IRC log of hcg on 2010-06-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:05 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/04-hcg-irc
13:59:07 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
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13:59:09 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
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ok, trackbot; I see HTML_CG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:10 [trackbot]
Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
13:59:10 [trackbot]
Date: 04 June 2010
13:59:10 [ddahl]
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13:59:21 [ChrisL]
Chair: Chris
13:59:24 [janina]
zakim, call janina
13:59:24 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
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HTML_CG()10:00AM has now started
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+Janina
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+Debbie_Dahl
14:00:10 [ChrisL]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010AprJun/0082.html
14:00:33 [ddahl]
zakim, who is here?
14:00:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, Debbie_Dahl
14:00:35 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ddahl, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, ChrisL, kaz, Steven, plinss_, shepazu, trackbot
14:00:55 [darobin]
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+ChrisL
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+Doug_Schepers
14:01:43 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34315/HCG2010telcon/results
14:02:50 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
14:02:50 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
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+Steven
14:04:28 [lofton]
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+Lofton_Henderson
14:05:19 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
14:05:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, Steven, Lofton_Henderson
14:05:21 [Zakim]
On IRC I see lofton, darobin, ddahl, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, ChrisL, kaz, Steven, plinss_, shepazu, trackbot
14:05:45 [Zakim]
+darobin
14:05:54 [Steven]
Scribe: Steven
14:07:21 [Steven]
Topic: Actions items
14:07:24 [ChrisL]
action-32?
14:07:24 [trackbot]
ACTION-32 -- Deborah Dahl to find someone to follow up on scxml implementations from KDE -- due 2010-05-14 -- OPEN
14:07:24 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/32
14:07:45 [Steven]
Debbie: The Voice browser WG keeps a list
14:07:58 [Steven]
... and that summarises all implementations
14:08:04 [Steven]
... action closed
14:08:18 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/Voice/#imp-scxml
14:08:19 [Steven]
... Also, it came up that they might like to present @@ to the HCG
14:08:28 [Steven]
s/@@/scxml
14:08:29 [ChrisL]
s/@@/SCXML/
14:08:33 [Bert]
Bert has joined #hcg
14:08:47 [Steven]
Debbie: Interested? July 16th or Aug 13
14:09:18 [Steven]
Shepazu: There is a joint TF with SVG
14:09:34 [Steven]
Debbie: I was talking about HCG not SVG
14:09:38 [Steven]
Shepazu: Sorry!
14:09:56 [Steven]
Chris: Yes, why not?
14:10:54 [Steven]
Shepazu: SVG is interested in SCXML in the context of annimation
14:11:00 [Steven]
Debbie: Email them
14:11:06 [Steven]
s/ann/an/
14:11:34 [Steven]
Debbie: Let's use July 16th for the presentation
14:11:38 [ChrisL]
Topic: Media Accessibility Requirements
14:11:52 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements
14:11:52 [janina]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements
14:12:02 [ddahl]
Jim Barnett is the editor, Jim Larson is the chair and Kazuyuki is the Activity Lead
14:12:07 [Steven]
Janina: this is in process, mostly complete
14:12:15 [Steven]
... running a survey on it
14:12:20 [janina]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results
14:12:46 [Steven]
Janina: Trying t ocollect user requirements for accessibility for audio and video
14:13:02 [Steven]
... how much do we axpect from HTML5 is the question
14:13:09 [Steven]
s/ax/ex/
14:14:24 [Steven]
Janina: If HTML5 becomes the next media platform then accessibility requirements are large
14:14:58 [Steven]
... we need to provide for the chance that it gets significant use
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14:15:16 [Zakim]
+Plh
14:15:22 [Steven]
Chris: Are these public minutes?
