oedipus]
- RS: bind an object to something being drawn on screen -- how would 1 set dimensions for object on screen -- how to say "here are bounds of this object"
- 20:12:40 [oedipus]
- RS: want to say this area i am drawing to is associated with this element, and here is bounding element/clipping rectangle
- 20:12:49 [oedipus]
- RS: device context and clipping rectangle, you are done
- 20:13:19 [oedipus]
- CP: for arbitrary paths, don't want to lose ability to represent arbitrary path -- curve that only takes op portion of bounding rectangle becomes less useful
- 20:13:33 [oedipus]
- CP: keep going back to SVG because in terms of usability, very similar
- 20:13:40 [oedipus]
- CP: have example of drawFocusRing
- 20:14:32 [oedipus]
- CP: 1 touch event short -- in canvas, if get mouse event, doesn't require pre-binding elements in DOM -- could change title, draw a focus event
- 20:14:46 [oedipus]
- CP: with iPhone and iPad 1 more layer of touch events that haven't been exposed
- 20:14:53 [oedipus]
- RS: fit testing within a region?
- 20:14:55 [oedipus]
- CP: yes
- 20:15:00 [oedipus]
- RS: how establish region?
- 20:15:30 [oedipus]
- CP: arbitrary -- 2 diff ways: paint to bitmap image and color of fill is mapped over and associated with function call -- quick and dirty to make clickable canvas area
- 20:15:39 [oedipus]
- CP: other: keep object with x,y bounding boxes
- 20:16:03 [oedipus]
- CP: event elegance -- this is a bounding box i am listening to and will now run through program
- 20:16:16 [oedipus]
- CP: point of standards is to give flexibility while having a standard
- 20:16:28 [oedipus]
- RS: can't limit to just path?
- 20:17:13 [oedipus]
- CP: drawFocusRing works, but is hit-testing based -- don't want to force to redefine every path -- could reuse drawFocusRing with diff name, but requires setting region for each clickable element
- 20:17:20 [oedipus]
- RS: would that work for touch devices?
- 20:17:39 [oedipus]
- CP: hit-testing and methods are passed -- would work with touch device if events available
- 20:18:33 [oedipus]
- CP: canvas on iOS -- click on canvas, thinks is image -- will expose title of image -- have to perform awkward steps -- don't want to pass touch events into canvas DOM until user affirms this is element the user wants
- 20:18:52 [oedipus]
- CP: slide finger over link -- give name of link -- set virtual focus on link -- double-TAB to activate
- 20:19:04 [oedipus]
- RS: if move finger over can tell if in clickable area?
- 20:19:16 [oedipus]
- CP: only when activated -- before, just a canvas blob
- 20:19:28 [oedipus]
- CP: once double-TAB element, starts processing events
- 20:19:48 [oedipus]
- RS: bound to corresponding element, but what are you using as parameters -- how to glean bounding rectangle
- 20:20:12 [oedipus]
- CP: with clicakable use same semantics as drawFocusRing and bind current path to element -- run for each element
- 20:20:22 [oedipus]
- RS: seems like a reasonable approach
- 20:20:46 [oedipus]
- CP: requires that all clickable areas defined ahead of time rather than after an event -- text clickability can get weird
- 20:21:03 [oedipus]
- CP: double-tab on a word, but don't want ot send extra word boundaries if don't have to
- 20:21:14 [oedipus]
- CP: if receive events, ARIA handles with activedescendant
- 20:22:02 [oedipus]
- CP: awkward on iOS getting events to fire -- brought up on www-dom list fact that what apple introduced is "innovative" and unique -- like a touch hover event
- 20:22:29 [oedipus]
- CP: did same thing -- touch hover event not bound or standardized -- if was, could have bounded into hit testing
- 20:22:57 [oedipus]
- CP: setClickableArea falls apart if lot of complexity (lots of text)
- 20:23:06 [oedipus]
- CP: if dealing with complex app, not as desireable
- 20:23:23 [oedipus]
- RS: want to say "take current path to calculate"
- 20:23:27 [Downchuck]
- setClickArea(element) ; clearClickableAreas();
- 20:23:36 [Downchuck]
- [sic] setClickableAreas
- 20:23:48 [oedipus]
- RS: diff btw text and objects -- text has font info so can compute bounding rectangle for text
- 20:24:06 [oedipus]
- RS: might be able to deal with that
- 20:24:24 [oedipus]
- CP: more innovative user interfaces as touch and canvas implemented more broadly and robustly
- 20:24:50 [oedipus]
- RS: apply to text? such as word processor -- do on each piece of text?
