13:59:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcg
13:59:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/04-hcg-irc
13:59:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
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13:59:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
13:59:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_CG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
13:59:10 <trackbot> Date: 04 June 2010
13:59:10 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #hcg
13:59:21 <ChrisL> Chair: Chris
13:59:24 <janina> zakim, call janina
13:59:24 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
13:59:25 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has now started
13:59:27 <Zakim> +Janina
13:59:52 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
14:00:10 <ChrisL> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010AprJun/0082.html
14:00:33 <ddahl> zakim, who is here?
14:00:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, Debbie_Dahl
14:00:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see ddahl, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, ChrisL, kaz, Steven, plinss_, shepazu, trackbot
14:00:55 <darobin> darobin has joined #hcg
14:01:05 <Zakim> +ChrisL
14:01:36 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
14:01:43 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34315/HCG2010telcon/results
14:02:50 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:02:50 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:02:52 <Zakim> +Steven
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14:05:16 <Zakim> +Lofton_Henderson
14:05:19 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
14:05:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, Steven, Lofton_Henderson
14:05:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see lofton, darobin, ddahl, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, ChrisL, kaz, Steven, plinss_, shepazu, trackbot
14:05:45 <Zakim> +darobin
14:05:54 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
14:07:21 <Steven> Topic: Actions items
14:07:24 <ChrisL> action-32?
14:07:24 <trackbot> ACTION-32 -- Deborah Dahl to find someone to follow up on scxml implementations from KDE -- due 2010-05-14 -- OPEN
14:07:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/32
14:07:45 <Steven> Debbie: The Voice browser WG keeps a list
14:07:58 <Steven> ... and that summarises all implementations
14:08:04 <Steven> ... action closed
14:08:18 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/Voice/#imp-scxml
14:08:19 <Steven> ... Also, it came up that they might like to present @@ to the HCG
14:08:28 <Steven> s/@@/scxml
14:08:29 <ChrisL> s/@@/SCXML/
14:08:33 <Bert> Bert has joined #hcg
14:08:47 <Steven> Debbie: Interested? July 16th or Aug 13
14:09:18 <Steven> Shepazu: There is a joint TF with SVG
14:09:34 <Steven> Debbie: I was talking about HCG not SVG
14:09:38 <Steven> Shepazu: Sorry!
14:09:56 <Steven> Chris: Yes, why not?
14:10:54 <Steven> Shepazu: SVG is interested in SCXML in the context of annimation
14:11:00 <Steven> Debbie: Email them
14:11:06 <Steven> s/ann/an/
14:11:34 <Steven> Debbie: Let's use July 16th for the presentation
14:11:38 <ChrisL> Topic: Media Accessibility Requirements 
14:11:52 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements
14:11:52 <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements
14:12:02 <ddahl> Jim Barnett is the editor, Jim Larson is the chair and Kazuyuki is the Activity Lead
14:12:07 <Steven> Janina: this is in process, mostly complete
14:12:15 <Steven> ... running a survey on it
14:12:20 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results
14:12:46 <Steven> Janina: Trying t ocollect user requirements for accessibility for audio and video
14:13:02 <Steven> ... how much do we axpect from HTML5 is the question
14:13:09 <Steven> s/ax/ex/
14:14:24 <Steven> Janina: If HTML5 becomes the next media platform then accessibility requirements are large
14:14:58 <Steven> ... we need to provide for the chance that it gets significant use
14:15:05 <plh> plh has joined #hcg
14:15:16 <Zakim> +Plh
14:15:22 <Steven> Chris: Are these public minutes?
