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<scribe> agenda: this
agenda CandidateGap Analysis: WebSRT; WMML, Etc.
<scribe> scribe: janina
jf: Emphasize that all user reqs are reqs, however what the tech implications are is what we might profitably prioritize.
jb: Expect my and Janina's edits to the user reqs doc by
Friday
jf: We agree to drop the other two actions assigned to Judy. ...
action-32: drop
<trackbot> ACTION-32 Follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements notes added
action-43: drop
<trackbot> ACTION-43 Seek deaf-blind representation in requirements gathering process notes added
<scribe> ACTION: judy to find location for ncam extended description demos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-53 - Find location for ncam extended description demos [on Judy Brewer - due 2010-08-25].
js: We have examples of extended descriptions from NCAM that are about 10 years old and we have permission to make them available to the W3C public.
jb: I specifically asked for content we could share.
js: I confirmed that
jf: This is exciting, gives us
something to illustrate what we're talking about.
... Also, we should note that Mozilla just announced smil
support beginning next nightly build.
... Comment came from Chris Blizzard.
jb: Q to Sean and/or Eric: Is this demo helpful to you?
sh: I've built similar demo for my use. We can add as another data point.
ec: Don't think it will give me anything I don't have now, but think it will be extremely useful going forward.
<JF> Silvia: great to get these content files together not just for demos, but for testing as well
<JF> for testing the funcitionality of the browsers
<JF> Judy to follow up to ensure that Geoff's NCAM files can be used for that purpose
<silvia> ACTION: judy to follow up that NCAM files can be used in HTML5 testbed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-54 - Follow up that NCAM files can be used in HTML5 testbed [on Judy Brewer - due 2010-08-25].
<JF> Janina will secure the files and temporarily host on her personal server
sp: WebSRT is written so that it
wouldn't prevent other formats' coexistence
... has tracks similar to our previous proposed tracks
jf: are there significant difference in the track element?
sp: we were grouping
alternatives. This was deemed too complex. Sees all externals
individually, and can enable any one, or all
... very flexible now, and i don't have a problem with it.
jb: Are you saying it seems to address most of our user reqs?
jf: Will it allow us to deliver our reqs?
jb: It's a clarification.
sp: Yes.
... supports external text tracks similar to ours;
... Whether it meets all, will take more analysis, think the
answer now is "probably yes."
ec: One place it does not meet
our reqs is that it is currently restricted to text files,
mainly because that's all the spec addresses at this
point.
... Should also work for video and audio alternatives.
... I believe it's clear Ian was thinking about that.
sp: He's solving the text stuff now.
jb: Our requirements were explicit on external files?
sp: yes
jf: It's explicit that we support sign language translation, and as an external file
<silvia> (PP-4) Typically, alternative content resources are created by different entities to the ones that create the media content. They may even be in different countries and not be allowed to re-publish the other one's content. It is important to be able to host these resources separately, associate them together through the Web page author, and eventually play them back synchronously to the user.
jf: track element seems ok?
sp: minor things, but mostly good
jb: and we're still planning to create a matrix that allows to check item by item against our user reqs?
[general agreement]
js: Perhaps we should invite Ian to present WebSRT to us?
[group response, yes, in the future -- perhaps severla weeks]sp: Next thing is a javascript api
sp: we had such a proposal
... Ian's js more comprehensive than ours
... deals with integratin issues, includes dynamically created
text tracks as well as internal and external text tracks
... Seems to be a requirement for this from some people.
jf: Is that leveraging local storage? For later repurposing?
sp: I suppose you could.
sh: Who expressed this requirement?
jb: I strongly support us
capturing this to our reqs.
... Wondering if we should also capture real time video
description
sh: I'm still missing the connect that we inject via js ...
jb: There's a common use of captioning in real time
sp: I could ask how realtime
captioning is envisioned on the what list
... there are things in websrt i find problematic, such as
styling in the js
... what we have now is ian's first draft -- he usually waits
several weeks before coming back to it and incorporating
feedback
... next, websrt rendering ...
... there's spec on how to render captions and subtitles, all
that's addressed so far
... only rendering is over the top of the video
... i've started a discussion on this as this isn't adequate --
user should be able to define where the rendering occurs
jf: 3PlayMedia media player has a
two panel approach, transcript on right panel, video on
left
... word being spoken is highlighted in transcript
sp: ian's point is that this is a specialized display and authors can easily create their own display
jb: issue of caption positioning
is a common concern.
... did we sufficiently capture positioning as user
disposes?
... do we also have the highlighting?
[general agreement to explicitly state a req on highlighting in captions, transcripts, text alternatives}
sp: do we need text with audio?
jf: we've mentioned this in the past in several use cases
ec: i think this isn't quite right, you can't have caption in audio element, but you could sync text to the audio
sp: as it stands, there's no rendered video port during audio playback, but we need to provide one in the case of captioning for audio
ec: believe the current approach is put into a video element if you want captioning with audio
js: it's important that we allow third party to provide and for the user to elect for captions. this wouldn't support changing from audio to video element
jf: perfect use case here at stanford. it happens all the time
ec: but at each step of that
content development chain, somebody has to update something on
the web
... the person who makes the content available, whether
original author or third part, they have to update a web page
to point to those files
... party providing caption needs to wrap the mpeg href in
video element on the page where the captions are provided. the
source page needn't be changed.
sh: so, how do you pause audio if no visual rendering?
sp: there's a controls
attrib
... turning on controls, there's something rendered.
sh: we should also have visual if i add tracks
jf: if audio doesn't have track, it needn't display. but as soon as it has track, there should be display region
sp: i think the logic should be different ... should be based on controls
ec: if we depend on ctrols, so that displaying controls renders captions, should not also video tracks inside the file with visual media should also show?
sp: don't think so, it's put into audio element for a reason. controls should bring up controls, and caption because it's a visual descript of the audio
ec: don't agree.
js: do we have enough to meet next week?
jf: i know silvia wants to develop this further.
[agreement to meet next week]
jf: a few minutes to look at controls ...
sp: perhaps eric and i can discuss of this on list?
ec: certainly
sp: last is the websrt format
itself, not enough time today, perhaps next week?
... pros and cons of the file format itself ...
jf: also need a serious look at
ttml and at smil3
... as has been pointed out svg is using subset of smil, and as
I mentioned, mozilla is about to support smil
... we should give all these a fair analysis and review
jb: we need to not just take the
one we land on first -- we should schedule our talks through
the others, so we're complete in our review
... would like to know more about mozilla sml support
jf: absolutely
sp: if not enough people next week, perhaps we can invite ian for an intro
jf: sean, any thought of who to invite for ttml?
sh: i've been working on a doc mapping ttml -- should be ready in about a week.
[agreement that we could invite ian as soon as sep 8]
[we have sep 1 to discuss mapping matrix]
sounds right, silvia
adjourning
rrsagent make log public
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/freeplay/3PlayMedia/ Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Default Present: Judy, Janina, John_Foliot, Eric_Carlson, silvia, Sean_Hayes Present: Judy Janina John_Foliot Eric_Carlson silvia Sean_Hayes Got date from IRC log name: 18 Aug 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/08/18-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: judy WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]