See also: IRC log
<Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/altspecification
<scribe> scribe: janina
sf: We need change proposal
review by Rich and Cynthia, then
... there are a few sections that need completion following a
discussion among us.
... Let's start with updated spec doc -- Made mapping changes
from notes and memory -- Are they OK?
... Tried to include everything that had been cited as
ommited.
cs: What about merging the tables?
sf: First table supposed to semantics not overwritable
cs: Seems if we had one big table, it would meet Maciej's complaint that he couldn't find something.
<Stevef> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html
<Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5
sf: looking at <aname= --
without an href -- why a restriction?
... Also added caption. Doesn't seem it should be
restricted
cs: Text from caption might go into the name, and we should have ARIA on it because someone could make it clickable.
sf: put norole for area because it's not rendered
cs: area without rhref valid?
sf: no
cs: what if tabindex?
sf: don't know
cs: We should treat like span anything without a reason why it shouldn't be overwritten
rs: Chaas wants to map area on
top of canvas, so why not treat like a div?
... Is it overwritable?
<Stevef> If the area element has no href attribute, then the area represented by the element cannot be selected, and the alt attribute must be omitted.
sf: No, because not rendered and has no href
cs: So how is an area without
href conformant?
... Can live with either way.
... Prefer default to everything allowed.
rs: Agree
... If applied to canvas, will need aria role
sf: OK.
... Put in "elements without restrictions?"
cs: yes
rs: yes
sf: So do we agree to a single table?
cs: Yes, will be easier to read.
rs: Yes, as long as it's clear what applies where.
sf: Looking now at hgroup
...
... Overides? Which?
cs: Anything. It's a span
... My default answer, I suspect.
sf: But then we need to say why.
cs: Unless there's a good reason to limit, don't limit.
sf: th element, no column or row
header
... Is it inconsistent with our table guidance?
cs: But people repurpose them.
sf: difference between changed
and additional semantics.
... This is a clearly defined a11y element to provide info
about data tables
cs: existed before html had a11y ...
sf: But when it's overwritten then you no longer provide a11y info about the table
cs: But then what do you do when
someone puts a onclick on th--which is common, to sort for
instance
... I could wish aria were additive and not substitutional
...
sf: Concerned we shouldn't allow overwrite to turn th into a button, for instance
cs: but that's what people do
sf: OK, will go with the group
consensus, but I can't defend it.
... So, what can they be overwritten with?
rs: We don't prohibit now, right?
[Steve not happy with this ...]
sf: Most of this has been stable for months ... but now we're saying something different
rs: We said we're reviewing the whole thing
sf: the parts that are changed
cs: Think sf wants help on recent changes ...
sf: So what role allowed on table?
cs: widgets and presentation, not para
sf: But that's what I have!
rs: Take from the other direction, what roles should it not support?
cs: We need to be consistent in our logic.
sf: By that token we should treat href and all struct the same ...
rs: yes
cs: If we can come up with a rule for these -- It's the one-off's that will get us turned down
<Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5
sf: So, we're talking about
incorrect html use, is it better with aria addition, or
not?
... So, we're talking about incorrect html use, is it better
with aria addition, or not?[group going through items]
... People, please review the entire proposal and provide
comments, changes, additions ...
cs: Can I send you a word doc?
sf: yes
... We didn't finish, so will need another meeting.
... Don't know what to do with hgroup ...
cs: Heading, and refs inside presentation
sf: so now this is new
cs: There are two things here, logically it should function like a heading
sf: But new elements have a history of being misused, so it could be argued we should support best practice.
cs: If aria2 allows us to be additive, we will need to make sure we can add that to HTML5.
sf: Cynthia, can provide feedback?
cs: yes
rs: Yes, but not tonight
rrsagent make log public
rrsagent make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Default Present: Janina, [Microsoft], Rich Present: Janina [Microsoft] Rich WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 17 Aug 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/08/17-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]