14:53:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:53:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-rif-irc
14:53:16 <csma> rrsagent, make log public
14:53:23 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-rif-minutes.html csma
14:54:04 <csma> Meeting: RIF telecon 28 September 2010
14:54:11 <csma> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Sep/0044.html
14:54:23 <csma> Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
14:55:54 <csma> zakim, clear agenda
14:55:54 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:56:00 <csma> agendum+ Admin
14:56:07 <csma> agendum+ liaisons
14:56:14 <csma> agendum+ Action review
14:56:35 <csma> agendum+ RIF Primer
14:56:52 <csma> agendum+RIF-XML data combination
14:57:04 <csma> agendum+ UCR
14:57:10 <csma> agendum+ RIF in RDF
14:57:21 <csma> agendum+ Tests
14:57:28 <csma> agendum + AOB
14:59:41 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:59:47 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:00:09 <Leora> Leora has joined #rif
15:00:36 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:00:36 <Zakim> +Leora_Morgenstern
15:01:32 <Zakim> +??P24
15:02:27 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:03:07 <Zakim> + +1.631.833.aaaa
15:03:20 <MichaelKifer> zakim, aaaa is me
15:03:20 <Zakim> +MichaelKifer; got it
15:04:11 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
15:04:12 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
15:05:01 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:05:06 <mdean> mdean has joined #rif
15:05:20 <Harold> zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:05:20 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:05:32 <csma> I have difficulties with the french Zakim...
15:05:54 <csma> Mike, can you scribe today, please?
15:06:27 <Zakim> +csma
15:06:34 <APaschke> APaschke has joined #rif
15:08:05 <csma> Scribe: Dave Reynolds
15:08:08 <DaveReynolds> scribenick: DaveReynolds
15:08:12 <DaveReynolds> scribe: Dave Reynolds
15:08:26 <csma> next item
15:08:43 <csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Sep/att-0028/21-rif-minutes.html
15:09:01 <csma> PROPOSED: Approve the minutes from 21 September
15:09:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:09:17 <APaschke> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:09:17 <Zakim> +APaschke; got it
15:09:24 <Harold> +1
15:09:25 <csma> RESOLVED: Approve the minutes from 21 September
15:09:26 <APaschke> +1
15:09:26 <MichaelKifer> +1
15:09:48 <mdean> +1
15:10:39 <DaveReynolds> Sandro: this is the last telecon, plan is to request a "dormant extension" as OWL1.1, the working group will remain in name and still able to make decisions but no allocated staff time.
15:11:15 <DaveReynolds> sandro: it will be possible to do errata fixes but certainly not take on any new work
15:11:36 <DaveReynolds> sandro: not approved but don't anticipate difficulties
15:12:51 <DaveReynolds> csma: gives slight room to do editorial corrections on the final documents, for publication, but not substantive changes
15:14:07 <DaveReynolds> csma: if someone wants to do work on RIF, e.g. a new dialect, that would require a new charter
15:14:34 <sandro> sandro: right
15:14:45 <DaveReynolds> csma: so this is the last regular telecon, though might have to convene if there is some errata to consider
15:16:06 <DaveReynolds> csma points out question from Ontoprise concerning empty arg elements, schema says it is optional (as does PRD) but BLD/FLD do not mark it as optional
15:17:23 <csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-dev/2010Sep/0000.html
15:18:33 <DaveReynolds> harold: agree that it is supposed to be optional
15:18:52 <DaveReynolds> csma: will reply to Thomas
15:18:59 <DaveReynolds> csma: do we need an erratum
15:19:22 <DaveReynolds> harold: will check and respond to csma
15:20:19 <sandro> Here is the Errata page: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Errata
15:20:58 <sandro> (it's linked from each of the Recommendations.)
15:21:11 <Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Mapping_of_the_Condition_Language
15:21:12 <DaveReynolds> csma clarifies that errata only apply to to the published documents, not to the drafts currently in progress
15:22:24 <Harold> n greater or equal 0.