14:15:30 [Steven]
+1
14:15:37 [Steven]
Chris: Yes they are
14:15:44 [ChrisL]
minutes will be public
14:15:52 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:16:25 [Zakim]
-Lofton_Henderson
14:17:22 [Zakim]
+Bert
14:17:31 [Steven]
Janina: Since we weren't making progress in accessibility, then just looking at captioning and subtitling isn't sufficient (that is audio description and video description)
14:17:31 [ChrisL]
suggest the difference between captioning and subtitles be explained
14:17:43 [Zakim]
+Lofton_Henderson
14:17:55 [Steven]
Janina: So we need a full user survey of what it would take
14:18:17 [Steven]
... and be as thorough as possible
14:18:27 [Steven]
... to get all user requirements
14:18:38 [Steven]
... leading to technical requirements
14:18:54 [Steven]
... which are MUSTs and which SHOULDs, conformance, authoring, etc
14:19:16 [Steven]
Janina: The document is a mess in terms of English Language at present
14:19:20 [Steven]
... needs cleaning up
14:19:28 [Steven]
... result of many (wiki) authors
14:19:40 [Steven]
... we are nearly there with user requirements
14:19:54 [Steven]
... about to start on technical requirements
14:21:07 [Steven]
... most of what is here has been well vetted and implemented
14:22:15 [Steven]
Janina: THe first section is an overview
14:22:20 [Steven]
s/TH/Th/
14:23:01 [Steven]
... section 2 is typesd of technology
14:23:05 [Steven]
s/sd/s/
14:24:23 [Steven]
... there are rules in captioning about which information is useful
14:24:54 [Steven]
... describing what you could see, and is essential to understanding
14:25:19 [Steven]
... there are movie theatres equipped with this
14:25:32 [Steven]
... and hear a track with audio description
14:25:54 [Steven]
... WHen it was first introduced for TV, people stopped me on the street to tell me about it
14:25:59 [Steven]
s/WH/Wh/
14:26:07 [Steven]
... used on TV
14:26:46 [Steven]
... then Texted audio descritpion
14:26:52 [Steven]
s/tp/pt/
14:27:05 [Steven]
... then extended descritpion
14:27:26 [Steven]
... for instance for lectures; you would pause the video, and listen to the extended description
14:28:17 [Steven]
Janina: Next is clear audio, for people with hearing disabilities (not deafness)
14:29:44 [shepazu]
[I would benefit from this, I think]
14:29:56 [Steven]
[Scribe not scribing things that are in the doc, other than titles]
14:30:34 [Steven]
JChris: This is a new way of presenting the audio? No requirement that all media is clear?
14:30:38 [Steven]
s/J//
14:30:42 [Steven]
Janina: Correct
14:31:07 [Steven]
... next, Structured content navigation
14:32:12 [Steven]
... books replaced scrolls, and therefore introduced new types of content structuring
14:32:26 [Steven]
... probavly new media will have a similar effect
14:32:33 [Steven]
s/vly/bly/
14:32:43 [Steven]
... DAISY working in this field
14:33:12 [Steven]
... there are examples of books where you don't start necessarily at the beginning
14:33:17 [Steven]
... (eg cookbooks)
14:33:52 [Steven]
... therefore forward and rewind/next and previous can be useful
14:35:09 [Steven]
... and it is good to be able to control the granularity of forward and back
14:37:04 [Steven]
Janina: next, captioning for the deaf and very hard of hearing
14:37:14 [Steven]
... mandated in the US since 1988
14:37:35 [Steven]
... good spillover into mainstream use, such as in noisy bars
14:37:53 [Steven]
... similar to subtitles
14:38:00 [Steven]
... but subtitles are translations
14:38:22 [Steven]
... captioning also captures sounds like gunshots
14:38:48 [Steven]
... which might be annoying in subtitles
14:39:23 [Steven]
... There may be more space needed for captioning than the timeline allows
14:39:35 [Steven]
... therefore you need extended captions
14:40:15 [Steven]
Shepazu: You could use the same mechanism, with different levels, is that what you mean?
14:40:18 [Steven]
Janina: Yes
14:40:42 [Steven]
... this is my idea, not subject to consensus yet
14:41:02 [Steven]
Janina: Next, Sign Translation
14:41:19 [Steven]
... someone on screen waving their arms
14:41:35 [Steven]
... problems with the difference between different regional signing
14:42:18 [Steven]
Janina: Next, transcripts
14:42:24 [Steven]
... suggested by Microsoft
14:42:59 [Steven]
Janina: Next, System Requirements
14:43:08 [Steven]
... keyboard access
14:43:16 [Steven]
... don't require a pointer
14:44:13 [Steven]
... next, Granularity Level Control for Structural Navigation, which I discussed earlier
14:44:39 [Steven]
... next, Time Scale Modification, comes from DAISY
14:44:54 [Steven]
... adjusting playback speed
14:45:30 [Steven]
... I think slowing things down will be a mainstream hit
14:46:00 [Steven]
... for instane for people living in language environments that are not their mother tongue.
14:46:14 [Steven]
s/stane/stance/
14:46:52 [Steven]
Janina: Production practice
14:47:01 [Steven]
... mainly authoring, no spec effects
14:47:44 [Steven]
... Discovery and activation
14:47:58 [Steven]
... for alternative content
14:49:18 [Steven]
Janina: use of the viewport
14:49:23 [Steven]
... for swapping between media
14:49:44 [Steven]
... parallel use of alternate content on potentially multiple devices in parallel
14:50:29 [Steven]
... and that's about it
14:50:34 [Steven]
... glad to hear of things we forgot
14:50:48 [Steven]
Shepazu: Seem to be good cases, I appreciate it
14:51:08 [Steven]
Janina: Next steps, MUSTs and SHOULDs and tech requirements
14:51:25 [Steven]
... some parts may need SMIL2
14:51:38 [Steven]
... other parts OK in current browsers
14:51:47 [Steven]
... small devices are an interesting case
14:52:03 [Steven]
... might be "if you support this, then you must do this"
14:52:22 [Steven]
ShepazU: Have you looked at things like GOogle TV?