- 20:25:11 [oedipus]
- CP: if apply ClickableArea apply to shape -- circle with text make outer circle clickable
- 20:25:21 [oedipus]
- RS: but not on each piece of text in circle?
- 20:25:42 [oedipus]
- CP: possibility -- a11y and ARIA standardizes things for UI -- use of it will depend on application
- 20:26:07 [oedipus]
- CP: might want to allow someone to double-tap to start reading with "you are currently over this word" -- how to do quickly?
- 20:26:26 [oedipus]
- CP: circular text box moseOver first thing to tell is word currently over, then speak text block
- 20:26:42 [oedipus]
- RS: know in document area, but do hit-testing at word and character level?
- 20:26:51 [oedipus]
- CP: when click on RTE, need to know where to put caret
- 20:27:06 [oedipus]
- RS: does application rather than system do all the work
- 20:27:14 [oedipus]
- CP: depends on application
- 20:27:28 [oedipus]
- s/double-tab/double-tap/G
- 20:27:48 [oedipus]
- CP: hit testing is going to be less memory intense -- asynchronous based model works better
- 20:28:25 [oedipus]
- RS: would be good if could bind hit testing to an element
- 20:28:34 [oedipus]
- RS: more than a11y impact
- 20:28:49 [oedipus]
- CP: make things easier to program
- 20:29:11 [oedipus]
- RS: need to float this concept to WG -- setClickableRegion
- 20:29:24 [oedipus]
- CP: RS float that, i will float "touch hover" concept
- 20:29:35 [oedipus]
- schepers@w3.org
- 20:30:11 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: Chuck Pritchard update on working modification to simulator caret tracking
- 20:30:14 [oedipus]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0079.html
- 20:30:30 [oedipus]
- CP: hasn't progressed -- still at 1 character right now -- grabbing focus for ZoomText
- 20:30:42 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: Outstanding Bugs and Issues Being Monitored
- 20:30:51 [oedipus]
- RS: nothing moved on any?
- 20:31:04 [oedipus]
- CP: no -- nearly got WebKit to consider resolution of pixels
- 20:31:10 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11328
- 20:31:13 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11329
- 20:31:15 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11342
- 20:31:18 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12214
- 20:31:21 [oedipus]
- Issue 131: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
- 20:31:43 [oedipus]
- RS: submitted as editorial issue
- 20:32:07 [oedipus]
- CP: should be addressed; just a bit of pushback from webkit community about shadow DOM, but not too hard a pushback
- 20:32:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 20:32:44 [oedipus]
- RS: thought webkit ok with response we gave them
- 20:32:52 [oedipus]
- CP: need to let it get into codebase
- 20:33:04 [oedipus]
- RS: if not moving, need to ping apple people to find out why
- 20:33:26 [oedipus]
- CP: give it 2 days -- webkit collective discussed as group last week
- 20:33:30 [oedipus]
- RS: regular meetings?
- 20:33:37 [oedipus]
- CP: no -- converse over bug reports
- 20:33:51 [oedipus]
- RS: conncected to WHATWG?
- 20:33:59 [oedipus]
- CP: no directly with webkit bug tracker
- 20:34:22 [oedipus]
- RS: travelling to CSUN -- could discuss canvas a11y at satruday/sunday f2f
- 20:34:35 [oedipus]
- CP: not yet gotten tickets
- 20:35:08 [oedipus]
- RS: face2face meeting in San Diego
- 20:35:22 [oedipus]
- RS: first time i can host a canvas call will be 28 March 2011
- 20:35:56 [oedipus]
- CP: apple is 1 developer who have made the leap so far -- only full screen touch interface widely available
- 20:36:08 [oedipus]
- RS: will float by maciej
- 20:36:17 [oedipus]
- [ADJOURNED]
- 20:36:22 [Zakim]
- -Chuck_Pritchard
- 20:36:26 [Zakim]
- -Rich
- 20:36:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 20:36:39 [oedipus]
- zakim, please part
- 20:36:40 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Rich, Chuck_Pritchard
- 20:36:40 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #html-a11y
- 20:36:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 20:37:55 [oedipus]
- s/double-TAB/double-tap/G
- 20:37:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 20:52:05 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items