15:22:26 <DaveReynolds> harold: in the mapping table it states N >= 0, which implies optionality already, so no erratum needed
15:22:50 <DaveReynolds> csma will respond to Thomas to that effect
15:23:23 <DaveReynolds> sandro: the wiki will stay open for the foreseeable future
15:23:48 <csma> next item
15:25:09 <DaveReynolds> sandro: correcting typos and such responsible edits are fine
15:25:35 <DaveReynolds> sandro: people should also update the FAQ as appropriate
15:26:17 <DaveReynolds> sandro: non-trivial fixes would require an erratum on the erratum page, plus changing source text
15:26:52 <DaveReynolds> sandro: before any publication of updated text there is still a review period
15:27:22 <DaveReynolds> csma: substantive changes that would affect interoperability are clearly out of scope
15:27:50 <DaveReynolds> sandro: if there is some serious error discovered we should discuss it to decide what to do
15:28:21 <APaschke> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:28:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Leora_Morgenstern, DaveReynolds, MichaelKifer, Mike_Dean, Harold, csma, APaschke
15:28:34 <csma> next item
15:30:54 <DaveReynolds> action-1056, continued so csma can take comments into account for next publication
15:31:51 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:31:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Leora_Morgenstern, DaveReynolds, MichaelKifer, Mike_Dean, Harold, csma, APaschke
15:32:22 <DaveReynolds> csma: deadline this weekend would mean document could be complete by next Tuesday
15:33:09 <DaveReynolds> action-1055 closed
15:33:09 <trackbot> ACTION-1055 Contribute a PRD section like the BLD section (5.1) to the Primer closed
15:33:56 <DaveReynolds> action-1052 closed
15:33:56 <trackbot> ACTION-1052 Send email to Gary and sandro re reviewing Primer closed
15:34:58 <DaveReynolds> action-1045 not done but really falls under SPARQL at this point
15:35:08 <DaveReynolds> action-1045 closed
15:35:08 <trackbot> ACTION-1045 Write down owl direct vs OWL RDF test case and confirm with Birte closed
15:35:34 <DaveReynolds> action-1042 closed
15:35:34 <trackbot> ACTION-1042 Ping EricP on Primer closed
15:36:07 <DaveReynolds> action-1036 closed
15:36:07 <trackbot> ACTION-1036 Review RIF Primer by August 27 closed
15:36:16 <DaveReynolds> action-1035 closed
15:36:16 <trackbot> ACTION-1035 T oreview RIF Primer by August 27 closed
15:36:34 <DaveReynolds> action-1012 closed  (obsolete)
15:36:34 <trackbot> ACTION-1012 Review all test cases for use of "importProfile" wiki attribute closed
15:36:42 <DaveReynolds> action-1011 closed  (obsolete)
15:36:42 <trackbot> ACTION-1011 Add an import rejection test case for an empty rdf file closed
15:38:12 <DaveReynolds> action-152 closed
15:38:12 <trackbot> ACTION-152 Propose test cases for UC1 closed
15:39:14 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/103
15:39:26 <DaveReynolds> issue-103 is obsoleted by changes in RDF+XML document
15:39:30 <DaveReynolds> issue-103 closed
15:39:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-103 Deviations from XDM in RIF+XML-data may preclude re-using code developed for XDM closed
15:39:52 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/104
15:40:04 <DaveReynolds> issue-104 closed (obsoleted by changes to RDF+XML to use xpath)
15:40:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-104 NCNames in RIF+XML data closed
15:40:14 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/105
15:41:08 <DaveReynolds> sandro: issue-105 has been resolved by out decision to include rif:usedWithProfile
15:41:58 <DaveReynolds> s/out/our/
15:42:04 <DaveReynolds> issue-105 closed
15:42:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-105 Importing RIF into RDF documents closed
15:42:24 <csma> next item
15:43:04 <DaveReynolds> leora: have comments from Stella, Gary, Sandro
15:43:21 <DaveReynolds> leora: addressed comments from Stella but others need to be actioned
15:43:40 <DaveReynolds> leora: adding material for PRD, based on Gary's suggestions
15:43:57 <DaveReynolds> leora: some of Sandro's comments are substantive and will take a few days to work through
15:44:51 <DaveReynolds> leora: email dialogue with reviewers should be enough
15:45:25 <DaveReynolds> leora: would like reviewers to check changes once they are made
15:46:23 <DaveReynolds> csma: suggest approving document subject to final changes and approval by reviews
15:46:30 <sandro> PROPOSED: Leora with work with reviewers to make edits that she and they are happy with, and when they all agree, we publish RIF Primer
15:46:32 <DaveReynolds> s/reviews/reviewers/
15:48:24 <csma> PROPOSED: the editors ( Leora, Chris, Harold) will work with reviewers to make edits that she and they are happy with, and when they all agree, we publish RIF Primer
15:48:59 <csma> PROPOSED: the editors ( Leora, Chris, Harold) will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, we publish RIF Primer
15:49:42 <sandro> PROPOSED: the editors ( Leora, Chris, Harold) will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF Primer.