14:15:30 <Steven> +1
14:15:37 <Steven> Chris: Yes they are
14:15:44 <ChrisL> minutes will be public
14:15:52 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
14:16:25 <Zakim> -Lofton_Henderson
14:17:22 <Zakim> +Bert
14:17:31 <Steven> Janina: Since we weren't making progress in accessibility, then just looking at captioning and subtitling isn't sufficient (that is audio description and video description)
14:17:31 <ChrisL> suggest the difference between captioning and subtitles be explained
14:17:43 <Zakim> +Lofton_Henderson
14:17:55 <Steven> Janina: So we need a full user survey of what it would take
14:18:17 <Steven> ... and be as thorough as possible
14:18:27 <Steven> ... to get all user requirements
14:18:38 <Steven> ... leading to technical requirements
14:18:54 <Steven> ... which are MUSTs and which SHOULDs, conformance, authoring, etc
14:19:16 <Steven> Janina: The document is a mess in terms of English Language at present
14:19:20 <Steven> ... needs cleaning up
14:19:28 <Steven> ... result of many (wiki) authors
14:19:40 <Steven> ... we are nearly there with user requirements
14:19:54 <Steven> ... about to start on technical requirements
14:21:07 <Steven> ... most of what is here has been well vetted and implemented
14:22:15 <Steven> Janina: THe first section is an overview
14:22:20 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
14:23:01 <Steven> ... section 2 is typesd of technology
14:23:05 <Steven> s/sd/s/
14:24:23 <Steven> ... there are rules in captioning about which information is useful
14:24:54 <Steven> ... describing what you could see, and is essential to understanding
14:25:19 <Steven> ... there are movie theatres equipped with this
14:25:32 <Steven> ... and hear a track with audio description
14:25:54 <Steven> ... WHen it was first introduced for TV, people stopped me on the street to tell me about it
14:25:59 <Steven> s/WH/Wh/
14:26:07 <Steven> ... used on TV
14:26:46 <Steven> ... then Texted audio descritpion
14:26:52 <Steven> s/tp/pt/
14:27:05 <Steven> ... then extended descritpion
14:27:26 <Steven> ... for instance for lectures; you would pause the video, and listen to the extended description
14:28:17 <Steven> Janina: Next is clear audio, for people with hearing disabilities (not deafness)
14:29:44 <shepazu> [I would benefit from this, I think]
14:29:56 <Steven> [Scribe not scribing things that are in the doc, other than titles]
14:30:34 <Steven> JChris: This is a new way of presenting the audio? No requirement that all media is clear?
14:30:38 <Steven> s/J//
14:30:42 <Steven> Janina: Correct
14:31:07 <Steven> ... next, Structured content navigation
14:32:12 <Steven> ... books replaced scrolls, and therefore introduced new types of content structuring
14:32:26 <Steven> ... probavly new media will have a similar effect
14:32:33 <Steven> s/vly/bly/
14:32:43 <Steven> ... DAISY working in this field
14:33:12 <Steven> ... there are examples of books where you don't start necessarily at the beginning
14:33:17 <Steven> ... (eg cookbooks)
14:33:52 <Steven> ... therefore forward and rewind/next and previous can be useful
14:35:09 <Steven> ... and it is good to be able to control the granularity of forward and back
14:37:04 <Steven> Janina: next, captioning for the deaf and very hard of hearing
14:37:14 <Steven> ... mandated in the US since 1988
14:37:35 <Steven> ... good spillover into mainstream use, such as in noisy bars
14:37:53 <Steven> ... similar to subtitles
14:38:00 <Steven> ... but subtitles are translations
14:38:22 <Steven> ... captioning also captures sounds like gunshots
14:38:48 <Steven> ... which might be annoying in subtitles
14:39:23 <Steven> ... There may be more space needed for captioning than the timeline allows
14:39:35 <Steven> ... therefore you need extended captions
14:40:15 <Steven> Shepazu: You could use the same mechanism, with different levels, is that what you mean?
14:40:18 <Steven> Janina: Yes
14:40:42 <Steven> ... this is my idea, not subject to consensus yet
14:41:02 <Steven> Janina: Next, Sign Translation
14:41:19 <Steven> ... someone on screen waving their arms
14:41:35 <Steven> ... problems with the difference between different regional signing
14:42:18 <Steven> Janina: Next, transcripts
14:42:24 <Steven> ... suggested by Microsoft
14:42:59 <Steven> Janina: Next, System Requirements
14:43:08 <Steven> ... keyboard access
14:43:16 <Steven> ... don't require a pointer
14:44:13 <Steven> ... next, Granularity Level Control for Structural Navigation, which I discussed earlier
14:44:39 <Steven> ... next, Time Scale Modification, comes from DAISY
14:44:54 <Steven> ... adjusting playback speed
14:45:30 <Steven> ... I think slowing things down will be a mainstream hit
14:46:00 <Steven> ... for instane for people living in language environments that are not their mother tongue.
14:46:14 <Steven> s/stane/stance/
14:46:52 <Steven> Janina: Production practice
14:47:01 <Steven> ... mainly authoring, no spec effects
14:47:44 <Steven> ... Discovery and activation
14:47:58 <Steven> ... for alternative content
14:49:18 <Steven> Janina: use of the viewport
14:49:23 <Steven> ... for swapping between media
14:49:44 <Steven> ... parallel use of alternate content on potentially multiple devices in parallel
14:50:29 <Steven> ... and that's about it
14:50:34 <Steven> ... glad to hear of things we forgot
14:50:48 <Steven> Shepazu: Seem to be good cases, I appreciate it
14:51:08 <Steven> Janina: Next steps, MUSTs and SHOULDs and tech requirements
14:51:25 <Steven> ... some parts may need SMIL2
14:51:38 <Steven> ... other parts OK in current browsers
14:51:47 <Steven> ... small devices are an interesting case
14:52:03 <Steven> ... might be "if you support this, then you must do this"
14:52:22 <Steven> ShepazU: Have you looked at things like GOogle TV?