14:52:33 [Steven]
Janina: I do refer to it
14:52:41 [Steven]
s/U/u/
14:52:46 [Steven]
s/O/o
14:53:13 [shepazu]
s/things like GOogle TV?/IPTV, like Google TV?/
14:53:16 [Steven]
Janina: I think this is a major opportunity to get good accessibility in the future
14:54:00 [shepazu]
s/IPTV, like Google TV?/IPTV, and set-top boxes like Google TV?/
14:54:01 [Steven]
... there is a refresh going on to 508, about use in the government and public-facing websites
14:54:08 [Steven]
... and another for telephones and TVs
14:54:13 [Steven]
... not sure if it covers the internet
14:54:22 [shepazu]
q+
14:54:27 [Steven]
... logins may be required, but maybe not content
14:54:44 [ChrisL]
ack she
14:55:34 [Steven]
Shepazu: Have you reached out to companies who do these things, to see if they want to participate, and have you looked at IP issues?
14:55:47 [Steven]
Janina: Royalty-free should be OK
14:55:58 [Steven]
... not sure about clear audio
14:56:26 [Steven]
... we have engaged companies, like DIASY
14:56:30 [Steven]
s/IA/AI
14:57:09 [Steven]
Shepazu: Getting the right people involved provides a strong argument
14:58:08 [Steven]
Janina: We may not have enough involvement on API issues
14:59:30 [Steven]
Shepazu: IPTV people, like Samsung; Philips; Google TV, settop boxes makers, video games consoles, they don't need to be Web people per se, but could benefit from the tech
14:59:35 [Steven]
Janina: Good siggestions
14:59:40 [Steven]
s/sigg/sugg/
15:01:12 [Steven]
Janina: We complained about Web SRT, because it didn't have consensus
15:01:25 [plh]
q+
15:01:59 [Steven]
Shepazu: I think that GOogle TV will be a friend of yours
15:02:03 [Steven]
s/O/o/
15:02:12 [Steven]
plh: Prioritization?
15:02:41 [Steven]
Janina: not the right course. Boil the user reqs to tech reqs, and then decide on MUST, SHOULD, conditional, etc
15:03:05 [Steven]
... it must be in the spec first
15:03:33 [Steven]
Shepazu: We need IP commitments on MUSTs
15:03:42 [Steven]
Janina: Many we have already
15:03:53 [Steven]
... the question is whether we need SMIL2 or can we do it with less.
15:03:53 [ChrisL]
q?
15:03:58 [ChrisL]
ack plh
15:03:58 [Steven]
ack plh
15:04:37 [Steven]
Janina: If something is a SHOULD, maybe we can rely on plugin technologies
15:05:07 [Steven]
... few pieces of content will have all alternatives
15:05:26 [shepazu]
s/We need IP commitments on MUSTs/You might consider developing the formats rather than simply providing a guideline spec, so we can get RF licenses on MUSTs, and so it is clearer to implementers what they should do/
15:06:15 [Steven]
Chris: [scribe missed]
15:06:20 [Steven]
Janina: Good point
15:06:33 [Steven]
Chris: Great run through document, thanks!
15:06:59 [Steven]
Topic: AOB
15:07:00 [Steven]
Shepazu: The audio incubator group has laiunched
15:07:08 [Steven]
... please contact me for details
15:07:10 [ChrisL]
s/[scribe missed]/Please tell the story about progressive use of acessibility stuff rather than all-or-nothing
15:07:38 [Steven]
Robin: Privacy workshop in London mid July, position papers are due Monday
15:07:44 [Steven]
... please submit!
15:07:46 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/audio/wiki
15:07:47 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/audio/
15:08:07 [Zakim]
-Plh
15:08:09 [Zakim]
-darobin
15:08:09 [Steven]
[ADJOURN]
15:08:11 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
15:08:13 [Zakim]
-Lofton_Henderson
15:08:13 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
15:08:15 [Zakim]
-Janina
15:08:17 [Zakim]
-Steven
15:08:19 [Zakim]
-Debbie_Dahl
15:08:36 [Zakim]
-Bert
15:08:38 [Zakim]
HTML_CG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Janina, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, Steven, Lofton_Henderson, darobin, Plh, Bert
15:08:59 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:08:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/04-hcg-minutes.html Steven
15:09:05 [janina]
janina has left #hcg
15:09:20 [Steven]
ack
15:10:12 [Steven]
Regrets: Daniel_Glazman
15:11:24 [Steven]
s/t ocollect/to collect/
15:13:21 [Steven]
s/things like Google TV?/IPTV, and set-top boxes like Google TV?/
15:13:59 [Steven]
s/acessibility/accessibility/
15:14:16 [Steven]
s/laiunched/launched
15:14:29 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:14:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/04-hcg-minutes.html Steven
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