15:49:50 <sandro> +1 (W3C0
15:49:55 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
15:50:22 <Leora> +1
15:51:12 <Harold> +1
15:51:14 <sandro> PROPOSED: the editors ( Leora, Chris, Harold) will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF Primer.  Silence means agreement.  
15:51:27 <APaschke> +1
15:52:28 <sandro> PROPOSED: for these publications, e-mail silence for 48 hours constitutes agreement.
15:53:03 <sandro> PROPOSED: for these publications, e-mail silence for 48 hours constitutes agreement. (not counting this thurs-fri-sat)
15:53:19 <csma> PROPOSED: the editors ( Leora, Chris, Harold) will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF Primer. Silence means agreement. 
15:53:24 <DaveReynolds> +1 
15:53:33 <csma> PROPOSED: the editors ( Leora, Chris, Harold) will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF Primer.
15:53:36 <DaveReynolds> +1 
15:53:37 <sandro> +1
15:53:39 <APaschke> +1
15:53:40 <csma> +1
15:53:42 <MichaelKifer> +1
15:53:42 <Leora> +1
15:53:43 <Harold> +1
15:53:59 <csma> RESOLVED: the editors ( Leora, Chris, Harold) will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF Primer.
15:54:42 <csma> next item
15:55:34 <DaveReynolds> csma: partway through integrating Gary's comments, awaiting Adrian's comments, others will not have time to review
15:56:11 <csma> PROPOSED: csma  will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF-XML data.
15:56:27 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:56:30 <Leora> +1
15:56:33 <csma> +1
15:56:42 <APaschke> +1
15:56:46 <sandro> +1
15:57:00 <Harold> +1
15:57:17 <MichaelKifer> +1
15:57:21 <csma> RESOLVED: csma will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF-XML data.
15:58:00 <csma> next item
15:58:36 <DaveReynolds> leora: need to add pointer to deontic logic, minor edit
15:58:54 <DaveReynolds> adrian: made changes agreed last week, flattened list of requirements
15:59:45 <csma> Sandro Hawke begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting (email), W3C, Staff contact 
16:01:28 <APaschke> just removed
16:01:39 <csma> PROPOSED: Adrian and Leora will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing UCR.
16:02:04 <Leora> +1
16:02:06 <csma> +1
16:02:27 <DaveReynolds> +1
16:02:31 <APaschke> Stella reviewed it
16:02:34 <sandro> +1
16:03:30 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:05:14 <csma> PROPOSED: Adrian and Leora will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing UCR.
16:05:15 <APaschke> +1
16:05:30 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
16:05:45 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:05:45 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:05:49 <csma> PROPOSED: Adrian and Leora will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing UCR.
16:05:51 <ChrisW> +1
16:06:21 <csma> RESOLVED: : Adrian and Leora will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing UCR.
16:06:35 <csma> next item
16:07:20 <DaveReynolds> sandro: not finished working through review from Dave
16:07:37 <DaveReynolds> sandro: Dave and Axel have reached concensus on the usedWithProfile issue
16:08:02 <DaveReynolds> sandro: so just editorial work to complete it
16:08:18 <csma> PROPOSED: Sandro will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing UCR.
16:08:36 <csma> q?