14:52:33 <Steven> Janina: I do refer to it
14:52:41 <Steven> s/U/u/
14:52:46 <Steven> s/O/o
14:53:13 <shepazu> s/things like GOogle TV?/IPTV, like Google TV?/
14:53:16 <Steven> Janina: I think this is a major opportunity to get good accessibility in the future
14:54:00 <shepazu> s/IPTV, like Google TV?/IPTV, and set-top boxes like Google TV?/
14:54:01 <Steven> ... there is a refresh going on to 508, about use in the government and public-facing websites
14:54:08 <Steven> ... and another for telephones and TVs
14:54:13 <Steven> ... not sure if it covers the internet
14:54:22 <shepazu> q+
14:54:27 <Steven> ... logins may be required, but maybe not content
14:54:44 <ChrisL> ack she
14:55:34 <Steven> Shepazu: Have you reached out to companies who do these things, to see if they want to participate, and have you looked at IP issues?
14:55:47 <Steven> Janina: Royalty-free should be OK
14:55:58 <Steven> ... not sure about clear audio
14:56:26 <Steven> ... we have engaged companies, like DIASY
14:56:30 <Steven> s/IA/AI
14:57:09 <Steven> Shepazu: Getting the right people involved provides a strong argument
14:58:08 <Steven> Janina: We may not have enough involvement on API issues
14:59:30 <Steven> Shepazu: IPTV people, like Samsung; Philips; Google TV, settop boxes makers, video games consoles, they don't need to be Web people per se, but could benefit from the tech
14:59:35 <Steven> Janina: Good siggestions
14:59:40 <Steven> s/sigg/sugg/
15:01:12 <Steven> Janina: We complained about Web SRT, because it didn't have consensus
15:01:25 <plh> q+
15:01:59 <Steven> Shepazu: I think that GOogle TV will be a friend of yours
15:02:03 <Steven> s/O/o/
15:02:12 <Steven> plh: Prioritization?
15:02:41 <Steven> Janina: not the right course. Boil the user reqs to tech reqs, and then decide on MUST, SHOULD, conditional, etc
15:03:05 <Steven> ... it must be in the spec first
15:03:33 <Steven> Shepazu: We need IP commitments on MUSTs
15:03:42 <Steven> Janina: Many we have already
15:03:53 <Steven> ... the question is whether we need SMIL2 or can we do it with less.
15:03:53 <ChrisL> q?
15:03:58 <ChrisL> ack plh
15:03:58 <Steven> ack plh
15:04:37 <Steven> Janina: If something is a SHOULD, maybe we can rely on plugin technologies
15:05:07 <Steven> ... few pieces of content will have all alternatives
15:05:26 <shepazu> s/We need IP commitments on MUSTs/You might consider developing the formats rather than simply providing a guideline spec, so we can get RF licenses on MUSTs, and so it is clearer to implementers what they should do/
15:06:15 <Steven> Chris: [scribe missed]
15:06:20 <Steven> Janina: Good point
15:06:33 <Steven> Chris: Great run through document, thanks!
15:06:59 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:07:00 <Steven> Shepazu: The audio incubator group has laiunched
15:07:08 <Steven> ... please contact me for details
15:07:10 <ChrisL> s/[scribe missed]/Please tell the story about progressive use of acessibility stuff rather than all-or-nothing
15:07:38 <Steven> Robin: Privacy workshop in London mid July, position papers are due Monday
15:07:44 <Steven> ... please submit!
15:07:46 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/audio/wiki
15:07:47 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/audio/
15:08:07 <Zakim> -Plh
15:08:09 <Zakim> -darobin
15:08:09 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
15:08:11 <Zakim> -ChrisL
15:08:13 <Zakim> -Lofton_Henderson
15:08:13 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
15:08:15 <Zakim> -Janina
15:08:17 <Zakim> -Steven
15:08:19 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
15:08:36 <Zakim> -Bert
15:08:38 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has ended
15:08:40 <Zakim> Attendees were Janina, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, Doug_Schepers, Steven, Lofton_Henderson, darobin, Plh, Bert
15:08:59 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:08:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/04-hcg-minutes.html Steven
15:09:05 <janina> janina has left #hcg
15:09:20 <Steven> ack
15:10:12 <Steven> Regrets: Daniel_Glazman
15:11:24 <Steven> s/t ocollect/to collect/
15:13:21 <Steven> s/things like Google TV?/IPTV, and set-top boxes like Google TV?/
15:13:59 <Steven> s/acessibility/accessibility/
15:14:16 <Steven> s/laiunched/launched
15:14:29 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:14:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/04-hcg-minutes.html Steven
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