16:09:40 <csma> PROPOSED: Sandro will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF in RDF
16:09:41 <DaveReynolds> leora also reviewed document, comments not dealt with yet
16:09:58 <DaveReynolds> sandro: will add Axel as an editor
16:10:10 <csma> PROPOSED: Sandro and Axel will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF in RDF
16:10:18 <sandro> +1
16:10:20 <DaveReynolds> +1
16:10:25 <csma> +1
16:10:26 <Harold> +1
16:10:27 <Leora> +1
16:10:33 <ChrisW> +1
16:10:35 <MichaelKifer> +1
16:10:44 <csma> RESOLVED: Sandro and Axel will work with reviewers to make edits that they are happy with, and when they all agree, Sandro will proceed with publishing RIF in RDF
16:10:45 <APaschke> +1
16:11:09 <csma> next item
16:11:26 <csma> zakim does not think correctly
16:11:45 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 8
16:11:45 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Tests" taken up [from csma]
16:12:44 <DaveReynolds> leora: Test cases document is fine
16:13:40 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/index.php?title=Test&diff=13824&oldid=12720
16:13:48 <DaveReynolds> sandro: once change since last publication, by Harold
16:14:41 <DaveReynolds> sandro: but seems to be a null change
16:16:11 <DaveReynolds> s/once/one/
16:17:28 <DaveReynolds> csma: we have Primer, XML Data, RIF in RDF, UCR, RIF Test
16:17:31 <sandro> the rif test change was "dialect(" to "dialect (", a small typo fix.
16:17:42 <DaveReynolds> csma: primer proposed as a note
16:17:51 <DaveReynolds> csma: XML Data proposed as a working draft
16:18:03 <DaveReynolds> csma: Test as a Note
16:19:07 <csma> PROPOSED: Publish Primer as a note, RIF-XML data as WD, UCR as note, RIF in RDF as note, RIF test as note
16:19:22 <sandro> +1
16:19:31 <DaveReynolds> +1
16:19:33 <csma> +1
16:19:37 <Leora> +1
16:19:38 <ChrisW> +1
16:19:40 <Harold> +1
16:19:41 <APaschke> +1
16:19:55 <csma> RESOLVED: Publish Primer as a note, RIF-XML data as WD, UCR as note, RIF in RDF as note, RIF test as note
16:19:56 <MichaelKifer> +1
16:20:50 <Harold> RE Test cases document -- I inserted a space here: for each dialect(
16:20:51 <Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/index.php?title=Test&diff=13824&oldid=12720
16:21:27 <Harold> (wiki diff should show space changes :-)
16:21:43 <ChrisW> suggest 3rd week of oct with publication before iswx
16:21:45 <ChrisW> suggest 3rd week of oct with publication before iswc
16:22:05 <DaveReynolds> csma: for RIF-XML data target deadline would be before end of next week
16:23:59 <DaveReynolds> sandro: if documents read by 8th, could be published by 14th, hard deadline is 28th due to tech plenary  up to Oct 12th would work
16:24:06 <DaveReynolds> s/read/ready/
16:25:41 <sandro> leora out thurs/fri/sat -- absent from email -- that particular silence does NOT imply consent.
16:27:04 <DaveReynolds> sandro: expect emails from editors by Oct 8th, otherwise hassle with ensue
16:28:23 <csma> zakim, take up item 9
16:28:23 <Zakim> agendum 9. "AOB" taken up [from csma]
16:28:41 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:28:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Leora_Morgenstern, DaveReynolds, MichaelKifer, Mike_Dean, Harold, csma, APaschke, ChrisW
16:28:46 <DaveReynolds> chrisw: congratulations to everyone for hard work, and endurance!
16:28:51 <APaschke> thanks to the chairs and Sandro 
16:28:53 <sandro> thanks to everyone......!!!
16:30:00 <DaveReynolds> sandro: there will a RIF panel at ISWC, let Chris/Sandro know if you will be there
16:30:44 <sandro> mike_dean to be at ISWC
16:31:28 <Harold> http://2010.ruleml.org/
16:31:36 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has left #rif
16:31:38 <Zakim> -csma
16:31:39 <Zakim> -Leora_Morgenstern
16:31:40 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:31:41 <Zakim> -MichaelKifer
16:31:41 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
16:31:42 <Zakim> -ChrisW
16:31:46 <Zakim> -Harold
16:31:50 <ChrisW> zakim, list attendees
16:31:50 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, Leora_Morgenstern, DaveReynolds, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Mike_Dean, Harold, csma, APaschke, ChrisW
16:31:53 <Zakim> -APaschke
16:31:57 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:32:03 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
16:32:06 <DaveReynolds> Thanks Chris
16:32:12 <csma> zakim, list attendees
16:32:12 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, Leora_Morgenstern, DaveReynolds, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Mike_Dean, Harold, csma, APaschke, ChrisW
16:32:35 <csma> Oh, Chris did it all already :-)
16:32:40 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
16:32:41 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:32:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, Leora_Morgenstern, DaveReynolds, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Mike_Dean, Harold, csma, APaschke, ChrisW